Joni Wiljami

^This. It's pretty much guaranteed. 
 
-Erik-

John Williams is a member of Remote Control Production. He adopted the practices of Hans Zimmer. JW is seriously at the end of life in decline as some people say. This YouTube comment is proof. It must be true when it is written on the internet. There is no doubt about it. 

Tintin is a way, WAY, WAAAAY better score than Dial Of Destiny. Which is, not only but also, underlined by the fact that DoD rips it off.
Tintin is a gem.
 
This isn't.

Saw the film yesterday.
 
I'm one of those weirdos who avoided anything score-related prior to seeing the film. I knew Helena had a theme but I hadn't listened to it. I steered clear of all discussions about the film and score. So I was going in with very few preconceived notions.
 
Maybe it would have been better if I hadn't done that. Because it didn't take long for me to realize this was another COS, and it hurt my enjoyment of the film. One direct quote after another, strung together (very competently) by Williams and/or Ross.
 
If I hadn't heard any of the previous scores, I probably would be hailing this one as a triumph. It's all great stuff! But as things are, I was distracted and disappointed by each lifted passage. I hoped that they'd stop after the prologue, but they merely became a little less frequent.
 
I know how this is gonna go. As the years pass, I'll get used to these new configurations of the old writing, and I'll come to enjoy this score well enough as its own thing. That's what happened with COS. But in the meantime … damn, what a letdown.
 
(Disclaimer: I fully realize that JW is in his 90s. I don't know how he continues to do as much as he does. Not holding anything against him, or anyone else.)

I was listening to an interview with Mangold and the interviewer asked if John Williams just repeated "Leia and Han" for Marion's theme. I presume she meant Han Solo and the Princess. Mangold said "Well it is the same guy. Mozart always sounds a little alike. They all come from the same brain, the same pencil, the same piano".

I'm going to get taken out back and beaten for this, but I have to be honest with myself, unfortunately: this was not John Williams at his finest (or even his mediocre). I'm thankful for any new JW music as I worship the man, the talent and the impact he has had. But this soundtrack hits me hard with a combination of filler and reuse.
 
And, I have no problems with reusing old themes, especially major character themes like Indy's theme (obviously), Marion's theme etc... I don't even mind callbacks to major action cues like Belly of the Steel Beast. What I do have issues with is essentially nothing new thematically, or, at the very least, nothing new that is memorable.
 
Yes, Helena's theme is a major new theme, but I don't find it either memorable or particularly well utilized in the movie (it certainly doesn't compare, in my mind, to other JW heroine themes like Leia's theme, Marion's theme, Rey's theme etc). Indiana Jones films have foundational, common components: a cold open set piece, a McGuffin, a female co-adventurer, a creepy critter interlude, a cave/tomb raid, a travel map mechanic, an epic chase sequence, etc -- and it has always had some pretty significant new music to accompany those: a new march, an identifiable McGuffin theme, a re-occurring villain motif, a bombastic action cue, etc.
 
That stuff is just not there in this movie. It may be hinted at at times, but like the traditional title template's dissolve from the paramount logo into the film's matching opening shot, the Indiana Jones musical template has been left in the past. I miss it.

You are all so fucking out of your minds. Bye. For the 100th time. Candle on the cake.

Just got back from seeing the film. I thought the score was fantastic! Definitely sounded like new recordings of most if not all of the existing material from the earlier films, which makes me all the more bummed that so much of it didn’t make it onto the OST. I actually really enjoyed all the reused stuff, and “Belly of the Steel Beast” for example was so cool to hear in a movie theater (TLC came out a few years before I was born).
 
Based on some posts here and elsewhere, I was also bracing myself for not much Indy theme, but was pleasantly surprised; I thought his theme showed up in all the right places, and there were some really awesome renditions that, again, I wish had made it onto the album. Prior to seeing the film I had listened through the OST 4 times, so the stuff that wasn’t on it really stood out to me in the theater.
 
Still, it was incredible hearing a John Williams score in theaters in 2023. (I’m ashamed to say I didn’t make it to see Fabelmans in theaters last year, so this was my first time hearing his music in the theater since TROS.) And I know some have had a tough time with Helena’s theme, but over the past 9 months it has become one of my favorite JW themes in a very long time, and its use in the film was pretty much everything I had hoped for. Archimedes’ theme was also a highlight. All in all, I’m very happy! Hoping to go see it again with a friend soon.

One moment I really enjoyed both as cinema and musically is the shared flashback that starts from Indy’s POV on the plane and comes back as Helena’s. It’s a great bit of visual storytelling, it’s scored marvelously and give us a lot of character stuff. Probably in the script but Mangold shot it well. I also felt the editing of the Airport through to the end was quite good (but in that I might just be loving the music for the entire sequence).
 
Overall, just came back from a my second viewing (1st was 2 weeks ago), this time with my wife. First off, she really liked the movie. She rates it way above Skull (which she rewatched this week at my suggestion to get the necessary info about Marion and Mutt) and maybe more than TLC and TOD. I could see that about TOD given that has some gruesome moments but not TLC. In any case, glad she liked it (and allowed me to drag her to a 9 am showing). 
 
