What Is The Last Score You Listened To? (older scores)

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

The Final Conflict can't possibly help being unsatisfactory with neither The Monastery and The Hunt included. The Mummy suite also didn't quite convince me, simply because the recording is spot on and I guess Goldsmith's late streamlined style isn't easy to recreate for a "traditional" orchestra. Plus it obviously lacks a few synths, and the transitions are a bit awkward. Which isn't to say it's bad - it's pretty good, actually, there's just not really anything that makes it particularly relevant to my ears.

 

All the other suites and bits seem terrific after a first listen though. This will be a strong candidate for re-recording awards next year.

[publicist 4,643]

1 hour ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

TFA, like Lincoln, is a crystalline example of a master working at the height of his powers and experience, on material that he is clearly invested in.  It is, again, like Lincoln, at times staggeringly impressive in its sheer rightness.  There isn't a wasted note or a dramatic misstep/exaggeration, which is maybe why some found it underwhelming.  

 

No. It's more due to the (over-) familiarity of the material, idiomatically and harmonically. You once complained about people using too much lame food analogies - this feels the same, using superior orchestral craftmanship as killer argument, a single criterion to dwarf any other - basically saying that's the best what film music could possibly offer and i don't disagree on terms of the music, per se but also its context (both playing it safe-works). You can have some fun with the refinement at work, sure, but this works both ways: one can also, rightfully, complain that he/she has heard the machinations behind it all too often. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So an artist, even in his 80's must be required to constantly reinvent himself instead?

 

How is that even realistic?

[Bespin 8,482]

John Williams - The witches of Eastwick

John Williams - Monsignor (which I absolutely need to find at a good price someday)

[Taikomochi 1,136]

8 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

So an artist, even in his 80's must be required to constantly reinvent himself instead?

 

How is that even realistic?

 

Especially in the context of Star Wars, the series that has essentially defined his career.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

True. I don't think there can be any question that Star Wars will be his most widely acknowledged legacy.

 

Which means for some here it will always be treated with some distrust.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Superman OST 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

3 hours ago, publicist said:

 

No. It's more due to the (over-) familiarity of the material, idiomatically and harmonically. You once complained about people using too much lame food analogies - this feels the same, using superior orchestral craftmanship as killer argument, a single criterion to dwarf any other - basically saying that's the best what film music could possibly offer and i don't disagree on terms of the music, per se but also its context (both playing it safe-works). You can have some fun with the refinement at work, sure, but this works both ways: one can also, rightfully, complain that he/she has heard the machinations behind it all too often. 

 

No, this isn't some attempt at a nuclear-option quasi-argument meant to silence any opposition.  It's an entirely sound reason to hold something in such esteem.  It's the same reasoning that leads to us to conceive of figures like Bach, Beethoven, and Mahler as the masters of their times, despite being far less innovators than perfecters of what had been done in the decades prior, and allows us to prize even their late, "familiar" pieces in seemingly well-trodden ground for the subtle innovations but above all increasingly sublime craftsmanship showed.  If it worked both ways as you say, then something like Die Kunst der Fuge would surely be more widely waved off as a curious late offering of the composer, but an inconsequential one, because we've heard it all before - did the man really have to do this after that torturous twofold exploration of each key he'd done years prior?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Eh, enough about Star Wars.

 

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Collection

 

My Williams do I love this set. Currently marathoning Chattaway's music from "By Inferno's Light". It's so badass! In my brain, I can just see Garak in the wall talking to himself and Worf getting the shit kicked out of him. The last score I listened to will soon be the last television show I watched! Star Trek is truly better than everything.

[Incanus 5,715]

11 hours ago, crocodile said:

I didn't get a chance to listen to The Blue Max in its entirety yesterday. just got to it now. It's probably more impressive on this recording cause it gives Goldsmith's youthful writing enough punch to impress modern listener. It's a weird blend of Golden and Silver Age that shows a promise of great things to follow. Goldsmith was clearly a hungry and eager while working on this. And I do like the suite section, even if the selection is a bit of a head-scratcher. Still, it's a nice distilled version of The Mummy is actually quite nice. Not the biggest fan of The Final Conflict section, though.

 

Karol - who finds it strange to hear Inchon music in good sound quality.

I think the suite section was bit of an afterthought if you read the liner notes or rather it grew in scope to cover an additional CD after which it became a hectic hunt for stuff to record at the last minute. Hence the sudden jump from JG's war movie scores to something like The Mummy and The Last Conflict. I think of the double CD as The Blue Max main course with a delightful dessert of 1 hour+ Goldsmith concert.

 

One thing I was particularly pleased with on the new re-recording were the renditions of the love theme that thanks to the modern recording contain that extra bit of delicate lyricism and suitable fragility.

