HunterTech

Gosh, I sure am happy The Fabelmans got an isolated score!

Gosh, I sure am happy The Fabelmans got an isolated score!

Gosh, I sure am happy The Fabelmans got an isolated score!

That is less a mistake on their end, and more Disney's, since their planned singular release of the Skywalker Saga TLJ disc never came to be for reasons unknown. @Manakin Skywalker could probably explain it a bit better.
 
Though now that it's double confirmed as being openly advertised for the initial release of DoD, you would know who to complain to if it actually isn't on the disc .

That is less a mistake on their end, and more Disney's, since their planned singular release of the Skywalker Saga TLJ disc never came to be for reasons unknown. @Manakin Skywalker could probably explain it a bit better.
 
Though now that it's double confirmed as being openly advertised for the initial release of DoD, you would know who to complain to if it actually isn't on the disc .

That is less a mistake on their end, and more Disney's, since their planned singular release of the Skywalker Saga TLJ disc never came to be for reasons unknown. @Manakin Skywalker could probably explain it a bit better.
 
Though now that it's double confirmed as being openly advertised for the initial release of DoD, you would know who to complain to if it actually isn't on the disc .

Well, the only reason that info even became known is because the reactionary websites/YouTubers were so desperate to tear apart every aspect of CM that they basically acknowledged the score just to disparage the production further by alleging Gia did a considerable amount on the project, by which he then had to make a statement about helping out on the project in a limited capacity.
 
It sure gives a bit of a taste over what it might look like if the general public cared more about who wrote what in film scores, but it certainly didn't deserve to come about in such a blatantly misogynistic manner.
 
Given what happened with Kelly Marie Tran on SW, I'd hate to think if it was for this reason that Toprak didn't come back for the sequel.

Stéphane has provided more info at the same link:

Nick & Hans basically gave me carte blanche. It was cool to have Harry Gregson-Williams' support & interest as well (unfortunately, HGW isn't really interested in the whole "expanded" topic so don't expect any of his scores to be expanded. But he was cool with The Rock. Hoping one day we'll change his mind ! :)). Kaya Savas wrote the liners, if you want to read more from the composers about their experience & the production of that score).
 
We got big help from RCP & the film's music editing team to get material. My friend Maxime Marion (who knows the score inside & out as much as I do) engineered & mastered it. We took great care of it. Douglass Fake from Intrada usually handles mastering for most of their releases but they were happy with what we came up with so I guess we didn't disappoint. Quality is top notch, besides a few of the demos (more on that below).
 
The score presentation is pretty straightforward. Cues were assembled where it made sense, Nick & Marc Streitenfeld's assembly from 1996 was a blueprint to start with but it also had a few things that needed corrections.
 
It was a surprise that among the material RCP kept they had old synth mock ups of the score, not always in the best shape though. That's the only downside here, the Chase demos didn't come in great quality (fear not, nothing on the level of the almost unlistenable The Lion King Legacy Collection score demos lol). But there was never a question not to include them : they're just too good & too much fun, and a great case study of a sequence rewritten to death developing to its final version just days before the film's release (it was the last approved cue !).
 
Oh and if you ask why more of Nick's early sketches are not released, it was technically impossible for the most part as some bits got reused elsewhere in other scores later.
 
Out of all that material, we had Bob Daspit's great guitar solo from Naval Weapons Depot, so it was cool to remix it and end the album with that "heavy guitar version".
 
Hope you'll enjoy it !!!

CD 1 THE SCORE
01. Opening–Naval Weapons Depot (8:07)
02. Baby Gas (2:28)
03. Romance I–Tour’s Over Bob (3:46)
04. Hummel Speech/Alcatraz Reopened (2:25)
05. Hummel’s Demands To Pentagon (1:21)
06. Possible Romantic Cue (0:46)
07. Mason Montage (1:26)
08. San Francisco Montage (1:17)
09. Interrogation–Quarter (1:28)
10. Window Crash/Fairmont (2:07)
11. Haircut/Escape: The Chase!! (8:21)
12. Goodspeed Tracks Jade (0:50)
13. Jade (1:58)
14. Blueprints (1:05)
15. Hummel/SEALs (7:14)
16. Mason Into Furnace/SEALs Tunnel–SEAL Attack (9:24)
17. Aftermath (0:51)
18. Bombs (3:43)
19. The Morgue (1:45)
20. Indiana Jones/Fight With Marines (6:17)
CD 1 Total Time: 66:49

