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Nick Parker got a reaction from artus_grayboot in GALAXY'S EDGE - New John Williams composition (2018)
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Nick Parker got a reaction from artus_grayboot in GALAXY'S EDGE - New John Williams composition (2018)
John Williams has delivered hours of powerful music where there was not a lot to go off of, if anything what you say makes it more disappointing!
There's a couple cool moments that I pointed out when this first came to be posted, and I do like the end where it gets more Prequel planet, but man that beginning melody is really limp to me. Don't get me wrong, the 2000's is my favorite period of Williams' career, but sometimes his melodies started to feel like they were just constructed from a scale...you know what I mean? It's hard to explain, but a theme like Raider's March, yeah, of course, it's built from scales, but it doesn't sound like that to me, it goes beyond that and establishes a character.
Melodies like this one in Galaxy's Edge just sound like, well, pleasing notes sequenced from a scale.
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Nick Parker got a reaction from artus_grayboot in GALAXY'S EDGE - New John Williams composition (2018)
It reminded me of The Mission and Great Performances more than anything.
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Nick Parker got a reaction from bollemanneke in Anybody else find the cue The Hunt from The Lost World to be overrated?
Anybody else find the "no personal insults" rule to be overrated?
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Nick Parker reacted to Romão in SPOILER TALK: Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny
This will be a fairly long and scattered post with my thoughts on the movie, so please bear with me.
I ended up enjoying this more than I expected, but I reckon it’s much more due to the ideas and concepts it presents than the execution itself, which I actually found to be considerably lacking.
First of all, I used to think you cannot possibly make an Indy movie without Harrison Ford. And while that remains to me as true as ever, I feel even more strongly now that you cannot make an Indiana Jones movie without Steven Spielberg. And even accounting for the shortcomings of KOTCS, the fact is that his directorial flair, his camera setups, his cinematic language are so integral to what made those first three films what they are, that when you remove him from the equation, you might have something that occasionally looks like the real thing, but it definitely does not move like the real thing.
And that’s one of the main problems I have with this movie. It is bloated. It has quite a bit of fat that absolutely needed to be trimmed off. Scenes drag a bit longer than they should. Things are shown and never implied. Some subplots either go nowhere or serve no narrative purpose whatsoever. And say what you will about those first three movies, they don’t have an ounce of fat in them. They are 2 hour movie trailers, and I mean that in the best possible way.
And one of the main reasons why those movies move so fast and feel so breezy without ever feeling rushed or that crucial scenes were left on the cutting room floor comes down to Spielberg’s visual storytelling, by which with just a few seconds of footage, important information is given to the audience. Or how he can accomplish in a single shot what lesser directors need 4 or 5 separate shots to accomplish, with the necessary accompanying cuts A few examples:
We had none of these camera setups in this movie. And it robs the movie of the energy, thrust and propulsive narrative that is so integral to the original trilogy.
And it’s a bit of a shame, really. I’m among the ones that thought that making another Indiana Jones movie was an awful idea. And yet, on a purely conceptual level, I do think Mangold’s approach, story ideas and concepts are actually pretty solid. They would’ve sold me on the project:
The Macguffin is fascinating and interesting, while still being different enough from previous Macguffins and is tied thematically to the inevitability of incorporating Indy’s aging into the story. They found a really ingenious way to have a Nazi villain in the 60’s, by making him a cryptonazi that was recruited through Operation Overcast and was instrumental in USA’s Space Program. The plan of the main villain and the way to achieve it was somewhat surprising and interesting. The opening sequence was really enticing on a conceptual level.
And yet, I feel like all these great ideas came up invariably short.
The quest for the Dial felt like a series of fetch quests, getting from point A to B through almost instantaneous puzzle solving, with the villains chasing the heroes and catching up with them at each destination. And although I do give the movie credit for trying something really bold and different for the movie’s climax, I do wonder if it wouldn't have been cooler if they actually went back to the days of WW2. And one thing that really bothered me is that the last lesson Indiana Jones ever gave was about the Battle of Syracuse and Archimedes’ involvement in it. I mean, how convenient can you get? In all previous movies, the subject of his classes was always unrelated to the story’s main quest.
