The Mummy vs. The Phantom Menace, the battle of 1999 scores.

[Luke Skywalker 1,806]

Luke I'm still waiting....................

Do not nitpick me!

I just arrived home after a LOOONG day at work.

I'm compiling my crappy opinion right now.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Let go Luke!

[publicist 4,643]

I'm compiling my crappy opinion right now.

If it consists of put-downs of a score you most certainly don't know very well, why bother?

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I couldn't find , how you voted , Publicist?

[Wojo 2,453]

That scene in ROTJ is a poor choice because they made a wise decision originally to leave the scene unscored once the actual chase began.

I agree, that felt very unnatural with that much loud, busy music at the beginning of the scene. It removed the suspense. The characters were trying to be quiet to sneak up on the troopers, and the lack of music helped them be quiet.

[222max 1]

That scene in ROTJ is a poor choice because they made a wise decision originally to leave the scene unscored once the actual chase began.

I agree, that felt very unnatural with that much loud, busy music at the beginning of the scene. It removed the suspense. The characters were trying to be quiet to sneak up on the troopers, and the lack of music helped them be quiet.

Actually there IS music when they sneak up on the troopers and get into the tussle with them. Once the speeder chase begins the sound effects take over.

[Luke Skywalker 1,806]

Well, why did I say what i said?

First of all, i thought that was the main opinion of the score, much like The Patriot is regarded Williams autopilot.

I mean (but unlike patriot) many people seems to like it but i thought it was not considered a masterpiece of Goldsmith like ST:TMP or Alien are.

Well, tscore, as most desert-set film scores, has that clichéd sound of supposedly middle eastern-arabic music. There is nothing wrong with it, specially for this popcorn movie, but my reasoning is that Goldsmith didnt need to put much effort in creating that sound.

Second, Goldsmith himself expressed his distaste for the movie, so i think he was not really inspired by the movie.

Third, the complete score seems to feature a lot of tracking. And if not, it is worse, since there is not much orchestration of the cues then.

Fourth, Goldsmith composed Mulan the year before, and 13 warrior just some months before this. The mummy has cues that sound too much like Mulan's Avalanche scenes, and the main theme is very similar to that of the 13th warrior. Tha fuels my belief that Goldsmith just wanted to get done with it as soon as possible, and didnt create a score that could live entirely on its own without the danger of comparing it or mentioning ripoffs. The score truly stands on its owns, but when you hear more goldsmith of that period then its originality diminishes alot.

Anyway, it was possibly the 1st score I had from goldsmith (if not, it was second to Mulan), and I got it because I liked it a lot.

And the end credits have a redition of the love theme that is gorgeus.

But well, compared with The Phantom Menace, this score pales. If it had been any other prequel...,but TPM is a score Williams put much effort into, does feature loads of original music, and not a sole intrusive re-recording.

Please, dont feel the need to point that 'Williams has these same faults' I already know how you think of the new Williams.

[Wojo 2,453]

I think those are good points. Well said.

And for the record, I absolutely love the score to The 13th Warrior. But I have never given either Mulan or The Mummy a serious listen.

[222max 1]

Well, why did I say what i said?

First of all, i thought that was the main opinion of the score, much like The Patriot is regarded Williams autopilot.

I mean (but unlike patriot) many people seems to like it but i thought it was not considered a masterpiece of Goldsmith like ST:TMP or Alien are.

Well, tscore, as most desert-set film scores, has that clichéd sound of supposedly middle eastern-arabic music. There is nothing wrong with it, specially for this popcorn movie, but my reasoning is that Goldsmith didnt need to put much effort in creating that sound.

Second, Goldsmith himself expressed his distaste for the movie, so i think he was not really inspired by the movie.

Third, the complete score seems to feature a lot of tracking. And if not, it is worse, since there is not much orchestration of the cues then.

Fourth, Goldsmith composed Mulan the year before, and 13 warrior just some months before this. The mummy has cues that sound too much like Mulan's Avalanche scenes, and the main theme is very similar to that of the 13th warrior. Tha fuels my belief that Goldsmith just wanted to get done with it as soon as possible, and didnt create a score that could live entirely on its own without the danger of comparing it or mentioning ripoffs. The score truly stands on its owns, but when you hear more goldsmith of that period then its originality diminishes alot.

Anyway, it was possibly the 1st score I had from goldsmith (if not, it was second to Mulan), and I got it because I liked it a lot.

And the end credits have a redition of the love theme that is gorgeus.

But well, compared with The Phantom Menace, this score pales. If it had been any other prequel...,but TPM is a score Williams put much effort into, does feature loads of original music, and not a sole intrusive re-recording.

