La-La Land Records' HOOK (2CD Expanded) Discussion thread

[Jay 39,429]

He was obviously talking about the "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" source music, as all the other baseball related music is on the LLL CD

[Incanus 5,801]

Right-o. But that was not so obvious to me from the post so I asked.

[Hook1991 10]

I don't mean to ask a weird question but is Hook almost sold out? (2 CD Set)

[Trent B 340]

I don't mean to ask a weird question but is Hook almost sold out? (2 CD Set)

No. The other day I had an email exchange with MV, mostly talking about Star Trek TMP. He mentioned that they're still sitting on 900 copies of Hook.

[Jay 39,429]

Trent, that was private information he told you NOT meant to be shared publicly. Please edit your post

[Trent B 340]

He didn't mention that I keep it private.

I've even mentioned before in this thread how many units they still had available.

[Wojo 2,456]

[Hook1991 10]

I know this is probably a weird question but Do we know how much the Hook 2 CD set cost to make???

[Jay 39,429]

Nope

[Hook1991 10]

I was pondering this today,,, Besides the Baseball Music that wasn't does anyone know any other music that wasn't included in the 2 CD set???

[Trent B 340]

I was pondering this today,,, Besides the Baseball Music that wasn't does anyone know any other music that wasn't included in the 2 CD set???

The cue "We Don't Want To Grow Up" was not presented in its full form as it retained the OST version. Not sure why they presented "Banning Back Home" from the music only portion of the film stems but not this cue.

The remaining "Ultimate War" pieces were not from the actual sessions but from the music only portion of the film stems as well. So "The End Of Hook" was dialed out in the middle like in the film and did not have the unused section as per the sheet music. There were also loops present as well as dips in volume.

"Pick 'Em, Up" also remained absent from this as well and should have been picked out from the music only portion of the film stems.

This put down is not directed toward MV or La-La Land as their releases have been stellar, but this is to the person in question who actually assembled the set. The layout for this set looks way to similar in regards to the old Concorde bootleg. It makes me think the person who leaked that boot many years ago is the same person who worked on this set. Oh and the particular person in question that assembled never bothered to pitch correct the Hook Trailer (aka Prologue) cue.

This makes me wish even more Mike Matessino was the one who worked on it. At least he would have made sure it would have been for the most part corrected... IE: no loops or anything like that.

[indy4 155]

Also "God Rest Ye Merry Gentleman."

[Jay 39,429]

And the Neverfeast insert, and the end of Enter Rufio

[Trent B 340]

And the Neverfeast insert, and the end of Enter Rufio

Ah yes, that too.

[crocodile 8,520]

I have to be honest. I don't like this set at all. I like many of their other releases (Williams' scores too), but this one is a letdown.

Karol

[Incanus 5,801]

Well it is a bit patchy compared to many LLL releases due to the reasons mentioned many times in this thread and that leaves me wanting a bit when the Hook set is concerned.

[indy4 155]

It sounds to me like crocodile is disappointed with the actual music Williams' wrote for Hook, which is of course an act of high treason and punishable by death.

[Incanus 5,801]

It sounds to me like crocodile is disappointed with the actual music Williams' wrote for Hook, which is of course an act of high treason and punishable by death.

Indeed! Heresy! Bring forth the torture devices and start building the gallows!

[Hook1991 10]

I really like the release. Im really happy to have "The Ultimate War" in full now. It's awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Trent B 340]

I really like the release. Im really happy to have "The Ultimate War" in full now. It's awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!

The thing is "The Ultimate War" is not 100% complete as we've stated above...

[avalanche 0]

I have to be honest. I don't like this set at all. I like many of their other releases (Williams' scores too), but this one is a letdown.

Karol

Me too, never was able to get into this score. I think it's a combination of many factors (not having seen the movie, score too long). Perhaps someday I'll get a few hours to just sit and listen to Hook through headphones for a proper appreciation.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

It sounds to me like crocodile is disappointed with the actual music Williams' wrote for Hook, which is of course an act of high treason and punishable by death.

