Jump to content
John

Star Wars Disenchantment

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Ooh, ignored by @Mattris 

 

 

original.gif

 

It's not that bad, trust me!

 

This whole back-and-forth is merely under the veneer of civility: the underlying tone is frankly, as constantly being revealed with such eye-boingers as the one quoted by @Demodex above, disgusting. The manner in which they conduct themselves is superficial. 

 

 

I know it's really hard to resist responding to something as dickish and offensive as that, but really, as has been said repeatedly, we must do as Charles Halloway does in the ending of Something Wicked This Way Comes: starve the villain, deprive it of its nutrients.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Mattris said:

 

50% of Star Wars fans will skip Episode 9 in the theaters... in order to make their point: they strongly dislike Disney/Lucasfilm's handling of the franchise and don't appreciate being insulted or dehumanized after expressing disappointment. Solo made 65% less than Rogue One, so why is my prediction "absurd and extremely stupid"?

 

 

We are engaging in civil debate, @Arpy. Do not call me a troll again. Any further uses of this word towards me will result in me ignoring your posts.

 

That long list of ridiculous events in the TLJ were "addressed" - but not excused... and are major issues to many fans. Add in Lucasfilm's subsequent behavior, and the fans are divided. The fact that there were so many un-StarWarsy things in TLJ supports my theory that Rian Johnson knew he was making a divisive film... oh, and the fact that he stated on camera that he likes making movies in which "half the audience will walk out of the movie saying its the worst movie they've ever seen".

 

Luke died without having left the island... without the audience being told why he gave up after making one mistake. And considering that the Finn's self-sacrifice attempt was foiled by Rose, Luke wouldn't have needed to use his Force-projection powers with the First Order's door-destroying weapon destroyed. The specific way these events transpired makes it very clear that Johnson was screwing with the audience. Luke Skywalker died by suicide. What an utter disgrace to his character by Rian Johnson, who shouldn't be let within 100 miles of any future Star Wars productions, much less be given a trilogy.

 

 

Rian Johnson publicly admitting to mocking a Star Wars fan and Youtuber. This just adds fuel to the boycott fire.

 

 

When Luke threw away his lightsaber in front of the Emperor, it was to proclaim to him that he had become a Jedi. He knew he stood no chance at defeating the Emperor, so indeed, his actions then were "defiance and a refusal to fight." What distinguishes this event from the lightsaber tossing in TLJ is how it happened. After looking longingly at the girl who had presented him his original lightsaber, he proceeded to toss it over his shoulder - over a cliff - and walk by her without a single word.

 

If Luke was to refuse the lightsaber, he could have simply tossed the lightsaber aside or at her feet... or just given it back to her without a word. Playing that dramatic moment as comedy was extremely off-putting and aggressively disrespectful of the fans' expectations.

 

 

... even though Finn and Poe are not 'white'. Generally speaking, fans do not want "SJW stuff" or on-the-nose political/social statements in Star Wars, especially not in the feature films. But Kathleen Kennedy & Co. just couldn't resist, could they?

 

 

I didn't say I disliked Luke statement that "the Jedi must end". I merely supposed that it was a reason I believed that Rian Johnson knew he was making a divisive film.


What I do have an issue with is Luke Skywalker making the claim that "The legacy of the Jedi is failure." As Obi-Wan told Luke, "For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Empire." The Empire controlled the galaxy for 25 years before the Rebellion and a Jedi Knight defeated it. Then 30 years later, Jedi Master Luke Skywalker made one mistake with Ben, who then joined the First Order. Luke then chose to give up. That's not exactly a 'legacy of failure', is it?
 

 

George Lucas had a vision and a specific story to tell. His movie simply wasn't made well. But his heart was in the right place... and Star Wars was his creation.

