Jay 37,475 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 As we've done in the past for other big movies, it's time for the SPOILERS ALLOWED DISCUSSION THREAD for The Force Awakens.The movie had its premiere tonight and its opening wide soon in some European countries. Soon twitter and Facebook and other places will be abuzz with people discussing the movie. I want people to still be able to come to JWFan before they get to see the movie and not be spoiled.If you see the movie and want to post thoughts in the main thread for the film or the Last Film You Watched thread feel free, but please do not put any spoilers in those places.Meanwhile, in this thread, feel free to openly discuss the entire movie without spoiler tags.OK, this is the last chance for people wanting to avoid spoilers to turn away!Have fun everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,652 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 How do you think fans will react to Luby's death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 How do you think fans will react to Luby's death?If there's a worldwide shortage of lube, I'm devastated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 No lube makes it a rough way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,334 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 WOW the first 2 minutes are online!!! Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Great to see the Fox logo's triumphant return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymenard 54 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 It's a lazy script, but do we blame Kasdan or the exec suits at Disney for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 We blame Conrad Pope. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,489 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Were we expecting them to do anything other than play it relatively safe?Star Wars never had much potential to go anywhere in terms of the stories and characters, as far as I can tell. It's simple stories about good vs. evil. The only variation on it was having a fall from grace in the first half of the story and greying up the characters a bit. Maybe the only hope for something really exceptional will be the spin-off movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,602 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Personally, I don't mind too much that the story ingredients are very similar to A NEW HOPE. It's like with most 'family sagas' or other mythologies -- these things tend to go in circles to some extent. A lot of the mythology of the original trilogy is also mirrored in the prequels. It's HOW you do it that becomes the attraction. Scarpia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Personally, I don't mind too much that the story ingredients are very similar to A NEW HOPE. It's like with most 'family sagas' or other mythologies -- these things tend to go in circles to some extent. A lot of the mythology of the original trilogy is also mirrored in the prequels. Muad'Dib 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Roses are redWololoRoses are blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,991 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Saw the film tonight.I didn't like it. For me, what killed it is the overall approach of remaking ANH (with elements of TESB and ROTJ thrown in). It truly has most, if not all, of the same plot elements and story beats to the point it becomes embarrassing, very much like Abrams did in the last Star Trek film with Wrath of Khan.Overall, I think it's an enjoyable action/adventure film done with humor and wit, with the best technical prowess Hollywood can offer. It has some nice classic SW elements that will probably make you feel very nostalgic, but overall the magic is really long gone, sorry. Nothing can replicate that genius spark from 1977. Better accept it and move on. Will Tasker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 How were the performances and the dialogue? Particularly how was good ol' Harry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Ford wanted to be there and it made me feel warm inside. jwalk713 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post #SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted December 16, 2015 Star Wars: Episode VII - The Steef AwakensSimply put....Star Wars lives again!Because it really was dead for me. I wanted to believe The Phantom Menace was good, but it really wasnt. I wanted to believe it was just a fluke and Attack Of The Clones would set things right....it didnt. I had no hope for Revenge Of The Sith, but I saw it anyway. It was a joyless obligation. Like visiting a dying relative that you dont really have any connection to.The original trilogy was above everything else fun. Exhilarating, adventurous, funny really a brilliant cinematic experience.JJ, Kasdan, Kennedy etc come as close to that as I would have dared to hope. Within no time I was gripped and entertained until the credits finished.Unsurprisingly the film leans heavily towards the OT rather then the prequels. The story is essentially a reworking of Star Wars. Droid with info stored inside him that needs to be brought to the rebels. befriending the desert dweller. A powerful planet base which can destroy whole planets (this time from extreme distances), a mysterious figure in black with power of the Force etc etc...Essentially the film is of two minds. telling a story contained to a single film (the Starkiller