Please, dont feel the need to point that 'Williams has these same faults' I already know how you think of the new Williams.

Well put. I can certainly respect that.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I am actually very unfamiliar with The Mummy, so I will abstain from voting.

You should have just linked him to some of The Mummy music minus any visuals.

That scene in ROTJ is a poor choice because they made a wise decision originally to leave the scene unscored once the actual chase began.

Indeed (and I do love the abrupt change from silence to "Speeder Bike Chase", by the way). Ignoring the visuals and other audio, it sounded decent. As Luke mentioned a few posts or so above, it seems that Jerry Goldsmith tried a little too hard for that "stereotypical Arab sound" (or something to that effect). Of course, it is only a couple minutes of an entire score, so I will not make any real judgements on it yet.

[QMM 4]

I enjoy both of them very much

Can't really pick a favorite here

[Trent B 337]

One thing I noticed was that the theme for "The Mummy/Imhotep" was almost a direct lift from the "Black Ship" theme from "Mirror, Mirror" from the Original Star Trek series. If any of you have the second disc from Varese that has that episode score, listen to it and you'll hear what I mean.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Well, why did I say what i said?

First of all, i thought that was the main opinion of the score, much like The Patriot is regarded Williams autopilot.

I mean (but unlike patriot) many people seems to like it but i thought it was not considered a masterpiece of Goldsmith like ST:TMP or Alien are.

Well, tscore, as most desert-set film scores, has that clichéd sound of supposedly middle eastern-arabic music. There is nothing wrong with it, specially for this popcorn movie, but my reasoning is that Goldsmith didnt need to put much effort in creating that sound.

Second, Goldsmith himself expressed his distaste for the movie, so i think he was not really inspired by the movie.

Third, the complete score seems to feature a lot of tracking. And if not, it is worse, since there is not much orchestration of the cues then.

Fourth, Goldsmith composed Mulan the year before, and 13 warrior just some months before this. The mummy has cues that sound too much like Mulan's Avalanche scenes, and the main theme is very similar to that of the 13th warrior. Tha fuels my belief that Goldsmith just wanted to get done with it as soon as possible, and didnt create a score that could live entirely on its own without the danger of comparing it or mentioning ripoffs. The score truly stands on its owns, but when you hear more goldsmith of that period then its originality diminishes alot.

Anyway, it was possibly the 1st score I had from goldsmith (if not, it was second to Mulan), and I got it because I liked it a lot.

And the end credits have a redition of the love theme that is gorgeus.

But well, compared with The Phantom Menace, this score pales. If it had been any other prequel...,but TPM is a score Williams put much effort into, does feature loads of original music, and not a sole intrusive re-recording.

Please, dont feel the need to point that 'Williams has these same faults' I already know how you think of the new Williams.

that never stops you from doing that to me or Mark.

I've always said that Goldsmiths works all sound similar, but thats ok, I like that same sound. its like a progression, one long continuous score.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

I've always said that Goldsmiths works all sound similar, but thats ok, I like that same sound. its like a progression, one long continuous score.

That's true of every great composer.

[Luke Skywalker 1,806]

Please, dont feel the need to point that 'Williams has these same faults' I already know how you think of the new Williams.

that never stops you from doing that to me or Mark.

I've always said that Goldsmiths works all sound similar, but thats ok, I like that same sound. its like a progression, one long continuous score.

Need a kleenex?

What can i say, just do the same. I know someone would have said that Williams has the same faults. With acknowledging it beforehand (because i know sometimes its true), i evade starting a discussion over it and getting off-topic.

I've always said that Goldsmiths works all sound similar, but thats ok, I like that same sound. its like a progression, one long continuous score.

Its very different to speak about Style or sound of a composer than saying all his work sounds similar. I rather prefer to think Goldsmith is a better composer than that. After all there is little if any resemblance for example, between ST:TMP and Alien both released in 1979.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I've always said that Goldsmiths works all sound similar, but thats ok, I like that same sound. its like a progression, one long continuous score.

That's true of every great composer.

Horner being the best example.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

He's a great composer, like it or not.

And Luke, The Thirteenth Warrior and The Mummy sound alike because they are the same score, for the same movie.

[Luke Skywalker 1,806]

And Luke, The Thirteenth Warrior and The Mummy sound alike because they are the same score, for the same movie.

My god, i hope that the day that something similar is said about Williams never comes.

Do you really like Goldsmith?

What resemblance is there between the beowulf legend and the mummy???

[Incanus 5,724]

What resemblance is there between the beowulf legend and the mummy???