 

In general, the Disney SW movies are superior from a production-value standpoint, but are still horribly written and divisive. Those in charge have an agenda... and it's not to make movies that most fans (and the general public) will enjoy. "You can't please everyone." With Disney's resources and the best talent in the world within their reach, they could please the vast majority. But clearly, those in charge aren't trying to do this... and don't seem to care that a significant segment of the fans... no longer care to support them.

 

Johnson publicly concurred with the researcher in trying to attribute the backlash after TLJ to Russian bots. Pathetic attempt to change the narrative... a slight change of pace from calling people "trolls", "manbabies", and "assholes".

 

Spoiled brat Kylo: Arguing with Snoke regarding his abilities and Rey, smashing his helmet in the elevator, continuing to ask Rey to join him when she came to turn him, using the Force to demean Commander Hux, made to look foolish when thinking he could kill a Force projection... twice

 

Correct, a lightsaber battle isn't required. But no one asked for "the same tired formula". Many capable writer could flesh-out a superb Episode 8... with all main events of TLJ still occurring. Rian Johnson just dropped the ball with a film that's simultaneously busy and lazy. 

 

The battle with the guards was pretty cool on first viewing, but again, why was Force-powerful Klyo so strained during the fight? And the digital removal of the dagger from the guard (that could have easily killed Rey) is just embarrassing from a choreography standpoint.

 

The problem have is that Luke Skywalker was written to say 'he came to the island to die'... and then died there by suicide. I understand these movies far better than most - and that includes you.

 

 

My prediction is at least 50% of fans will deliberately skip its theatrical run in a show of force. Many of the general audience will have been turned-off by TLJ and simply choose to attend other movies instead.

 

 

Star Wars fan: a person interested in any Star Wars stories, characters, or films

 

50% is just an estimate. We'll see what happens with Episode 9's box office pull. I'll be surprised if any of these things* don't happen but the film makes $1B worldwide (~$600M after the theaters take their cut).

 

* Kathleen Kennedy (and her story group) step-away from Lucasfilm (or are fired), Rian Johnson's trilogy is announced to be cancelled, apologies for the insults are officially issued

 

Fubar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Mattris Luke made a force projection of himself to stave off Kylo and give more time to Leia and the gang to escape. It wasn't exactly suicide, but it was a self sacrifice...

 

Also, you can't call yourself a fan, and then call out our rebuttals as being the opposite as if we're somehow 'lesser'/deluded fans. You're not speaking from any point of authority or with substantial facts, you don't have a clear consensus backing you; you're using the bitter and bruised responses as a shield as if Star Wars was in the shitter and you're the last line of defense. Nothing, not one shred of your arguments have been made with anything broaching anything like objective assessment, that's what's so ridiculous Mattris - is that you are perfectly fine with accepting your subjective opinion as an objective unalterable fact, but our subjective opinions are just that - subjective. 

 

I have every right to call you out for being a troll and it won't hurt me in the slightest if you ignore/block. I don't want to believe you're a troll, but the way you've presented your arguments here make me think you're either a bitter, enraged fan (which I actually feel sorry for, truly) or you're a lurker, waiting, watching, doing whatever because seeing all the responses to your insipid posts are a real turn on - you just want to stir the pot further and further and I'll admit, it's been quite fun to see how you're going to infuriate me with each new post.

 

In our early discourse in this thread, I and perhaps @Chen G. I think, felt sympathetic towards your concerns, and to some extent I (and Chen) can agree on several issues you've raised, but the more others have fed you and retaliated, they chipped away the veneer to reveal something that was there before all of this, something deeply disturbing and sad. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Arpy said:

In our early discourse in this thread, I and perhaps @Chen G. I think, felt sympathetic towards your concerns, and to some extent I (and Chen) can agree on several issues you've raised, but the more others have fed you and retaliated, they chipped away the veneer to reveal something that was there before all of this, something deeply disturbing and sad

 

 

image.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Arpy said:

In our early discourse in this thread, I and perhaps @Chen G. I think, felt sympathetic towards your concerns, and to some extent I (and Chen) can agree on several issues you've raised, but the more others have fed you and retaliated, they chipped away the veneer to reveal something that was there before all of this, something deeply disturbing and sad. 