Didn't you notice his name? He's biased!

[BloodBoal 7,541]

Damn, I should have thought of that one! I don't like having jokes I should have said being stolen from me...

[indy4 155]

It sounds to me like crocodile is disappointed with the actual music Williams' wrote for Hook, which is of course an act of high treason and punishable by death.

Didn't you notice his name? He's biased!

Damn, I should have thought of that one! I don't like having jokes I should have said being stolen from me...

[Jay 39,429]

[Joni Wiljami 1,212]

Damn, it took few seconds too long to get it, I'm getting old.

[crocodile 8,520]

Haha! No, I didn't mean the score (which is good), but this particular release. Not horrible in any way (maybe except for those volume changes), but given the long years of waiting... you get my idea.

Karol

[Trent B 340]

"Sarcasm is the recourse of a weak mind" - Dr. Smith (Gary Oldman).

[Hook1991 10]

How is "The Ultimate War" not complete? Sorry for my ignorance.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Oh dear... let me answer this before one of the others gets rude.

Ok, the film dials out twenty seconds towards the end (when the croc eats Hook). Because this particular part of the score was sourced from film stems (all La-La Land had to work with), that dialed-out portion is MIA on this album. This has actually been covered a few times in the thread.

[Incanus 5,801]

Also the two inserts written to replace a couple of segments in the opening 8 minutes of the Ultimate War (Pan appears and flies through the sail at the beginning and the moment the Lost Boys board Jolly Roger) and that appear in the film were not used for the set. This is mostly because they went with the composer's original intentions. Ultimate War on the LLL set also has those odd volume dips because it was, as Miles says above, sourced from film stems rather than master tapes which could not be found for this release. And LLL release has one instance of redundant looping in the first part of Ultimate War which is also due to using the film stems that contain the music as edited and conformed to the film. This is somewhat odd since the volume dips could have been rectified better and the looped section was in the music available even on the OST without the loop.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Thanks for adding that Incanus, I'd forgotten about the volume dips and such.

I hate to grumble about the stuff our beloved labels put out (even Varese), but I gotta concede, those dips/edits could have been handled a little better.

[Brónach 1,306]

This is somewhat odd since the volume dips could have been rectified better and the looped section was in the music available even on the OST without the loop.

Lazyness!

[Hook1991 10]

Im wondering where the master tapes are lol

[Incanus 5,801]

I am sure so are the producers of the set and all of us here.

[JoeinAR 1,953]

did it ever sell out?

[BloodBoal 7,541]

Nope. And that's why that free CD is mine! Sorry, TennisBallBrat!

[Jay 39,429]

HOOK is back in stock at La-La Land, but leaving fast for good! Less than 450 units remain of the run. Once these are gone, this wonderful John Williams title will be completely sold out.

https://www.facebook.com/lalalandrecords/photos/a.181243738754.155532.56031953754/10152312544858755/?type=1&stream_ref=10

[Jay 39,429]

LOW STOCK ALERT: Less than 150 units remain of HOOK

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=103241&forumID=1&archive=0

[rough cut 1,742]

I'm glad to see that it's selling - and for the obvious fact that I've got my copy (bought on the day of release, of course)!

The score for Hook is wonderful, and it's a shame that the LLL release seems to be getting a bum rap based solely on the 'Ultimate War'. And for all JW-fans who haven't had the time yet to give it a proper listen: start with the OST (the best and fasest way to get to know the score, it's melodical ideas and structure), fall in love, and then spend a lifetime regretting that you didn't get the 2-disc release while you could. You'll be sorry you missed out on 'Exit Music'.

The highlight of the score though is, for me, 'The Face Of Pan' - one of the most lyrical pieces of music John Williams have ever written. I love the fact that there are two versions of this track: without choir on the OST, and with on LLL. Pick your poison.

[Doo_liss 6,423]

The score for Hook is wonderful, and it's a shame that the LLL release seems to be getting a bum rap based solely on the 'Ultimate War'.

And Never-Feast insert etc.

