Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull vs. The Dark Knight

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Partially, but I've experienced much more arguing than agreement here.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

thats a good thing then.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Discussion: good.

Arguing: not so much.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

Sometimes I wish this place was more like the HZ Forum, where there is absolutely no hostility, because everyone is in agreement and harmony. They all appreciate the music everyone here loves, and they love RCP. Everyone here cannot accept anything aside from their own extreme views, and I can even fall into that description. I went over there once, and there was a post: a guy saying he heard JW called HZ the greatest modern composer today. I replied saying HZ probably said JW is the greatest composer ever. He replied apologizing saying that his facts must have not been reliable. I was stunned that I didn't go into endless pages of arguments. I was trying to be a little pushy too. It's a pretty nice place down there.

Enter there and diminish-bash Zimmer talents and quality of music and you will have your hostility.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Sometimes I wish this place was more like the HZ Forum, where there is absolutely no hostility, because everyone is in agreement and harmony. They all appreciate the music everyone here loves, and they love RCP. Everyone here cannot accept anything aside from their own extreme views, and I can even fall into that description. I went over there once, and there was a post: a guy saying he heard JW called HZ the greatest modern composer today. I replied saying HZ probably said JW is the greatest composer ever. He replied apologizing saying that his facts must have not been reliable. I was stunned that I didn't go into endless pages of arguments. I was trying to be a little pushy too. It's a pretty nice place down there.

Enter there and diminish-bash Zimmer talents and quality of music and you will have your hostility.

No you won't, because they don't get pissed off by people. I shouldn't get pissed of by Joe, but I do sometimes.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Discussion: good.

Arguing: not so much.

wrong

its the only thing to give this place life during the doldrums

[King Mark 3,631]

were in for pretty long doldrums

[Lurker 5]

Bring back Neal Hefti!

Neil

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

nana-nana-nana-nana-nana-nana-nana-nana--BATMAAAAAN!

They actually reference that theme in The Batman.

[DigitalfreakNYC 59]

It's not easy to compare the two.

One is a fun old-time adventure film and the other is a much more serious artistic dark take on a comic book character.

Apples to oranges.

If you're asking which is more enjoyable, that's Indy by far. If you're asking which was done better, I'm gonna have to go with Batman. They both, however, have positives and negatives.

[222max 1]

This is no contest. The Dark Knight is a superior film in nearly every way I can name. Music is another story but then again, The movie is so good on its own merits that the score is not a deal breaker.

And there were parts of Indy 4 which were just bad. I can't say that about TDK. In fact there were more than a few moments in Crystal Skull where I was squirming in my seat, not from the thrills but from the awfulness.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

While we're at the subject of MV/RC music: Although John Williams was always my favourite composer, I used to like Hans Zimmer. However, the more I hear from him and the other people from MV/RC, the more I lose interest. That type of music was nice when it started, but it grows old fast. At least for me it does. The opposite goes for "proper" orchestral music, in which I keep discovering more things to like. I still like some of the MV/RC music and some of it actually is very good, but my favourite remains and always will be it's orchestral counterpart.

I am also becoming SERIOUSLY fed-up with every action/adventure film being dark and dramatic. That is why I like Indiana Jones IV a lot more than The Dark Knight. I haven't even seen TDK, but I am absolutely certain that my viewing of the film would only enhance that opinion.

Also I've had enough of superhero films in general. There's just too bloody darn much of them these days and most of them are hardly enjoyable to me. I liked the first two Spiderman films, but I don't even have any interest in seeing the third. As far as I'm concerned, the best modern superhero film was The Incredibles. What I would like to see is some other old genres being resurrected, such as the adventure film, the swashbuckling/pirate film and the western. And in a FUN, non-dark/dramatic kind of way.

[222max 1]

I am also becoming SERIOUSLY fed-up with every action/adventure film being dark and dramatic. That is why I like Indiana Jones IV a lot more than The Dark Knight. I haven't even seen TDK, but I am absolutely certain that my viewing of the film would only enhance that opinion.