 

@Mattris, the enemy is moving. Kathleen Kennedy's forces are massing at Disney — her eye is FIXED on malcontent fans. And @Chen G.. Arpy tells me, has betrayed you.

 

Your list of allies grows thin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Must...resist...joining...the...film...quoting...game!

 

At any rate, I'm still willing to engage in a discussion, as long as its not too one-sided.

 

As much as I see the logic behind a lot of what @Mattris says, it should be said that, on the whole, I did like the film.

 

I've been somewhat sympathetic towards some of Mattress's ideas (though by no means all), in general, in this thread.  I do think that Kennedy's stewardship of Star Wars has been lacking in terms of creativity and mapping out an overall vision of where she wants to take these films.  She seems to approaching each as a one off, which I'm sure plays to her stellar career as a producer, but I think Star Wars needs a little more than that.  Star Wars needs a grand vision, to not only be successful in the movies, but as a entertainment franchise going forward.

 

I also agree that TLJ is a deeply flawed Star Wars film (though I enjoy it well enough of its own terms and think it does have some significant merits), and I don't think a main saga film was the place to shake up expectations and break the formula. And I thought "sticking to the formula" was crucial to these movies succeeding even before TFA came out....(have I been here that long?)

 

On 1/26/2013 at 12:09 PM, Nick1066 said:

But I like the Abrams pick because it's safe. And you can't blame them for making a safe pick...there's too much riding on this movie. Besides, Star Wars isn't art house theatre, and people will go see the new movies, in large part, because they want to return to that universe. That's a big reason I believe The Hobbit movie has performed so well. People just want to go back there. You cant underestimate the pull of nostalgia. That doesn't mean it shouldn't, or can't, be a great film. But it should be Star Wars.

 

And frankly I don't want a director who's going to mess around with the Star Wars universe. I thought Abram's Star Trek was a pretty good movie, but it wasn't a good Star Trek movie, because he really wanted to make Star Wars. I just want someone who will make a good Star Wars movie.

 

The pile on with regards to Mattris, and the personal insults,  I thought, are also a bit much. As I said, previously, he tries to lay out his arguments in a thoughtful and cogent manner and generally avoids personal insults.

 

All that said, his arguments has grown tedious and he is coming across a bit fanatical, and his act is growing thin. The constant referencing of outside sources and what other fans think only weakens, not strengthens, his arguments IMO. And his repetition isn't doing him any favours. I won't attack him or call him a troll or say he doesn't belong here...but I also think the back and forth debating the merits of Star Wars with him is of limited value, since he's clearly made up his mind...as has everyone in this thread.  There's no light, just heat.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

I've been somewhat sympathetic towards some of Mattress's thoughts, in general, in this thread.  I do think that Kennedy's stewardship of Star Wars has been lacking in terms of creativity and mapping out an overall vision of where she wants to take these films.  She seems to approaching each as a one off, which I'm sure plays to her stellar career as a producer, but I think Star Wars needs a little more than that.  Star Wars needs a grand vision, to not only be successful in the movies, but as a entertainment franchise going forward.

  

I also agree that TLJ is a deeply flawed Star Wars films, and I don't think a main saga film was the place to shake up expectations and break the formula....something I thought was crucial to these movies succeeding even before TFA came out...

 

Now there's a discussion worth having (and yes, I'd be interested in what @Mattris has to say on the matter). I'm in two minds on the subject: on the one hand, I like the idea of an overriding vision - it works for Marvel, it worked for The Lord of the Rings; hell, it even worked for Pirates of the Carribean 1-3 (putting aside the merit of the films individually). I do think that it would have been beneficial for Star Wars to be made this way.