stuff) and introducing characters, arcs, locations etc for the new franchise.This doesnt always mesh well as the two agenda's occasionally clash. But never to a degree that I found it annoying.JJ';s direction is broadly similar to his work on Star Trek, but it feels more at home here. He certainly knows this franchise by heart, knows how it should look and feel, which is something Lucas lost along the way.Yes it's a modern 2015 film with modern camerework and editing. But it feels like it belongs in the same universe as the 1977, 1980 and 1983 films.What helps with that enormously is the presence of some characters from the OT.Harrison Ford returns as Han Solo, and really does return as Han Solo! He looks older, naturally. But still energetic, charming in great shape and ...just right!He's in it for much of the second half of the film. This isnt a cameo and Ford really seems to enjoy being back (Kasdan really knows how to write for him I guess)Carrie Fisher is in it far less, has less to do, but actually also manages to recreate a character she played decades ago. Her scenes with Ford have actual depth in them, more due to the performances then the actual dialogue.Chewie is also back and it really is like he never left. Same as the droids.Now for the new cast...Unlike star wars, which didnt introduce a character before the already established ones met them TFA first introduces us to Poe, who is important in the first parts, but completely disappears until he's needed near the end of it. We see Finn and Rey's stories and the film alternates between them till they eventually meet.JJ usually casts well and that's certainly the case here. John Bodega is good as the former Stormtrooper who deserts. Daisy Ridley is superb as Rey, the Luke replacement of this film, though they try to hide it for a while.Adam Driver makes for a decent villain, with and without mask. I'm guessing they made him a hothead to distinguish him from Vader, who was always cool and in control. All these characters are interesting and there are hints of back stories that will naturally be fleshed out in future movies.The special effects are really superb. This is hardly unexpected, but needs to be stated. It does feel tangible and real.The music.Well...it's excellent. Inspired use of themes from the OT. Some very good new themes. Good action music. Drama, suspense. I want this CD!Some really nice uses of The Force Theme, which is essentially the central theme of this saga.So is it all brilliant?No, of course not.The story is essentially nothing more then a redo of Star Wars, with a generous sauce of audience recognition poured over it to make that more acceptable.However Star Wars was a very simple and linear story, which went from A to B to C in a very orderly manner. TFA however shoves a bunch of new characters and situations into it which diluted that linear clarity. In essence it feels like it's Star wars and The Empire Strikes Back playing at the same time. Which is a bad thing perse, but at times the logistics of what was going on wasnt as clear as it maybe should be.Also...a bigger then ever Death Star, with a vulnerable spot right on the service for fighters to shoot at.... Again...The desert planet is called Jakku, but it might has well have been called Tatooine.Actually the film seems eager to recreate every environment from the OT, because we get Hoth like snow scenes and Endor forest locations too.TFA doesnt really create any kind of new environment.The film is desperate to please fans of the OT, and very often does very well. (Hey, I cheered like everyone when the Falcon suddenly turned up in a Jakku junk yard), but really does so with the subtlety of a brick. Anything from Finn unearthing Luke's training drone, to accidentally switching on that chess game on the Falcon. I personally didnt mind the obviousness of it, but it could have been toned down a tad.The ending!Which depending on your point of view is breathtaking, or a fucking cop-out.I wonder how people in 1980 reacted to the ending of TESB? Some will have uttered WTF! loudly in the cinema, I'm sure.And I'm sure some will do so with The Force Awakens.Despite being a far from perfect film I really loved it. In a year full of redo's of old franchises, where really only Mad Mad: Fury Road stood out from anything Star Wars: The Force Awakens really delivers on what it promises, and maybe does a bit more.Star Wars is fun again! Star Wars is just a little bit special again (which won't last, because Disney will churns these out like the Marvel ones)The Force will be with us....always! Joni Wiljami, Incanus and Not Mr. Big 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,475 Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 FYI, you're welcome to post spoiler-free thoughts in the main Ep 7 and/or Last Film You Watched threads as well if you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Yes, I know.It's not like I've been gone forever you know!Sigh...Some ruminations.Story wise this film takes the opposite approach of the Prequels, which was full of exposition that carefully...explained...every...fucking...thing...So the film doesn't give any careful explanation of how the First Order seized control and why they oppose the Republic. They are simply the new evil. Like the Sith in the Prequels, the Empire in the OT...With the exception of a single mention of the Sith, TFA really does ignore of disregard the Prequels.The film doesnt have anything that goes against them though, since they are still part of