Hmm. I can't see how you can say that. Iron Man, Hulk, Spiderman and so forth are no darker than any of the Indy adventures. What they do have is what they've always had... in in comic book form. Moral themes and tragedy in some form or another.

There are certainly enough bright, pop corn movies to go around. In addition to Indy, we have Journey to the Center of the Earth, The Mummy 3, Any number of CGI animated features and really, Iron Man was as breezy as you could make a comic book movie. In the end it comes down to not how light or dark a film's tone is but how good the film is. It all depends on what entertains you. I sat through Indy 4 with that same odd feeling I had when watching The Phantom Menace, waiting to actually care.

Give me dark and dramatic any day of the week if this is what truly passes as entertaining.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

The Dark Knight hands down.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Also I've had enough of superhero films in general. There's just too bloody darn much of them these days and most of them are hardly enjoyable to me. I liked the first two Spiderman films, but I don't even have any interest in seeing the third. As far as I'm concerned, the best modern superhero film was The Incredibles.

The Dark Knight is unlike any superhero movie you will ever see. The only thing that makes it a superhero is Batman.

What I would like to see is some other old genres being resurrected, such as the adventure film, the swashbuckling/pirate film and the western. And in a FUN, non-dark/dramatic kind of way.

Adventure - I guess The Mummy movies may count.

Swashbuckling/Pirate - Pirates Of The Caribbean

Western - 3:10 To Yuma, Open Range, and The Three Burials Of Melquiades Estrada, to name a few. The western hasn't gone anywhere.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Hmm. I can't see how you can say that. Iron Man, Hulk, Spiderman and so forth are no darker than any of the Indy adventures. What they do have is what they've always had... in in comic book form. Moral themes and tragedy in some form or another.

I do like the first two Spidermans (haven't seen the third). I haven't seen Iron Man. I did see the first Hulk film, which I thought was absolute drivel and I don't usually say that about films. I even like Cutthroat Island, First Knight, King Solomon's Mines, Congo and even Conan the Destroyer. I haven't seen the new Hulk.

The Dark Knight is unlike any superhero movie you will ever see. The only thing that makes it a superhero is Batman.

It's not the fact that it is a superhero movie that causes my disinterest. It's the darkness and the fact I really didn't like what I saw from the first film. A gas that makes you see nightmares? That's no fun.

Adventure - I guess The Mummy movies may count.

I'm looking forward to the third. Shame it's being released the very day after I leave for six months. Same goes for Wall-E.

Swashbuckling/Pirate - Pirates Of The Caribbean

I liked the first very much, but the second and third are actually the main films I base my opinion on. I do like parts of them, but on the whole they took an unnescessary route of being too dark and dramatic for me to consider them on par with the first. Most unfortunate indeed.

Western - 3:10 To Yuma, Open Range, and The Three Burials Of Melquiades Estrada, to name a few. The western hasn't gone anywhere.

Are those fun ones or realistic dramatic ones? I'm not familiar with any.

[Henry B 50]

So...

Good movie = fun. Bad movie = dramatic.

[222max 1]

It's not the fact that it is a superhero movie that causes my disinterest. It's the darkness and the fact I really didn't like what I saw from the first film. A gas that makes you see nightmares? That's no fun.

If that bothered you then you'd better skip The Dark Knight altogether. It will probably give you nightmares.

[indy4 155]

For some cases, I agree. The Bourne Ultimatum was too gloomy and dramatic for my tastes.

But it really does work in TDK (this is coming from someone who hated BB).

[222max 1]

For some cases, I agree. The Bourne Ultimatum was too gloomy and dramatic for my tastes.

But it really does work in TDK (this is coming from someone who hated BB).

I really don't understand all this about movies being TOO dramatic. Isn't that what film is all about? Drama??? If you just want to be entertained then watch cartoons.

[Desplat13 1]

Nope, sorry. Drama is just one genre, with aspects that get worked into most other genres. But no, movies are not all about drama.