 

On the other hand, that was never the case for Star Wars previously: the first trilogy had absolutely nothing in the way of such a vision. The prequel trilogy had it, but only in VERY broad brushstrokes: George Lucas knew, when writing The Phantom Menace, that he'd have an Anakin/Padme love story in Episode II, and a tragic downfall (in which said love story would be a major component) in III. But he didn't, for instance, envision Count Dooku or Grievous from the outset.

 

We also need to differentiate between "vision" with regards to plot development, and stylistic uniformity. Since the 2000s, we'd been accostumed to film series having continuity not only with regards to the intricacies of their plots, but with regards to the style of filmmaking. This was achieved by giving a franchise to one filmmaker, or by nearly opressing the filmmakers' own voices to produce a bland, but uniform result - the MCU.

 

So, here comes Rian Johnson with a filmmaking style so removed from JJ Abrams and certainly from 1980s Star Wars directors - his film full of extreme close-ups, eliptical cutting, hightened lighting, etcetra - that it feels jarring. Still, you can't say Star Wars did this very well beforehand: Irvin Kirshner's directing is as different from Lucas' (on the original) as Johnson's is from Abrams'.

 

27 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

I also agree that TLJ is a deeply flawed Star Wars films, and I don't think a main saga film was the place to shake up expectations and break the formula....something I thought was crucial to these movies succeeding even before TFA came out...

 

I'm not averse to the idea of a deconstructive film in the main series. I just think the middle film is not the place to do it: either you do it in the first film of the trilogy, which than sets up the whole trilogy as one that's aimed at deconstructing the Star Wars "formula" - or you do it in the final film and close the series on that kind of note.

 

Also, I suppose I would have liked the concept of unpacking the Star Wars series, had Johnson went all the way and not cop-out in the final stretch of film. All in all, the Last Jedi, to quote Garrett Stiger, is "subversive but cosmetically so. There’s still a fascist regime and a scrappy resistance. We’ve got our Dark Force user in the conflicted Kylo Ren (Adam Driver), and we’ve got our Light Force user in Rey (Daisy Ridley)."

 

I'm many ways, I'm holding out for IX to follow through where Johnson didn't. In screenwriting, there's this idea of destroying the main character's normal world. The same, I find, should happen in the end of a trilogy: at the end, something of the essence of the world of the film should be taken away from it. For the Lord of the Rings, it were the Elves; for Star Wars - it should be the Jedi, if not the whole concept of having a connection to the Force. That kind of ending would give the trilogy the right amount of weight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm holding out until 9 to judge the relative shallowness of this deconstruction - as far as we know, Abrams may build on the seeds sown by Johnson and take it much further.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Holko said:

Abrams may build on the seeds sown by Johnson and take it much further.

 

I should hope so, but what seeds did Johnson sow? At the end of the day, he reaffirmed the raison d'etre of the Jedi order - perhaps the closest he came to dismentaling the Star Wars "formula".

 

If he did land on the conclusion that the Jedi must end (they don't have the best track record, it seems) it could have been quite powerful. But no...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Demodex said:

I don't see what the big deal is with TLJ. Did it really change anything about the SW universe? 

 

Only one thing: it made the rebels in the previous movies look dumb, because they could have destroyed imperial fleets by just hyperspace-flying empty ships (driven by robots) through them, instead of going Yavin / Hoth / Endor style. On the other hand, we would have lost the best battle-related musical cues of the OT.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Now there's a discussion worth having (and yes, I'd be interested in what @Mattris has to say on the matter). I'm in two minds on the subject: on the one hand, I like the idea of an overriding vision - it works for Marvel, it worked for The Lord of the Rings; hell, it even worked for Pirates of the Carribean 1-3 (putting aside the merit of the films individually). I do think that it would have been beneficial for Star Wars to be made this way.

 

Except that we already had a rather lengthy discussion on this very issue (that you were a part of).  And what you didn't recognise then was that while you're correct that there wasn't any grand vision or plot mapped out (despite GL's repeated insistence to the contrary), there was back then at least one person...George Lucas...who was steering that ship creatively. He may have been making it up as he went along, but he's the guy who created those characters and situations, populated that universe and at least had a general idea of where it was all going.