the canon.Supreme Leader Snoke seems to be the "new" Palpatine, which would go against the "always there are two" philosophy of the Sith as introduced in TPM, but we will have to see how it plays out.I wondered why Luke has a metal hand now?Another new concept is that the Force can be used to extract information from people. Kylo Ren uses it on Poe, and tries to on Rey.IIn Star Wars Vader used torture to try and extract information from Leia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I agree with most of your review, both regarding the film's qualities and flaws.Supreme Leader Snoke seems to be the "new" Palpatine, which would go against the "always there are two" philosophy of the SithHow so? There are two here: Snoke and Kylo.By the way: I thought Snoke was one of the weaker aspects of the film. His introduction was too fast (keeping him in the shadows would have been more effective, methinks), and added yet another villain to a film which already had too many (Ren, Hux, Phasma). Maybe they should have kept his introduction for Episode VIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 But...but...if Palpatine died, and Vader...that would be the end of the Sith, since there is no third one.But Snoke and Ren may not be the Sith.Trust me, fans will worry about this!I agree that the film has a few too many villains. Phasma was totally wasted.Btw, The Rebel Blockade Fanfare is now officially the theme for the Falcon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 It wouldnt surprise me. It goes with the whole The Force is strong in our family vibe that this film is rocking.I wonder if all Jakkuu scavengers have posh English accents Scarpia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 So Luke's kids, and the rest of his family, got stranded on Jakku and were abducted by some gang?No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Why not? Luke got dumped on Tatooine decades earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Another thing worth mentioning: I quite like the new lightsaber fighting style! Feels very raw, clearly showing that the characters using them are amateurs!Yes! A change from the ultra acrobatics of the PrequelsAnyone think that all the stuff with the traders and the Rathtars went on too long? It's nice seeing Han back as a smuggler, but at that point the film needed to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I can agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Tasker 21 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 It sucks being right all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 You lost me at the "At least James Cameron understands how stories work" line.Cameron is a fantastic director but a very mediocre and obvious writer.Yoda's voice in Rey's vision, dream whatever. It was OK, but felt too obviously pulled from the OT. Why would she hear Yoda's voice anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I'm guessing that vision is the future. Looks exiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Always in motion the future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 So, based on what I have read here and in some basic reviews, the whole movie is a nostalgia fest made by a fan for fans, where every character has acorresponding character in the OT, and where every situation has a corresponding situation in the OT. What about originality? Another Death Star. The one inROTJ was redundant enough already. And what about the First Order? Just sprang out of nothing? If so, that is a very lost opportunity for political and historicalcommentary. Perhaps the next two films will rectify this somewhat. Will Tasker and The Illustrious Jerry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 ROTJ was redundant enough already. And what about the First Order? Just sprang out of nothing? If so, that is a very lost opportunity for political and historicalcommentary. Perhaps the next two films will rectify this somewhat. Unlike the Prequels the OT was never big on political commentary or historical context. So I'm not surprised the new film follows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 If the charm and spark of the OT could be combined with a streamlined version of the prequels' political commentary, the result would be a very good movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 TFA still is a very good movie, just not original in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 WilliamHorne97 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Kylo Ren seems to resemble Anakin more then Darth Vader when it comes to his character (to me the two are completely different characters) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 TFA still is a very good movie, just not original in any way.I'm sure it is. But, maybe it could have been AFI Top 100 good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Why does Star Wars needs political allegory anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Since we now know Kylo Ren is a name that he adopted, I wonder does it stand for anything? Is Kylo a title instead of a first name, like Darth was?The fact that the character isnt called Darth Kylo Ren or Darth Ren might point to him and Snook not truly being Sith lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Ren is my best friend, so it was actually quite funny hearing that name throughout the film.But Han called him Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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