Focusing on the music and after many listens of the OST this week, I am super pleased with the music in the movie. On my first viewing, I was grabbed by all the familiar motifs and themes and styles from other Indy movies and other JW movies as noted throughout this thread. But on the second viewing, I was able to hear more of the new stuff and how it weaves together. I was also surprised by how many more moments of now music there was than I remembered on the first watch. The music 100% enhances and pushes the movie forward in ways that are right for the series, and if you back to skull and see how Marion’s theme is so key after she is introduced in the movie, I think Helena’s theme followed suit. Of course, Helena is a much more action character, and her theme morphs to her actions. It’s just so well done.
 
I do miss the NYC stuff in not being on the OST. I loved the difference of it both for the sneaking music for Helena and the CIA agents and the horse ride through the parade. It works with the time period, the fractured nature of what is going on in the story and the ability to start and stop it for the diegetic music.
 
The end suite - I wish we had all the pieces. I know it’s basically the back half of NYC + Helena’s Theme + Prologue but I still felt something was else was in there. Could be wrong. I am ok with the way it ends sentimentally and softly. 
 
Overall, looking forward to seeing the movie again! (And getting all the music some day if I live that long or fine a dial of destiny to go forward in time and bring back the music after the copyright expires.)

I'm  so worried about the fact that this might be Williams' last score!!! What would all those fuckface negative 'fans' do with their lives?! Seriously. 
From HP I have read so many comments about how JW has lost it, too old, cannot write memorable themes etc..  Almost a race, who will be the first to bash a new score. Get a life, start to listen to Trump's speeches or to analyse Hansu's scores. Or start to drink like me.

I'm  so worried about the fact that this might be Williams' last score!!! What would all those fuckface negative 'fans' do with their lives?! Seriously. 
From HP I have read so many comments about how JW has lost it, too old, cannot write memorable themes etc..  Almost a race, who will be the first to bash a new score. Get a life, start to listen to Trump's speeches or to analyse Hansu's scores. Or start to drink like me.

I'm  so worried about the fact that this might be Williams' last score!!! What would all those fuckface negative 'fans' do with their lives?! Seriously. 
From HP I have read so many comments about how JW has lost it, too old, cannot write memorable themes etc..  Almost a race, who will be the first to bash a new score. Get a life, start to listen to Trump's speeches or to analyse Hansu's scores. Or start to drink like me.

I'm  so worried about the fact that this might be Williams' last score!!! What would all those fuckface negative 'fans' do with their lives?! Seriously. 
From HP I have read so many comments about how JW has lost it, too old, cannot write memorable themes etc..  Almost a race, who will be the first to bash a new score. Get a life, start to listen to Trump's speeches or to analyse Hansu's scores. Or start to drink like me.

Just saw the film. Wonderful score. If this was Johnny's last one, thank you for all the music Sir. Love you. 

I'm  so worried about the fact that this might be Williams' last score!!! What would all those fuckface negative 'fans' do with their lives?! Seriously. 
From HP I have read so many comments about how JW has lost it, too old, cannot write memorable themes etc..  Almost a race, who will be the first to bash a new score. Get a life, start to listen to Trump's speeches or to analyse Hansu's scores. Or start to drink like me.

I'm  so worried about the fact that this might be Williams' last score!!! What would all those fuckface negative 'fans' do with their lives?! Seriously. 
From HP I have read so many comments about how JW has lost it, too old, cannot write memorable themes etc..  Almost a race, who will be the first to bash a new score. Get a life, start to listen to Trump's speeches or to analyse Hansu's scores. Or start to drink like me.

After my first proper listen I must say that I started to pick up on more thematic connections, and there are some great tracks that didn't stood out to me that much in the movie, probably because they were mixed a bit low.
 
The best parts are when Williams dissects Helena's theme in action mode, especially in tracks like The Airport, but I'm starting to like more and more the two ideas associated with Archimedes and the Dial, both appearing in the last couple of minutes of the Prologue. I also like how that track serves as a sort of overture presenting all the main new ideas for the movie, even if I haven't been able yet to identify all the evil / nazi themes, as they tend to bleed into each other a bit.
 
I will definitely give it many more listens, and it works great as a listening experience, and from what I can recall from watching the movie, nothing really that important is missing, apart from some action cues being longer, and some thematic statements from early in the movie being also missing.

I'm  so worried about the fact that this might be Williams' last score!!! What would all those fuckface negative 'fans' do with their lives?! Seriously. 
From HP I have read so many comments about how JW has lost it, too old, cannot write memorable themes etc..  Almost a race, who will be the first to bash a new score. Get a life, start to listen to Trump's speeches or to analyse Hansu's scores. Or start to drink like me.

It is OK to dislike or be disappointed by a new JW score.

So, 4th time I'm listening to this now..
With this ost the following paradox happens with me:
Each time I hear it, I like it less (usually the opposite happens).
I don't know, the Indiana Jones music is overly saturated, and as much as I love John Williams, I will stick to my opinion that this was superfluous.
I apologize to the fans of this soundtrack.

Just saw the film. Wonderful score. If this was Johnny's last one, thank you for all the music Sir. Love you. 

Tuk Tuk!!

Tuk Tuk!!

Just saw the film. Wonderful score. If this was Johnny's last one, thank you for all the music Sir. Love you. 

I know we need to cut Williams some slack at 91, and we don't know what Mangold wanted *in detail*, but re-recording whole sections from the 80s films doesn't pass as "creating a feel of classic Indy", it's copy-paste. 
Whether the reason is radical rescoring because of editing, or Mangold wanting this temp rehash, or Williams simply not being able to do it at 91, the result sounds lazy.
It feels like one of those 80s Superman sequels that repurpuse large portions of Williams' original.