CD 2 THE SCORE (continued)
01. Hostage/Goodspeed Captured (5:35)
02. Plasma Bomb Is Ready (0:52)
03. Hammer Head (6:02)
04. President’s Lament (1:59)
05. Mission’s Over/Final Attack/Finale (16:19)
06. Fort Walton, Kansas (1:39)
07. End Titles (Hummel / SEALs) (2:14)

THE EXTRAS

08. SEAL Attack (Alternate Segment) (1:34)
09. Fort Walton, Kansas (Alternate) (1:37)
10. Main Theme Idea (Nick’s Demo Sketch) (2:36)
11. Hummel Speech–Alcatraz Reopened (Demo Version) (2:24)
12. Haircut / Escape: The Chase!! (Demo Version 1) (3:37)
13. Haircut / Escape: The Chase!! (Demo Version 2) (8:04)
14. Haircut / Escape: The Chase!! (Demo Version 3) (8:16)
15. Naval Weapons Depot (Rock Mix) (4:17)
CD 2 Total Time: 67:12
 
 
 
 
 
Roger:
 
INTRADA Announces!

THE ROCK

Composed and Produced by NICK GLENNIE-SMITH, HANS ZIMMER and HARRY GREGSON-WILLIAMS

INTRADA ISC 491

Intrada presents the long in-demand expanded edition of one of Michael Bay's most beloved films—Hollywood Pictures' The Rock. To score this solid action tale set on San Francisco's famous Alcatraz island, the filmmakers turned to Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer and Harry Gregson-Williams. Given Glennie-Smith's past experiences with both producer Jerry Bruckheimer and Bay, he stepped into the role of lead composer. The result was a strikingly popular score with such a distinctive theme that for years after it would appear in trailers and be heard by millions around the world. But many would not realize they were hearing The Rock. It is a score that features a unique blend of action bravado undercut with a touch of melancholy. As first presented, the main theme represents the tragedy of combat and loss, but when flipped morphs into an heroic anthem. Even with both Glennie-Smith and Zimmer on board, however, the workload proved greater than expected. Enter Harry Gregson-Williams, who was just down the hall. Gregson-Williams was initially brought on as an “additional” composer. As the film’s postproduction schedule became more and more frenetic, his involvement continued to grow.
 
For this 2-CD set, Intrada features the complete score in film order, plus our usual section of "extras" that includes alternates and demos. The alternates showcase a very different tone from one version to another and provide an enlightening glimpse into the score's evolution. This new edition features some two hours and 15 minutes of music and is an iconic example of '90s action scoring at its peak.
 
The story revolves around Francis X. Hummel (Ed Harris), a rogue brigadier general who enlists a group of Marines to take hostages on Alcatraz and hold them for ransom while they threaten the San Francisco area with VX rockets. Their goal is to secure funds to help pay back the families of soldiers killed in covert U.S. government operations. The government enlists the help of Stanley Goodspeed (Nicolas Cage), a chemical weapons expert FBI agent. They also turn to John Mason (Sean Connery), a political prisoner and former MI6 agent who is the only person known to have escaped from Alcatraz. Goodspeed and Mason, led by a team of US Navy SEALs, attempt to infiltrate Alcatraz and neutralize the threat while rescuing the hostages.