[222max 1]

Nope, sorry. Drama is just one genre, with aspects that get worked into most other genres. But no, movies are not all about drama.

Nope, sorry, don't agree with that at all. Drama is not a genre. Drama is a integral part of story, regardless of genre. Even comedy has elements of drama.

But one thing I can say is that Indy 4 lacked in any real drama. Raiders was full of it and managed to be as entertaining as heck. But The Dark Knight is a cut above even Raiders in that it thrills and intrigues both at the same time.

[Desplat13 1]

Nope, sorry......

Like I said, I consider drama to be a genre, with elements in nearly every other genre. I consider the drama genre to be the one that appeals to very strong emotions, and likes to fling the audience between them. Many good comedies have elements of drama in them, for sure, but they are not dramas. They are comedies. Same with action/adventure. Drama certainly should get worked in there, but they are not drama movies, they only have those elements. Practically all movies are genre combinations, it is just some of them lean heavily one way, while others lean different ways. But good movies take what will help the story from all the different genres and put them in. The predominant genre is decided by what the director (and others involved) want to get across.

I consider The Dark Knight to be a combination of the following genres, in order:

Suspence

Action

Drama

Horror (to a much lesser degree)

These elements combine to tell the story Christopher wanted told. This one is hard to classify, because it has quite an even smattering of the first three listed. But it seems silly to me to classify Raiders of the Lost Ark as drama, when it clearly is predominately adventure. That does not mean that it doesn't have elements of drama in it, but it would not be classified as drama.

I could easily be wrong here, that is just how I had always thought of it.

[222max 1]

Nope, sorry......

Like I said, I consider drama to be a genre, with elements in nearly every other genre. I consider the drama genre to be the one that appeals to very strong emotions, and likes to fling the audience between them. Many good comedies have elements of drama in them, for sure, but they are not dramas. They are comedies. Same with action/adventure. Drama certainly should get worked in there, but they are not drama movies, they only have those elements. Practically all movies are genre combinations, it is just some of them lean heavily one way, while others lean different ways. But good movies take what will help the story from all the different genres and put them in. The predominant genre is decided by what the director (and others involved) want to get across.

I consider The Dark Knight to be a combination of the following genres, in order:

Suspence

Action

Drama

Horror (to a much lesser degree)

These elements combine to tell the story Christopher wanted told. This one is hard to classify, because it has quite an even smattering of the first three listed. But it seems silly to me to classify Raiders of the Lost Ark as drama, when it clearly is predominately adventure. That does not mean that it doesn't have elements of drama in it, but it would not be classified as drama.

I could easily be wrong here, that is just how I had always thought of it.

I respect what you're saying and can even see where you're going. I guess I don't categorize it as if i was at Blockbuster and looking for movies in the "Drama" section and thrillers in the "Thriller" section. To me drama is an integral part of any story. It will vary to degree from movie to movie but I must have drama. The more the better.

I agree that The Dark Knight transcends and overlaps into many territories. It's just a testament to how good it is. It's many things at once and does all of them almost equally well. With Indy 4 take away the big action set pieces and suddenly there's not much left. I was fully engaged with TDK even when there were no big action sequences because the level of unfolding drama kept me in the movie. That's why I think it's leagues beyond the Indy movie.

[Romão 2,274]

As much as I loved Indy, The Dark Knight is, simply put, one of the most breathtaking movie experiences of my life.

[indy4 155]

For some cases, I agree. The Bourne Ultimatum was too gloomy and dramatic for my tastes.

But it really does work in TDK (this is coming from someone who hated BB).

I really don't understand all this about movies being TOO dramatic. Isn't that what film is all about? Drama??? If you just want to be entertained then watch cartoons.

I like drama, but sometimes I feel there's too much.

I guess that because TBU is a type of film with impossible stunts and near invincible characters (something that's far-fetched in terms of reality), I prefer those types of films to be more cartoony and less realisitc, to follow suite with their stunts.