Middle East obviously. Arab who is hired to kill monstrous eaters of the dead and an adventurer defeating a Mummy in Egypt are not so different after all. Like a shadowy reflections of eachother. One could become the other. Only a slight nudge could turn then off the path, out of the light...

So yes most stuff for the Banderas' character is similar to Mummy in style but the action material is not so heavily Middle-Eastern tinged in orchestration and we have that good ol' Viking male chorus in 13th Warrior.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

No no! Luke, The Thirteenth Warrior was supposed to be the score to The Mummy. Rejected!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I've always said that Goldsmiths works all sound similar, but thats ok, I like that same sound. its like a progression, one long continuous score.

That's true of every great composer.

I guess that means Hans Zimmer is a great composer.

[Ollie 1,066]

I don't have the info in front of me but wasn't The 13th Warrior recorded shortly before Goldsmith began working on The Mummy? The 13th Warrior was a replacement score and I don't know if Goldsmith was rushed to complete it.

But Williams has had moments in back to back scores that sound similar.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I wonder if Ennio Morricone, in the midst of his 24 scores in 1 year, just grabbed some old sheet music, erased the name and wrote the new film on it.

[Ollie 1,066]

The Mummy does not sound like Goldsmith took a cue sheet from The 13th Warrior and just erased the title. I doubt Goldsmith would ever do anything like that.

And I don't really get Luke's claim about The Mummy or 13th Warrior sounding like Mulan either.

[222max 1]

Well, why did I say what i said?

First of all, i thought that was the main opinion of the score, much like The Patriot is regarded Williams autopilot.

I mean (but unlike patriot) many people seems to like it but i thought it was not considered a masterpiece of Goldsmith like ST:TMP or Alien are.

Well, tscore, as most desert-set film scores, has that clichéd sound of supposedly middle eastern-arabic music. There is nothing wrong with it, specially for this popcorn movie, but my reasoning is that Goldsmith didnt need to put much effort in creating that sound.

Second, Goldsmith himself expressed his distaste for the movie, so i think he was not really inspired by the movie.

Third, the complete score seems to feature a lot of tracking. And if not, it is worse, since there is not much orchestration of the cues then.

Fourth, Goldsmith composed Mulan the year before, and 13 warrior just some months before this. The mummy has cues that sound too much like Mulan's Avalanche scenes, and the main theme is very similar to that of the 13th warrior. Tha fuels my belief that Goldsmith just wanted to get done with it as soon as possible, and didnt create a score that could live entirely on its own without the danger of comparing it or mentioning ripoffs. The score truly stands on its owns, but when you hear more goldsmith of that period then its originality diminishes alot.

Anyway, it was possibly the 1st score I had from goldsmith (if not, it was second to Mulan), and I got it because I liked it a lot.

And the end credits have a redition of the love theme that is gorgeus.

But well, compared with The Phantom Menace, this score pales. If it had been any other prequel...,but TPM is a score Williams put much effort into, does feature loads of original music, and not a sole intrusive re-recording.

Please, dont feel the need to point that 'Williams has these same faults' I already know how you think of the new Williams.

that never stops you from doing that to me or Mark.

I've always said that Goldsmiths works all sound similar, but thats ok, I like that same sound. its like a progression, one long continuous score.

You should listen to more Goldsmith, especially 60-70's era Goldsmith. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone with a more diverse range of styles and palette changes than him during this period.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The Mummy does not sound like Goldsmith took a cue sheet from The 13th Warrior and just erased the title. I doubt Goldsmith would ever do anything like that.

I was just thinking aloud about Morricone. 24 scores in 1 year man! You'd have to be writing 24/7, especially if each one was unique and didn't sound alike. Crazy Ennio.

[Ollie 1,066]

Oh I'm sure if you listened to them all you would find some similar or identical cues.

That averages out to 2 scores a month.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

I listened to Mulan on the way to work today. There is one little action diddy in Mulan "Huns Attack" that sounds similar to "Night Boarders"

It's a propelling rhythm. I'd attribute it to style, not auto pilot.

It's a Bum-t bum-t bum-t bum-t bum-t bum-t bum-t bum-t bum-t with accompanying brass hits. The bum is a timpani, the t is like tambourines or something and really quick. In Mulan the tambourinish instruments are replaced with snares. That's all I've found so far. It's like a hyper boom-tzzz.

[Jacob 0]

But Williams has had moments in back to back scores that sound similar.

Parts of Geisha remind me of Sith. Specifically The Fire Scene and the Coming of War starting at about 4:30.

[Williamsfan301 11]

And Luke, The Thirteenth Warrior and The Mummy sound alike because they are the same score, for the same movie.