[crocodile 8,520]

I love LLL, buy shitloads of their stuff. They're doing brilliant work all around.

However, this album is way below their standards. It just won't do. Listened to it only once.

Karol

[John Dutton 7,378]

It certainly is below their standards. As far as La-La Land's archivals/expansions go, I would go as far as to say that Hook is the worst. Album versions, missing music, pivotal music sourced from film stems with edits, weak liner notes. I realize Williams' interference is partly to blame here, but I feel this thing needed more time and different people working on it.

[Incanus 5,801]

If I remember correctly there was also the question of difficulty of tracking down all the materials to create a truly comprehensive set. E.g. the The Ultimate War and Banning Back Home (Film Version) sourced from the film stems is result of not being able to find the actual recordings for the said pieces, which is really a crying shame. Plus the "exciting editing decisions" by Williams didn't really help.

I think the disappointed for this set stems largely from high expectations and the score having a very devout fanbase who has been waiting for the comprehensive release for 2 decades.

[mstrox 6,915]

I think the disappointed for this set stems largely from high expectations and the score having a very devout fanbase who has been waiting for the comprehensive release for 2 decades.

This. Plus the bootleg. If people hadn't already been listening to the bootleg, this release would have been an amazing gift - think of all the stuff to discover.

I love it, personally. It's full of great unreleased music and, to my ears, sounds great - even the film stem stuff.

[ShowUStheHOOK 8]

I guess i'm in the minority here. I never listened to the bootlegs over the years, so this release was like a huge christmas present. lol. Can't speak for others of course, but I prefer the sound of this album over the OST. Plus, the score as a whole really lost something the way it was put together on the OST, sounds better when as much as possible is presented on disc.

[Smeltington 1,569]

Like the TPM UE, I can only ever rejoice that this was released, regardless of the issues with it. It added immensely to the raw materials that we true believers have at our disposal to make our own preferred score edits. True, I'll never listen to the actual Lalaland discs again, but worse things have happened.

Assembling and enjoying my edit was the first time I really got into this score, and I ended up including it in my Williams top 10 in Joey's poll. So in the end I'm very glad for this release.

[Jay 39,429]

La-La Land is hardly to blame for anything that happened with this set. They weren't able to hire Mike Matessino, or any of the other top notch producers they usually turn to, to produce this release. Sony had their employee Didier Deutch produce the set, who follows a different ideology than the producers of the current era of specialty label complete releases, not to mention that Sony was unable to come up with the studio recordings to the Ultimate War and a few other scenes, necessitating the use of the film's music-only stem. Maybe a different producer would have put out a call to fans who may have come into more pristine recordings, maybe not, who knows. And then after all that, you have the requirement that John Williams sign off on the content of the release, meaning OST combo-tracks were retained, some tracks were moved to the second disc instead of being in the flow of the score, etc.

Some day this release could be tackled again. It sold 5,000 copies in a little over 2 years, so there should be a market for another 3,000 for it's 30th anniversary, perhaps.

[Kühni 484]

.

[Trent B 340]

La-La Land is hardly to blame for anything that happened with this set. They weren't able to hire Mike Matessino, or any of the other top notch producers they usually turn to, to produce this release. Sony had their employee Didier Deutch produce the set, who follows a different ideology than the producers of the current era of specialty label complete releases, not to mention that Sony was unable to come up with the studio recordings to the Ultimate War and a few other scenes, necessitating the use of the film's music-only stem. Maybe a different producer would have put out a call to fans who may have come into more pristine recordings, maybe not, who knows. And then after all that, you have the requirement that John Williams sign off on the content of the release, meaning OST combo-tracks were retained, some tracks were moved to the second disc instead of being in the flow of the score, etc.

Some day this release could be tackled again. It sold 5,000 copies in a little over 2 years, so there should be a market for another 3,000 for it's 30th anniversary, perhaps.

It hasn't sold out yet but it's very close. I agree with what you said. It does suck they weren't able to get Mike Matessino on the job. Like you said you can't fault them for the issues for this. It seemed up to the studio and composer with this release.