Intrada ISC 491
Retail Price: $31.99
Barcode: 7 20258 54910 5
Ships week of 10/2

For track listing and sound samples visit the The Rock soundtrackoundtrack page.
 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/95015405220/posts/10168389866025221/
 
 
 
 
Doug:

Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer and Harry Gregson-Williams
Label: Intrada Special Collection Volume ISC 491
Film Date: 1996
Album Date: 2023
Time: 134:01
Tracks: 35

Knockout '90s action score gets expanded premiere! One of the higher request expansions we have received over the years has finally made it across the finish line! Michael Bay directs, Don Simpson and Jerry Bruckheimer produce for Hollywood Pictures. Sean Connery heads the cast, with Nicolas Cage, Ed Harris, Michael Biehn, William Forsythe supporting. 1996 action classic was a smash box-office hit and dynamic, powerhouse scoring by Nick Glennie-Smith and Hans Zimmer with Harry Greyson-Williams getting in some musical licks was a major ingredient in the film’s success.
 
Trend-setting score features pulsating rhythms to drive action forward, with chopping melodic motifs above that became musical staples in numerous subsequent action movie trailers for years. There is melancholy as well in select moments, but action is keynote. Elements of military heroism and terrorism meld as armed take-over of Alcatraz prison complex known as “The Rock” by rogue group of Marines. San Francisco is the target of deadly VX rockets unless financial demands are met. Navy SEALS infiltrate and counter-attack and dense, aggressive music keeps pace.
 
Expanded 2-CD release, courtesy of Hollywood Pictures and Disney was assembled and produced by Stephane Humez with mastering by Maxime Marion. Intrada presentation features the complete score in film order plus a wealth of alternates and demos, providing an aural insight into the preparations of this scoring classic. Two hours and fifteen minutes of music that defined the '90s and onwards.
 
Full cue assembly details, dramatic packaging designed by Kay Marshall and informative booklet notes by Kaya Savas complete this exciting 2-CD set. Nick Glennie-Smith, Hans Zimmer, Harry Greyson-Williams compose. Nick Glennie-Smith, Bruce Fowler, Don Harper share in conducting duties. Intrada Special Collection 2-CD set available while quantities and interest remain!
 
https://store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.12880/.f

I got a "thank you" from Hans Zimmer after my review. These things always boost my motivation.

I don't think I have real problems with most instruments on their own, I don't reject any of them as an "intrusion" to the classical idea of a perfect orchestral sound on my high horse. I only have problems when they're used uncreatively or overbearingly in a way that's just unpleasant and jarring to me. It's all in the context and execution. Synths can add wonderful dark or romantic or magical texture, or they can make everything sound stupid and cheap. Strange, old or exotic instruments can greatly enhance the range of textures the composer can work with. Rock percussion and guitar can be really fun or yeah if overdone, make it feel pandering and dumbed down. Bagpipes and accordions have wonderful unique timbres that can be a great asset, to dismiss them outright is baffling to me. Choir can be used in fantastic diverse ways, or it can just be a sampled-sounding mush slapped on to make it "ePiC". Or it can just be the wailing woman over every cue. Or operatic singing, god, that's my least favourite thing, thankfully not very prominent in film scores. But even inside the classical idea of the orchestra, strings can be dramatic or soulful, or they can keep sawing a 3-note unchanging boring ostinato in an amateur way of trying to create tension. Woodwinds are some of my favourite things, or they can be piercing shrieking goddamned things. Brass can be noble and rich, or it can just be slapped on top of itself playing deafening held notes with no melody or accessible structure (oh god why did I listen to Beneath the Planet of the Apes again).

An underpriced release and an overpriced one, they make a good pair!
...plus another overpriced one. Sigh.
 

I am a huge fan of sequencers and loops and stuff, but it needs to be done right. Like Berlin School sequencers (Tangerine Dream and such), various EDM artists and things like that. Or funky synthwave things, using Roland T-808, the Linndrum or other vintage drum machines. The Remote Control/trailer music ostinato thing, which I'm guessing is what you're referring to, is very uninteresting.
 
There isn't really any one element that I dislike in music; it all depends on how it's being used. Even bag pipes.

The next will be all the AI tracks that didn't get used!

The next will be all the AI tracks that didn't get used!

The next will be all the AI tracks that didn't get used!