Voller’s role in the Space Program and his recruitment through Operation Overcast was barely alluded to. It would’ve been more interesting if he was spearheading a whole secret Nazi revival within Nasa itself or something. As it stands, he just seemed like a really prestigious scientist that had two goons at his service and that was the full extent of his influence. The rest of the devotees that joined him in that doomed final flight felt they came out of nowhere.
His plan to try to assure Nazi victory by killing Hitler was a cool concept that really could’ve been further explored. And the revelation of this intent is done in such a matter-of-factly way that it really loses a lot of its potential impact. I wonder if they did indeed went back to 1939 and could have had some interesting moral dilemmas in whether to allow Voller to go through with his plan or not. Would murdering Hitler save more lives down the road or would it indeed bring the victory of Nazi Germany with the long term terrible consequences attached to it?
As for the opening sequence, it really won’t go in the de-aging process. It works mostly fine and it really was the only way to tackle this sort of sequence. The setting was great, the concept really cool, but it was simply overlong, overdone and a bit repetitive. And the whole thing with the Spear of Longinus being a fake and Voller suggesting his superiors to take the Antikythera instead felt a bit nonsensical. The sequence with the anti-air guns hitting the carriages as the train traveled through a large bend were admittedly exciting, but there’s no helping the feeling that Spielberg would’ve had a field day with this sort of material.
Another shortcoming I think the movie has is the humor. The verbal jokes rarely land, while the visual jokes, so integral to the Indiana Jones series, are few and far between.
But again, the main problem is the bloat, the fat. And not only it is found in the sequences themselves, but also on totally irrelevant plot threads and characters. The CIA tailing Indiana Jones, the subway chase, Indiana Jones crashing the Apollo Astronauts ticker tape parade, Helena’s Short Round-like sidekick…all of those could’ve been totally excised without the movie really being any worse for it. In fact, I think 90% of the New York scenes could’ve been cut altogether. Plus, stuff like Helena’s ex boyfriend chasing them in Algiers. It just unnecessarily pads the movie and drags the whole thing down.
I must give the movie some credit for indulging far less in fan service that I was expecting, although I disliked every single moment they went for it: Salah’s scenes, the totally pointless bug tunnel scene in Syracuse, Indy casually mentioning drinking the blood of Kali, Indy and Marion replaying their kissing scene on the boat from Raiders. All of those could’ve been cut without any harm done to the movie.
The musical quotes, although I understand their purpose and dramatic effectiveness, bother me to no end and I find them particularly deflating as I considered that on a conceptual level, JW absolutely knocked it out of the park in giving musical identity to the various characters, objects, factions and concepts in the movie. The new themes are all fantastic and really provide an enormous extra layer of character, weight and significance to the movie. The frantic and never ending editing process of the action sequences probably didn’t give him all the opportunities for greater musical coherence. I absolutely love the music for the Siege of Syracuse scenes.
I’m probably coming across much harsher on the movie than I intended, but it irks me that the movie had a really good premise (something I thought beforehand was really hard to achieve given the circumstances), only to squander all the potential of the story with a somewhat lackluster and uninspired execution. There’s something off about the tone, about the pace, about the blocking, about the humor. It doesn’t really feel like an Indiana Jones movie.
It mostly looks like one. John Williams ensures it sounds like one, for the most part. But it’s a sort of doppelganger. On the whole, it is a superior movie than Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. But as I read on the Mixnmojo forums, KOTCS was awful, but at least it was an awful Indiana Jones movie, whereas this one, while being, on the whole, a better movie, it is an above average movie wearing an Indy mask.
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Nick Parker got a reaction from Manakin Skywalker in John Williams video featurette for Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny
Ugh I HATE Kathleen Kennedy, that phony witch. She claims to love John Williams, but she can't even pretend to care about his actual music to get the facts straight. Three notes? I bet she was thinking about Mutt's Theme.
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Nick Parker got a reaction from Courtney Sees Ghosts in John Williams video featurette for Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny
Ugh I HATE Kathleen Kennedy, that phony witch. She claims to love John Williams, but she can't even pretend to care about his actual music to get the facts straight. Three notes? I bet she was thinking about Mutt's Theme.
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Nick Parker got a reaction from Damien F in John Williams video featurette for Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny
Ugh I HATE Kathleen Kennedy, that phony witch. She claims to love John Williams, but she can't even pretend to care about his actual music to get the facts straight. Three notes? I bet she was thinking about Mutt's Theme.