[Quintus 5,399]

11 hours ago, publicist said:

 

No. It's more due to the (over-) familiarity of the material, idiomatically and harmonically. You once complained about people using too much lame food analogies - this feels the same, using superior orchestral craftmanship as killer argument, a single criterion to dwarf any other - basically saying that's the best what film music could possibly offer and i don't disagree on terms of the music, per se but also its context (both playing it safe-works). You can have some fun with the refinement at work, sure, but this works both ways: one can also, rightfully, complain that he/she has heard the machinations behind it all too often. 

 

This was basically my experience with the prequel scores after the The Phantom Menace. Star Wars music was "all played out" for me, I couldn't really stand the old themes anymore, the Force motif especially. But TFA must have done something right, because it's sort of reinvigorated my appreciation for the musical canon a fair bit, at least momentarily. In my case I think it helps that I can tell Williams was actually really into it again. 

 

Quintus - having to justify fondness for new Star Wars music on John Williams Fan.com again. 

[Incanus 5,715]

7 minutes ago, Quintus said:

 

This was basically my experience with the prequel scores after the The Phantom Menace. Star Wars music was "all played out" for me, I couldn't really stand the old themes anymore, the Force motif especially. But TFA must have done something right, because it's sort of reinvigorated my appreciation for the musical canon a fair bit, at least momentarily. In my case I think it helps that I can tell Williams was actually into it again. 

 

Quintus - having to justify fondness for new Star Wars music on John Williams Fan.com again. 

Don't justify it! Be fond of it!

[publicist 4,643]

8 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

No, this isn't some attempt at a nuclear-option quasi-argument meant to silence any opposition.  It's an entirely sound reason to hold something in such esteem.  It's the same reasoning that leads to us to conceive of figures like Bach, Beethoven, and Mahler as the masters of their times, despite being far less innovators than perfecters of what had been done in the decades prior, and allows us to prize even their late, "familiar" pieces in seemingly well-trodden ground for the subtle innovations but above all increasingly sublime craftsmanship showed. 

 

Let's just say i just don't find all that much compositional glory in the maestro's latest works (2005 onwards), and find the comparisons to these classical composers a bit bombastic but we have reached an impasse where i am not overly interested in hearing your and others unconditional praises as you are not in hearing my muted shrugs.

 

But like Quint, i don't feel there should be justification for perfectly reasonable viewpoints on this on either side, so let's leave it at that.

[Incanus 5,715]

Star Trek Insurrection by Jerry Goldsmith: While it shares a lot of the same DNA as the contemporary U.S. Marshals and has some pseudo-Barry pastoral moments this one is not half bad although it can't hold a candle to TMP (or even The First Contact) in my book.

 

The Good German by Thomas Newman

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

STV OST

Masters of the Universe complete score

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

8 hours ago, publicist said:

 

Let's just say i just don't find all that much compositional glory in the maestro's latest works (2005 onwards), and find the comparisons to these classical composers a bit bombastic but we have reached an impasse where i am not overly interested in hearing your and others unconditional praises as you are not in hearing my muted shrugs.

 

But like Quint, i don't feel there should be justification for perfectly reasonable viewpoints on this on either side, so let's leave it at that.

 

There's no bombastic comparison to classical composers, only an example of relevant cases where the chronology or familiarity of a work or works has no necessary bearing on how well-regarded it may justifiedly be, itself being offered as evidence for the sincerity and soundness of the preceding post. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Masters of the Universe complete score for the second time in a row.

 

I listened to it three times!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I've been reacquainting myself with one of my absolute favourite horror scores, Howard Shore's The Fly. P.S. please play this cue at my funeral.

 

 

[KK 3,307]

A classic, that one.

 

Speaking of horror scores, I was listening to Shore's Panic Room the other day, and forgot how good it was! Wish Fincer would work with him again.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I like this nastiness.

 

 

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

As much as I love Shore's later aleatoric stylings, there's something so gnarly and visceral about this through-composed approach.

 

 

Those contrapuntal brass entries from 1:44 to the end are astounding. I'm sure Bartok was an influence (Bartok Industries), who else? Jacob Druckman? Elliot Carter? Christopher Rouse?

[KK 3,307]

Yeah, love when old school Shore rips it.

 

But its always those shifting thirds that get to me.

 

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

 

12 tone prolation canons, yo.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

13 minutes ago, Sharky said:

 

Those contrapuntal brass entries from 1:44 to the end are astounding. I'm sure Bartok was an influence (Bartok Industries), who else? Jacob Druckman? Elliot Carter? Christopher Rouse?

 

This stuff reminds me also of Morton Feldman, who I think seems to be a big presence in Shore's music.  Definitely in the scores that fit with Feldman's usual mellow dissonance, like Spider, it's more obvious, but I feel like the same kind of shapes and principles are there in his more active and bombastic music too.

[KK 3,307]

21 minutes ago, Sharky said:

As much as I love Shore's later aleatoric stylings, there's something so gnarly and visceral about this through-composed approach.

 

Indeed.