I feel like even in that department, other films since Star Wars - both in that series and outside it - have at least done elements of the Star Wars story better. If you're a kid in 2023 and you've seen The Force Awakens, and then you go back and see "the original", its not going to feel as engrossing, and not because The Force Awakens is better. The Phantom Menace also uses quite a few story beats from the original (its based on one of its earlier drafts) and again, its not that its better, but it is going to cast a pall over seeing those same beats mounted "again" in seeing the original later.
 
And, again, the "rescue the princess" premise had arguably been done better in stuff like Curse of the Black Pearl. The "unlikely hero" was done better in The Lord of the Rings. The bombing run was recently done better in Maverick, the desert planet was done WAY better not just in later Star Wars entries, but especially in both Dune and John Carter, etc...

This is where I link you to about 700 articles on glass ceilings. 
 
I'm not super familiar with the work of any of the women mentioned, but enough to say none of it has jumped out to me, but also that there are about 10-15 men currently writing music in film and television who are no more or less talented. Some of them have won awards and some haven't. Some have been around for a very long time. Are they more deserving of work in some way? 
 
When last I checked, women make up 50% of the population. I struggle to see how a disproportionate number of them getting awards and work is somehow upsetting fragile nature of the scoring business.
 
If you think raw talent is all that matters, I point you to the last 20 years of film scores. If that's the talent men have to offer, then, for the love of God, hire more women, and if your immediate reaction to any woman getting a gig is that she's a diversity hire, I encourage you to go home and rethink your life.

In fact it's just more or less one guy.

I am sorry, but I find this post to be baseless. Since Joker, she has done 3 films and none of them are blockbuster hits. The way people say she "got all the best gigs," you would think she is churring out scores like Lorne Balfe. Even critically, only Tar was a highly regarded film. Also, all this talk about her getting gigs because she is a woman doesn't make sense. Her trajectory isn't that different than Atticus Ross and Trent Reznor. They won an Oscar for Social Network and started to get gigs from directors looking for Avant-garde scores. 
 
And since Hildur Guðnadóttir won an Oscar and is critically praised, she is already proven right? Or do you mean she has to prove herself to the 200 people posting here at JWfan.com?
 
Lastly, we know women can write as good as men. How is this still a question today? You don't think Debbie Wiseman, Rachel Portman, Pinar Toprak, Anne-Kathrin Dern, and others can write as good as men? Not every guy is writing John Williams level scores.  

Congratulations! You just described the output of every composer in the history of western art music and film music! And if you argue otherwise about even a single one, you’d only be showing your lack of familiarity with their body of work.
 
The more you listen to a single composer’s work, the more you will find musical similarities and techniques applied regularly across different pieces. You will eventually begin to notice more subtle stylistic references (i.e. a particular phrase structure, orchestration, cadence, etc.). This repetition of musical features over time in a composer’s body of work we call “musical voice” or “identity” and helps to distinguish one composer from another.
 
If you listened to any other composer’s output to the same detailed extent as you did John Williams, you would have no choice but to agree. Our limitations as humans prevent us from discovering this is true for each individual case - If we had infinite time and memory, this would be no problem.
 
I challenge you, even among the greatest composers of all time (Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Wagner, Ravel, Debussy, Bartók, Vaughan Williams, the list goes on), can you honestly tell me there is not the same balance (more or less) between original material and self-references that you find in Williams? I would even argue that JW has one of the best ratios of original:recycled material among the greatest film composers (Steiner, Korngold, Bernstein, Herrmann, Morricone, Goldsmith, Horner, etc.).

You seem to be bringing plenty yourself. And I would also be careful to not confuse originality with quality. A well made chair is still a chair. Williams is a more subtle craftsman in his later years, and his intricacies and beauties less obvious, but his delight in the acute art of orchestration, harmony, rhythmic spontaneity, and melodic invention have not lessened in any of the examples I mentioned. 

I really don't understand this thinking because he never has worked with one composer more than once. Hell, given his first movie (Monsters) was composed by Jon Hopkins, I'd argue Zimmer is more appropriate for his initial sensibilities than the two he's more known for working with on pre-existing franchises.
 
But then I suppose an immediate response would be "well why didn't he offer The Creator to him then?" :p