 

That's a big difference from what we've got now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Score said:

 

Only one thing: it made the rebels in the previous movies look dumb, because they could have destroyed imperial fleets by just hyperspace-flying empty ships (driven by robots) through them, instead of going Yavin / Hoth / Endor style. On the other hand, we would have lost the best battle-related musical cues of the OT.  

 

Well if we're at rationalising: 

The Raddus is the biggest ship the Rebellion/Resistance ever had, twice as long as an Imperial-class Star Destroyer. All it did to the Supremacy (which is shorter than the Executor lengthwise) is split it in half, the resulting wreckage took down some bystander SDs. So it's not exactly a very effective technique.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I'm in two minds on the subject: on the one hand, I like the idea of an overriding vision... it even worked for Pirates of the Carribean 1-3 (putting aside the merit of the films individually).

I didn't understand a thing about the plot of those movies- but they were fun to watch. If they do a 6, bring everyone back (yes, even the dead ones- it doesn't matter how just that they do) and have one last shebang. It will be great action, but still hold up to being confusing and nonsensical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone talks about The Last Jedi being a deconstructive film, but no one talks about Solo, which was a brilliant deconstruction, not of Star Wars, but of the debate surrounding it. Look at the Maw scene: the characters are getting pulled as if in a cosmic whirpool, seemingly infinite and inescapable...with a deadly end. However, they had to blast through and completely break away from the pull, escaping the dangerous, sucking scenario they found themselves in.

 

Like I said, brilliant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

there was back then at least one person...George Lucas...who was steering that ship creatively. He may have been making it up as he went along, but he's the guy who created those characters and situations, populated that universe and at least had a general idea of where it was all going.

 

True, but that only gets you so far. I guess that I'm on the edges of this discussion: to me, just having one guy writing the story outlines of the different films (which is what George Lucas did) is not enough to make a trilogy feel truly unified. You'd note, for instance, my disregard for how Lucas planned out his prequels, in saying it was only "broad brushstrokes".

 

Filmmaking as an art-form is the case of the triumph of the execution over the concept: the same premise, or the same story outline for that matter, in the hands of different filmmakers (directors and/or screenwriters) could turn out wildly different. The story of Empire Strikes Back, as is, if written by a lesser screenwriter and/or directed by a lesser director - could have been terrible. The story of Revenge of the Sith - if helmed by a better filmmaker - could have been the best Star Wars film by a mile: it has was is by far the best premise out of the lot.

 

So, even if you have a single person write the story outlines - you've still left too much for the individual filmmakers helming the different films to play around with and twist out of its intended mould. The only way to produce a truly cohesive film trilogy is to script. previs, shoot and assemble the whole bloody thing in one go, and release the entries in close intervals.

 

Would I have preferred this most recent Star Wars trilogy to be made this way? Probably. But given that it was never "the Star Wars way" - I don't mind it too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What little we know of Lucas' plans would seem to suggest that they were a) far from fully drawn and b) godawful.

 

Personally, I don't mind that they're "not canon" - I just mind that they're extraneous: the story of Star Wars has a beginning (whether its The Phantom Menace or the original Star Wars - to each his own), a middle and an END. And now, there's three more (relativelly lengthy) films set after that end? 

 

Episode IX had better offer a really strong conclusion. If it doesn't, I'll probably end up ignoring the sequels trilogy - not unlike Kingdom of the Crystal Skull - not because of the quality of the films (which wipes the floor with Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, obviously), but because - even moreso than that film, perhaps - they're extraneous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Holko said:

 

Well if we're at rationalising: 

The Raddus is the biggest ship the Rebellion/Resistance ever had, twice as long as an Imperial-class Star Destroyer. All it did to the Supremacy (which is shorter than the Executor lengthwise) is split it in half, the resulting wreckage took down some bystander SDs. So it's not exactly a very effective technique.