 

 

I wish Shore had the courage to bring some of this more raw, visceral stuff to his concert works. But I think he feels a lot more self-conscious in that world, and thus sticks more closely to rules of classicism with which he grew up on. Shame, since given the time, I think he can whip up something pretty crazy.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

1 hour ago, KK. said:

A classic, that one.

 

Speaking of horror scores, I was listening to Shore's Panic Room the other day, and forgot how good it was! Wish Fincer would work with him again.

Underrated gem, that one. 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

1 hour ago, KK. said:

 

I wish Shore had the courage to bring some of this more raw, visceral stuff to his concert works. But I think he feels a lot more self-conscious in that world, and thus sticks more closely to rules of classicism with which he grew up on. Shame, since given the time, I think he can whip up something pretty crazy.

 

I'm not sure it's him being self-conscious.  Some of his concert pieces are quite challenging, it's really only the recent and prominently recorded ones that are intensely neo-classical and conservative.  A Palace Upon The Ruins was a bit of a departure from that but one gets the impression that he's just into a simpler idiom these days.  I hear Wagner, Schoenberg (particularly post-romantic, pre-12-tone Schoenberg), Takemitsu, Feldman, Hovhaness, Tavener, etc. in all his music, but in the piano and cello concerti he seems to be channeling Beethoven and Chopin to the complete exclusion of any of the usual sounds.

[KK 3,307]

Interesting. I'm not familiar with A Palace Upon the Ruins. That's the song cycle right? Will have to check it out.

 

And you're right, there are a lot of echoes of Beethoven and even Bach in his recent concert works, which I think is what he's been studying more frequently lately. I suppose its fairly common, having composers channel a more simple harmonic language in their twilight years (ala Stravinsky, Gorecki, etc etc).

 

It's just that Shore has spent so much of his life building such a unique vocabulary in the avant-garde medium (and I'm not just talking about his aleatory), it'd be awesome if he could put that to the test in full form. I know there was some rare piece he wrote around 2000 that was based on a primitive form of his "Manifesto" model, but I'd be curious to hear something more, and through-composed, unrestricted by the limitations of film.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Ah yes, Orbit.  A recording of that would be most welcome.  Odd music!

 

http://www.schott-music.com/shop/resources/perusal_score_files/230567/MDS_230567.pdf

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

On 19/02/2016 at 10:29 AM, Quintus said:

This was basically my experience with the prequel scores after the The Phantom Menace. Star Wars music was "all played out" for me, I couldn't really stand the old themes anymore, the Force motif especially. But TFA must have done something right, because it's sort of reinvigoratedrevivified my appreciation for the musical canon a fair bit, at least momentarily. In my case I think it helps that I can tell Williams was actually really into it again.

 

Fixed it for you.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Lee stole that word from me anyway.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Return to Oz OST

 

David Shire delivers the goods. Just a stellar 1980s fantasy score. Perfect OST. You know the drill.

[Incanus 5,715]

The Sea Wolf by Erich Wolfgang Korngold

 

The Ghost Writer by Alexadre Desplat

 

Uncharted 3 Drake's Deception by Greg Edmonson

 

The Mummy by Jerry Goldsmith

 

The Betrayal (Nerakhoon) by Howard Shore

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

Pure 70's goodness

 

 

[Incanus 5,715]

Quo Vadis by Miklós Rózsa: The music itself is still as stunning as ever and the Promotheus Records/Tadlow re-recording of the complete score is so wonderfully sensitively put together. The combination of pomp and circumstance, the Roman music, supremely melodic and lyrical and liturgical tones of the love music and Christian music produces a whole musical world, which is really the common thread of all Rózsa epics, whose scores permeate their respective movies.

[crocodile 8,014]

The Hunchback of Notre Dame by Alan Menken. A surprisingly dark and heavy score for Disney animation. I always liked the choral writing in this. While big and epic, it never went overboard in size and felt more well balanced with orchestral performance.

 

 

Karol

[Bespin 8,482]

Make it Pops! My Spotify Playlist "John Williams - That's Entertainment"

 

Happy sunday!
 

 

[crocodile 8,014]

Gods Of Egypt by Marco Beltrami

 

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,014]

It's good, definitely more old school than modern. Not what I expected, given where Beltrami is with his career these days. He's clearly paying attention to Jarre, Goldsmith and even Williams here. I'll be buying this CD when it comes out.

 

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,014]

Well, that statement is slightly overselling it only if you expect it to be The Mummy, Lawrence of Arabia and Raiders of the Lost Ark. It does borrow from all of those, and it has multiple themes. And it's orchestral. That is all I'm saying.

 

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,014]

Wise lad!

 

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I'll still blame you if I don't like it, though.

[crocodile 8,014]

Well, it is the best thing Marco Beltrami has done in quite some time. And it even has two concert arrangement of his themes on album.

 

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,014]

The influence is clear!

 

Karol

[Incanus 5,715]

I always approach a new Beltrami score with low expectations. A sound strategy I find.

[BloodBoal 7,538]