[DigitalfreakNYC 59]

As much as I loved Indy, The Dark Knight is, simply put, one of the most breathtaking movie experiences of my life.

I will be very very VERY happy when all of this Dark Knight crap has worked itself out of the internet. The fanboys have turned the net into Batman-central the last couple of weeks. The Dark Knight is nowhere near as good as everyone makes it out to be. There are lines of dialogue in it that are outright atrocious and takes itself far too seriously. Plus, the processing done to Bale's voice when he's Batman is one of THE dumbest ideas, second only to shooting in two different aspect ratios. Caine and Freeman are wasted and Gyllenhaal is mis-cast (dare I say that I actually like Mrs. Tom Cruise better?)

Is it a good movie? yes. Is it as good as fanboys say it is? Hell no. Did I like Batman Begins more? YES. Without Heath Ledger, this movie wouldn't have been much.

Perhaps my mind will change once all the hype has died down. I plan to see the movie a couple more times before it's out of theaters and I'll buy the blu-ray...but it's far from "the best superhero movie ever" as some would like you to believe. Anyone who says that must have been born after 1978 or never saw Superman: The Movie.

Batman isn't a superhero. There's little heroic about him. He's a tortured guy in a cape who's about 2 clicks away from becoming Hancock.

[Goldsmithfan 6]

Indy had some flaws to it and TDK, in my opinion, had none. It was about as close to a perfect movie we're going to get in this day and age.

Not to attack anyone's opinion but I must wholeheartedly disagree. The Dark Knight was a meandering mess in my opinion. While Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was plot driven and The Dark Knight was primarily driven by themes, making a comparison is difficult but I felt that The Dark Knight lost all direction by the final act.

[King Mark 3,631]

Also ,in TDK,so much crap was thrown at you it was hard to pay attention to the dialogue that explained the technical plot aspects going on in the film. So maybe it'll be better upon second viewing .

[Romão 2,274]

Anyone who says a Batman movie takes itself too seriously clearly does not share the way I see the character. I absolutely loved the fact it took itself serously, that's the only way to make a true Batman movie and the characters deserve no less.

[Vaderbait1 1]

Anyone who says a Batman movie takes itself too seriously clearly does not share the way I see the character. I absolutely loved the fact it took itself serously, that's the only way to make a true Batman movie and the characters deserve no less.

I agree. People are trying to compare Batman to other superheroes. He's not the same. He's one of the earliest, one of the darkest, and has one of the longest histories. With the exception of the 60s and maybe the 70s, Batman has always been serious. TDK was great because it finally took itself seriously.

And I agree, there was so much going on in the movie that made it hard to follow, but I love it. The Joker's plan was to create chaos and the movie reflected that.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Anyone who says a Batman movie takes itself too seriously clearly does not share the way I see the character. I absolutely loved the fact it took itself serously, that's the only way to make a true Batman movie and the characters deserve no less.

Can you be cold, Batman? You have eleven minutes to thaw a bird. What will you do? Chase the villain or save the boy? Your emotions make you weak. That's why this day is mine!

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

As much as I loved Indy, The Dark Knight is, simply put, one of the most breathtaking movie experiences of my life.

- You chose...poorly.

- I find your lack of faith Disturbing.

etc

[222max 1]

My main problem with KOTCS (Hate that clunky title) is that there was no sense to me that the people who made it were really trying. Too many moments were thrown up just for their nostalgia factor. It was if they were gliding on the momentum of our memories of the previous installments to make us feel warm and cozy about it all.

Plus there was just too much George Lucas silliness. The whole swinging monkeys nonsense was too dumb even for something in the Mummy series. I couldn't believe I was watching an Indiana Jones movie. It just had that whole vibe of doing what was done before but trying to out do it with CGI and more whiz-pow. Who cares? It was like an equation which didn't add up. It was Harrison Ford+Steven Spielberg+lots of stunts and action=dull and unexciting.