My god, i hope that the day that something similar is said about Williams never comes.

Too late. It already has. It had in 1978 when some said "Hey, Superman sounds just like Star Wars!"

[Luke Skywalker 1,806]

No no! Luke, The Thirteenth Warrior was supposed to be the score to The Mummy. Rejected!

Where you have read that? As Mark said, 13th warrior was a replacement for Graeme revell Eaters of the Dead.

I listened to Mulan on the way to work today. There is one little action diddy in Mulan "Huns Attack" that sounds similar to "Night Boarders"

It's a propelling rhythm. I'd attribute it to style, not auto pilot.

It's a Bum-t bum-t bum-t bum-t bum-t bum-t bum-t bum-t bum-t with accompanying brass hits. The bum is a timpani, the t is like tambourines or something and really quick. In Mulan the tambourinish instruments are replaced with snares. That's all I've found so far. It's like a hyper boom-tzzz.

That's the cue, I said 'AVALANCHE SCENES' which Mark must have not read it.

But Williams has had moments in back to back scores that sound similar.

Parts of Geisha remind me of Sith. Specifically The Fire Scene and the Coming of War starting at about 4:30.

For the love of god, i know it. I didnt want to create a debate about it.

The rooftops of the hanamachi has some Zam the assasin if you hear closely.

BTW i just said 13th and mummy were very similar, not that all Goldsmith music was similar... and nobody is doing a fuss about it....

[Jacob 0]

Didn't mean to gain up on you. I had recently listened to Geisha and thought the similarity was interesting. That's all.

[Luke Skywalker 1,806]

Didn't mean to gain up on you. I had recently listened to Geisha and thought the similarity was interesting. That's all.

OK

Did you found Zam the assassin?

[publicist 4,643]

I couldn't find , how you voted , Publicist?

I didn't vote. It's a crap vote, anyway. I happen to think that we can be grateful that both scores turned out as they did - but of course, it seems an ideal opprtunity for the more rabid Williams fans to let off some steam. At least that's how i interpret the prissy reaction to direct comparison of these scores...

[Williamsfan301 11]

Can you feel the love?

[Jacob 0]

Didn't mean to gain up on you. I had recently listened to Geisha and thought the similarity was interesting. That's all.

OK

Did you found Zam the assassin?

Yeah, I hear a similarity. Doesn't jump out at me like Sith does though.

[Luke Skywalker 1,806]

Didn't mean to gain up on you. I had recently listened to Geisha and thought the similarity was interesting. That's all.

OK

Did you found Zam the assassin?

Yeah, I hear a similarity. Doesn't jump out at me like Sith does though.

Yeah the sith reference is a side effect of composing the same year, the AOTC reference is more like sound, style or pure coincidence...

[Giftheck 921]

Tough, very tough one, but I'll go with TPM.

[MrScratch 294]

I do enjoy Mummy, but this one isn't even close. TPM!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Anyone else ever find themselves actually saying "Tee Pee Em" in real life?

[MrScratch 294]

Anyone else ever find themselves actually saying "Tee Pee Em" in real life?

Among my friends, we've always called it "Episode 1". Same with the other prequels, we call them by their episode number. Probably because we've been talking about them before they were given proper titles.

[Ollie 1,066]

I just call it Phantom Menace.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I call it best of the Prequels film and score wise.

[MSM 126]

It is.

TPM for me, for brilliant orchestration. Although Mummy is one of my fav Goldsmith scores.

[Ollie 1,066]

I'm beginning to think it may be the third best Star Wars movie. The more the years go by the less and less I like ROTJ.

I had ROTS above ROTJ & TPM but the more I think about it the less I care about anyone in that film.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I wish Lucas had just left well enough alone and never made them.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

My order is:

ESB

ANH

ROTJ

ROTS

TPM

CARAVAN OF COURAGE

And when talking about it in real-life conversation, I call it The Phantom Menace.

I wish Lucas had just left well enough alone and never made them.

As much as I like bits of them and love some of the music from them, I agree.

It's all CGI's fault...

[Ollie 1,066]

CARAVAN OF COURAGE

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Anyone else ever find themselves actually saying "Tee Pee Em" in real life?

I don't. Among my friends we call the prequels either by their episode number of their actual name. For the OT, its Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back (and whatever other short versioned of it. ie Empire) and Return of the Jedi. 'A New Hope' is pretty much only used after a conversation along the lines of:

'Lets watch a Star Wars movie!'

'Which one?'

or

'Which Star Wars movie is your favorite?'

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

I'm beginning to think it may be the third best Star Wars movie. The more the years go by the less and less I like ROTJ.

I completely agree Mark.