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Nick Parker got a reaction from Chewy in John Williams video featurette for Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny
Ugh I HATE Kathleen Kennedy, that phony witch. She claims to love John Williams, but she can't even pretend to care about his actual music to get the facts straight. Three notes? I bet she was thinking about Mutt's Theme.
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Nick Parker got a reaction from Brando in John Williams video featurette for Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny
Ugh I HATE Kathleen Kennedy, that phony witch. She claims to love John Williams, but she can't even pretend to care about his actual music to get the facts straight. Three notes? I bet she was thinking about Mutt's Theme.
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Nick Parker got a reaction from HunterTech in John Williams video featurette for Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny
Ugh I HATE Kathleen Kennedy, that phony witch. She claims to love John Williams, but she can't even pretend to care about his actual music to get the facts straight. Three notes? I bet she was thinking about Mutt's Theme.
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Nick Parker got a reaction from Not Mr. Big in John Williams video featurette for Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny
Ugh I HATE Kathleen Kennedy, that phony witch. She claims to love John Williams, but she can't even pretend to care about his actual music to get the facts straight. Three notes? I bet she was thinking about Mutt's Theme.
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Nick Parker reacted to Ludwig in BOOK - John Williams's Film Music - by Emilio Audissino
Thanks for clarifying, Emilio. You raise good points here. Still, the first four points you mention are circumstantial rather than definitive. It's that last one that seems strange, as you say. And that's where I think there has been a great deal of misinterpretation by others, inferring that Star Wars was originally to have a Kubrick-style compilation score. You do allow for an alternative in your book, so I'm not saying there's anything the matter with your fine work. I only think there is some confusion that needs to be cleared up.
In any case, the alternative you presentn is that Lucas wanted pre-existing classical music arranged as leitmotifs. And yes, that would account for Williams' quote, but it doesn't sit well with other pieces of evidence. First, why would Spielberg recommend Williams coming off of Jaws if that was the case? Williams had never arranged for Spielberg, so the recommendation would seem inappropriate. But most of all, there are two quotes from Lucas himself that have not been accounted for in arguments for a compiled or arranged score. I give these below (from The Making of Star Wars).
Quote 1 - Lucas on why he chose Williams
Quote 2 - Lucas on what type of score he wanted
If one combines these quotes with the "strange" one Williams gives, and if we are to believe that they are all credible, then the compilation idea starts to fall apart. The only way these quotes all seem to agree is if what Lucas was talking about was a score in which the themes were from classical works, as you say, but were re-composed into a new original score, something like Steiner's Casablanca. There, Steiner uses "As Time Goes By", the Marseillaise, the Deutschlandlied, and "Die Wacht am Rhein", but they're used as raw material for an original score. No one would call Steiner's score compiled or even arranged. It's an original score based on pre-existing themes, which is quite different from a complied or arranged score.
Consider also that, in talking with Lucas, Williams says that "I felt we needed our own themes". So clearly, the themes were going to be unoriginal. But they're re-use throughout the score would have to have been planned to be original from the start. And this is the confusion that needs to be cleared up (again, from all past sources, not your book per se). The Kubrick-style score is, for me, one of the great myths of the plans for the Star Wars score.
Again, congratulations on a very fine book. Hopefully there will be more from you on Williams in the years to come.
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Nick Parker reacted to crocodile in BOOK - John Williams's Film Music - by Emilio Audissino
I received this today as a belated Christmas present from my friend. Very thoughtful.
Karol
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Nick Parker got a reaction from michael_grig in The Composer's Thread
Love reading everyone's supportive comments on here!
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Nick Parker got a reaction from Remco in Prelude for Piano and Orchestra (new Williams composition - premiered June 2021; Albany Symphony performance & recording coming 2022)
The prelude is absolutely beautiful and I love how metal Williams' piano writing can be, but I've felt for a long time that Williams can fall back on a lot of familiar territory in his concert music and seems to lean heavily on writing for particular instruments to escape the molds he's created for himself. When he doesn't have the idiosyncrasies of those instruments to force him to explore, you get something like this scherzo, which sounds almost temp-tracked and warmed over from...well, his scherzo in the Cello Concerto. Combine that with a pretty limp and wet-noodled motif that others have pointed out fits right in as a mid-tier supporting melody in a post-00s score, and I don't think the end result is very successful, some badass moments and effects notwithstanding.