Every step of the way with TDK I felt the film makers had thought about this whole story deeply, had considered every character's motivation in detail and lovingly crafted every point of the film. I was left haunted by the movie and its characters long after leaving the theater. With Indy 4 the first thing I wanted to do after leaving the theater was forget.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

During Indy IV I found myself thinking, "hmm, there's a big chase with lots of danger and damage going on, and yet I'm not in the least bit thrilled."

During The Dark Knight I found myself yearning for the next scene to see what was coming up, while at the same time relishing and enjoying the hell out of every bit I saw unfolding before me at the time.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

My main problem with KOTCS (Hate that clunky title)

The Dark Knight:

[222max 1]

During Indy IV I found myself thinking, "hmm, there's a big chase with lots of danger and damage going on, and yet I'm not in the least bit thrilled."

During The Dark Knight I found myself yearning for the next scene to see what was coming up, while at the same time relishing and enjoying the hell out of every bit I saw unfolding before me at the time.

Exactly.

[King Mark 3,631]

During Indy IV I found myself thinking, "hmm, there's a big chase with lots of danger and damage going on, and yet I'm not in the least bit thrilled."

during The Dark Knight I found myself thinking ,"hmm,there's

lots of important characters dying and even coming back to life,

yet I don't care or feel any emotion"

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Good movie = fun. Bad movie = dramatic.

Good fun movie = fun, bad fun movie = dramatic.

Good dramatic movie = dramatic, bad dramatic movie = fun.

Now of course I'm generalising here; just wanted to say that.

I like drama in films that are supposed to be dramatic. In films that are supposed to be fun, of course there should be a bit of drama, but not too much.

Does it help if I say my favourite films are Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Jurassic Park and Back to the Future?

If that bothered you then you'd better skip The Dark Knight altogether. It will probably give you nightmares.

I wouldn't expect me to have nightmares, but I don't think I'd enjoy it either. Not my cup of tea.

[King Mark 3,631]

oh,TDK is a good film,but not the masterpiece people are claiming it to be

[Koray Savas 2,251]

oh,TDK is a good film,but not the masterpiece people are claiming it to be

It is a masterpiece, but I don't think I would ever include it on a Top 10 list like so many have. I would call it Best Picture quality for this year's Academy Awards.

[Delorean90 42]

During Indy IV I found myself thinking, "hmm, there's a big chase with lots of danger and damage going on, and yet I'm not in the least bit thrilled."

during The Dark Knight I found myself thinking ,"hmm,there's

lots of important characters dying and even coming back to life,

yet I don't care or feel any emotion"

That's weird. I didn't feel or think that way on either film.

[indy4 155]

I was thrilled in the Indy chase scenes, and I was shocked when

Rachel died and Gordon died/came back. I admire the nerve Nolan had to kill off Batman's girl, and in the middle of the film too, but I wasn't really feeling sad in any way. Just shocked.

[Henry B 50]

Yeah, I think it's because Rachel was recast. As good as Gyllenhaal was, it just didn't seem like the same character.

[Desplat13 1]

I was surprised by that was well, but not really sad, interestingly. I think it might have been because I never really liked her in this movie to begin with. If it had been the same actress from the first one, I probably would have been sad. But because they switched, I never felt like it was the same person as the first one.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

oh,TDK is a good film,but not the masterpiece people are claiming it to be

there is that word masterpiece again. I agree with you KM, a good film, but not a masterpiece.

[DarthDave 1]

Moved to other thread...

[QMM 4]

one of THE dumbest ideas, second only to shooting in two different aspect ratios.

You're the first person I've heard that's complained about this

[King Mark 3,631]

Despite my few negatives about the TDK,I still predict Ledger will win that post mortem Oscar .Because he does deserve it,not just as somekind of sympathy gesture.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It kinda makes me mad how everyone is saying that. For Christ's sake, it's still summer. The majority of the movies that will be nominated haven't even come out. It's kinda insulting to other actors to just ignore them and already give the award to Ledger.