 

You are right. The whole movie makes sense now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

Everyone talks about The Last Jedi being a deconstructive film, but no one talks about Solo, which was a brilliant deconstruction, not of Star Wars, but of the debate surrounding it. Look at the Maw scene: the characters are getting pulled as if in a cosmic whirpool, seemingly infinite and inescapable...with a deadly end. However, they had to blast through and completely break away from the pull, escaping the dangerous, sucking scenario they found themselves in.

 

Like I said, brilliant.

You forgot about the real deconstruction of Star Wars (and possibly of the legacy of the franchise) and that's Rogue One - everyone dies.

 

Not only that, but the characters, all racially and ethnically diverse are killed just the same!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Arpy said:

You forgot about the real deconstruction of Star Wars (and possibly of the legacy of the franchise) and that's Rogue One - everyone dies.

 

Not only that, but the characters, all racially and ethnically diverse are killed just the same!

 

 

On my film blog I actually wrote an essay about how Rogue One is--OBJECTIVELY-- a deconstruction of the fandom debate in the sense that you think it's gonna go somewhere new, despite some obnoxious calls to the past, but ultimately segues slam-right back into the same crap everyone's familiar with.

 

As I said, brilliant. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Chen G. said:

He made it up as he went along.

 

And just as easily as you say that, I will say that George Lucas knew that Luke would survive and be the one - or, at the very least, the catalyst to defeat the Sith... and that the Rebellion would eventually defeat the Empire.

 

The fact that George Lucas had to leave LFL on unpleasant terms - after initially staying on as a creative consultant but having his sequel treatments thrown in the garbage - should be proof enough that the current holders are on a selfish mission... but still are 'making it up as they go'.

 

14 hours ago, Holko said:

His posts are getting sillier and sillier.

 

Which of my points are silly?

 

14 hours ago, crumbs said:

Stop feeding the troll.

 

Taking the time to name-call makes you look pathetic.

 

13 hours ago, Demodex said:

Wow.  Someone is having delusions of grandeur. 

 

You don't think I understand TLJ better than most... or you? There's probably not too many people in the world that understand the movie better than me, having only seen the movie once and not read its novelization.

 

13 hours ago, Arpy said:

Ooh, ignored by @Mattris 

 

Not yet.

 

10 hours ago, Demodex said:

To be fair, I called him an incel and implied he's scared of strong women. 

I kind of feel bad, but I don't know that I'm wrong either. 

 

Thank you for admitting your regret. You are wrong, though.

 

9 hours ago, Richard said:

Fubar.

 

... is the state of Star Wars at the moment.

 

7 hours ago, Arpy said:

@Mattris Luke made a force projection of himself to stave off Kylo and give more time to Leia and the gang to escape. It wasn't exactly suicide, but it was a self sacrifice...

 

Also, you can't call yourself a fan, and then call out our rebuttals as being the opposite as if we're somehow 'lesser'/deluded fans. You're not speaking from any point of authority or with substantial facts, you don't have a clear consensus backing you; you're using the bitter and bruised responses as a shield as if Star Wars was in the shitter and you're the last line of defense. Nothing, not one shred of your arguments have been made with anything broaching anything like objective assessment, that's what's so ridiculous Mattris - is that you are perfectly fine with accepting your subjective opinion as an objective unalterable fact, but our subjective opinions are just that - subjective. 

 

I have every right to call you out for being a troll and it won't hurt me in the slightest if you ignore/block. I don't want to believe you're a troll, but the way you've presented your arguments here make me think you're either a bitter, enraged fan (which I actually feel sorry for, truly) or you're a lurker, waiting, watching, doing whatever because seeing all the responses to your insipid posts are a real turn on - you just want to stir the pot further and further and I'll admit, it's been quite fun to see how you're going to infuriate me with each new post.