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Nick Parker got a reaction from ragoz350 in Prelude for Piano and Orchestra (new Williams composition - premiered June 2021; Albany Symphony performance & recording coming 2022)
The prelude is absolutely beautiful and I love how metal Williams' piano writing can be, but I've felt for a long time that Williams can fall back on a lot of familiar territory in his concert music and seems to lean heavily on writing for particular instruments to escape the molds he's created for himself. When he doesn't have the idiosyncrasies of those instruments to force him to explore, you get something like this scherzo, which sounds almost temp-tracked and warmed over from...well, his scherzo in the Cello Concerto. Combine that with a pretty limp and wet-noodled motif that others have pointed out fits right in as a mid-tier supporting melody in a post-00s score, and I don't think the end result is very successful, some badass moments and effects notwithstanding.
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Nick Parker reacted to TownerFan in Prelude for Piano and Orchestra (new Williams composition - premiered June 2021; Albany Symphony performance & recording coming 2022)
Now on YouTube as well:
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Nick Parker got a reaction from WilliamsStarShip2282 in All-Star ‘Peter Gunn’ Session With John Williams, Quincy Jones, Herbie Hancock Pays Tribute to Henry Mancini
i need this fucking performance NOW
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Nick Parker got a reaction from bollemanneke in Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion
I think I said this in Discord a week or so ago, but I listened to the Chamber of Secrets OST for the first time ever, and I was shocked, after having ignored the score since the beginning of my JWFandom, by how "vintage" a lot of the score was...so many classic sounding Williams devices that even for my favorite year for Williams (2002), I thought, "Man, I didn't know he still wrote like this then."
Really puts his most recent scores in perspective...they just sound so...bare and stale compared to the rich, present writing of scores like Chamber of Secrets.
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Nick Parker got a reaction from HunterTech in The Fabelmans - score mentions in film reviews
Listening to The Fury while reading this thread was a mistake, jesus christ this is too intense.
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Nick Parker got a reaction from Loert in John Williams executes Order 66 on sheet music
I was actually really surprised to learn in the somewhat recent past that unofficial arrangements were allowed to be sold on sites such as Musicnotes. It doesn't surprise me that axe was heaved on that, but your question is mine as well: you can't tell me the legal teams and whoever else didn't consider any of these factors before it was even allowed. So if that's the case, why was it even allowed to begin with? Why now of all times to shut the valve off?
I immediately wonder if there's something coming down the pipeline as far as some kind of score/sheet music release. Over the last decade, Williams has increasingly entered legacy mode, such as doing a retrospective project like Across the Stars, but more immediately relevant to this conversation, acquiescing to a person he trusts--Mike Mattesino--to handle archival releases of his recorded music...we also know that this happened in part 'cause Mattesino used Williams' disdain for bootlegs/unofficial representations of his work to drive the wedge in for an official, professional curation of his work.
Could the same thing have happened with his written music? ......
I mean of course as John Williams fans we're always blessed with what we want from Williams immediately so the answer is yes.
fourteen year old me wouldve freaked the fuck out if i saw the st pianobooks
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Nick Parker got a reaction from Joni Wiljami in The Fabelmans - score mentions in film reviews
Listening to The Fury while reading this thread was a mistake, jesus christ this is too intense.
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Nick Parker got a reaction from eitam in The Fabelmans - score mentions in film reviews
Listening to The Fury while reading this thread was a mistake, jesus christ this is too intense.
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Nick Parker got a reaction from Holko in Yo-Yo Ma Plays Music of John Williams
It's such a bitchin' album, I think pound for pound it's Williams best album of concert music. Though I've really grown to love the Memoirs-ified opening of the revised Cello Concerto, the heraldic bon-voyage fanfare that opens this version is great. With parts like the Scherzo, you can definitely tell this came around the time of Jurassic Park!
I don't listen to Heartwood very often--once every five years or so--but its fat stacks of brass chords, deep-roots pedal tones and branch-like reaching, yearning string melodies touches my soul everytime I hear it. --Yep, listening to it now, holy crap.
The Three Pieces for Solo Cello are pretty cool, and I love seeing the side of Williams that resonates with and explores black American history: I've said it many times, but behind trees, it's probably his most consistent inspiration.