 

In our early discourse in this thread, I and perhaps @Chen G. I think, felt sympathetic towards your concerns, and to some extent I (and Chen) can agree on several issues you've raised, but the more others have fed you and retaliated, they chipped away the veneer to reveal something that was there before all of this, something deeply disturbing and sad.

 

I understand Luke made a self-sacrifice. But the events of the film imply that the Resistance would have gotten away without his 'appearance'... because Rey and Chewie helped them escape though a back corridor. And of course, Rose's intervention didn't help their cause - quite the opposite. This was weak and lazy writing - not fulfilling.

 

I never called you lesser/deluded fans. I simply stated that those that like TLJ were satisfied by less or that, going in, your expectations were lower.

 

I never conveyed my "subjective opinion as an objective unalterable fact" - just theories and opinions based on actual events during the last few years. My "substantial facts" are that Star Wars movie ticket and merchandise sales are down and for the first time ever Star Wars film just lost money... a lot of it. The fan consensus may not be "clear", but a lot of "bitter and bruised" people that think that "Star Wars was in the shitter". With Disney overseeing and marketing, LFL - under the presidency of Kathleen Kennedy, are producing offering a creative product, so "objective assessment" need not into it. Many feel these films are lazy and deliberately divisive... in their subjective opinion, of course. For the disenchanted, "the last line of defense" will be to simply share their thoughts on line... and not buy Star Wars stuff. Their hope is that the decline in revenue will result in a positive change for the franchise. That's all they can do.

 

This thread probably would exist had I not joined the conversation. Calling me a troll does you or your 'side' absolutely no good. If anything, it discredits. I have every right to be "bitter" and "enraged" after TLJ (film and film-makers) crapped on Star Wars. While feeling sorry me, feel sorry for the millions of other disenchanted Star Wars fans.... because that will improve things!

 

After the fan backlash, LFL employees have "retaliated" and "chipped away [their] veneer to reveal something that was there before all of this, something deeply disturbing and sad."

 

I'm pleased to know that you can agree on several issues I've raised. But if my posts now "infuriate" you, it might be because I have enlightened you on how poor of a film TLJ really is... and you are struggling to come to terms with this fact. If not, just don't read my posts and get on with your life.

 

5 hours ago, Nick1066 said:

All that said, his arguments has grown tedious and he is coming across a bit fanatical, and his act is growing thin. The constant referencing of outside sources and what other fans think only weakens, not strengthens, his arguments IMO. And his repetition isn't doing him any favours. I won't attack him or call him a troll or say he doesn't belong here...but I also think the back and forth debating the merits of Star Wars with him is of limited value, since he's clearly made up his mind...as has everyone in this thread.  There's no light, just heat.

 

I am the only one taking the time to respond to most substantive posts defending or praising Disney's handling of Star Wars. But I admit, my repetition is a bit long in the tooth. Though if I come across as "a bit fanatical", it's because I am a Star Wars fan, and hate to see the franchise disrespected and the fans divided and distraught.

 

How does my "referencing of outside sources and what other fans think" weaken my arguments?

 

3 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

I think a more over-arching plan would involve continuous direction from JJ for all three movies. Johnson and Abrams didn't have the same plan we assume, but would we have liked an Abrams TLJ better? I don't think so.

 

I sure that most of the fans would have.

 

7 hours ago, Nick1066 said:

 

@Mattris, the enemy is moving. Kathleen Kennedy's forces are massing at Disney — her eye is FIXED on malcontent fans. And @Chen G.. Arpy tells me, has betrayed you.

 

Your list of allies grows thin.

 

The conclusion of LOTR saw the villain (Sauron) and leach (Gollum) defeated by good. The same will happen with the current 'keepers' of Star Wars. The darkest hour is just before the dawn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Mattris said:

The conclusion of LOTR saw the villain (Sauron) and leach (Gollum) defeated by good. The same will happen with the current 'keepers' of Star Wars. The darkest hour is just before the dawn.

 

oh sweet jesus 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×