A24 4,345 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. Where did I say Alien is all about the characters? Where, Thor? Characters or the choice of actors are a vital part of whatever you think a movie is trying to do. Take that latest Covenant footage, for instance. All you see is characters. If I don't buy half of the choices then how good can my experience be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 The characters are brilliantly effective though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,345 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 23 minutes ago, Stefancos said: The characters are brilliantly effective though! I think they were dead on for the parts and for what the filmmakers wanted to achieve. Here is an example for what is in my opinion a less successful cast: Sunshine If I'm not convinced that this is an actual crew on board of a spaceship then the movie is never going to be as good as it could be. DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 How the mighty have fallen! Hollywood is dead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,345 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Boyle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,345 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 What mighty? Who has fallen? BTW, cardboard characters and stereotyping? Alien?! This was the first time the audience ever saw a crew like that in a science fiction movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 59 minutes ago, Alexcremers said: Characters or the choice of actors are a vital part of whatever you think a movie is trying to do. Yeah, I understand what you're saying, and I'm disagreeing with your premise here. Characters or choice of actors aren't always the most important thing in a movie. It depends entirely on what the filmmaker wants to do with his film. In the case of ALIEN, neither story nor characters are particularly central to Scott's project. They are ingrained plot mechanisms, no doubt, but the film is all about atmosphere and communicating various (symbolic) ideas through image and sound. Otherwise, it would not have been the classic it is; it would just have been a forgotten genre film. That's why I'm not too worried about the slightly "goofy" characters in the COVENANT prologue. First of all, I think and hope Ridley's own film will have a very different tone, also among the characters, and second, I think the characters will be less important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 On 25/02/2017 at 4:20 PM, Thor said: Does anyone really watch the ALIEN films for the characters It's the main reason I watch them, especially in Aliens, which has the best motley crew ensemble in any movie ever. What a strange angle, Thor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, Quintus said: It's the main reason I watch them, especially in Aliens, which has the best motley crew ensemble in any movie ever. What a strange angle, Thor. Charles Dance refers to the prisoners as a "motley crew" in Alien 3! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 28 minutes ago, Quintus said: It's the main reason I watch them, especially in Aliens, which has the best motley crew ensemble in any movie ever. What a strange angle, Thor. Hardly strange. I'd argue that it's the most common 'angle' to these films, especially the first. Approaching the ALIEN films as character films is the 'odd angle', I think. As for the new trailer, I'm not quite sure what to make it. I'm not entirely sold. But I'll await value judgement untill the whole film is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 There's a difference between "approaching the ALIEN films as character films" (I don't think anybody does that) and watching them because, among other things, one enjoys the characters. But yes, the characters are absolutely vital in the first two films. Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,345 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 The trailer speaks volumes. I think I will skip Covenant. I mean, it looks so bad. Yes, especially the look of the movie, Thor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Quintus said: There's a difference between "approaching the ALIEN films as character films" (I don't think anybody does that) and watching them because, among other things, one enjoys the characters. But yes, the characters are absolutely vital in the first two films. Sure. I enjoy the hell out of them too. But IMO it's not the foremost prioritized element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Ridley must be pulling his hair out. Everyone hated Prometheus because it tried to do something different and wasn't an Alien film. Now Covenant is shit because it's a ripoff of Alien/s and we've seen it all before. The bloke can't win no matter what he does! Or the internet is just filled with people who have nothing better to do than complain about everything. I'll take an admirable effort like Prometheus that stumbles over garbage like Transformers 17 or whatever dreck Hollywood's excreting into theaters these days. Trailer looked great, film looks intriguing, they are clearly withholding stuff. It looks exactly like the film people expected from Prometheus; a blend of the first two Alien films with a hard-R rating and an expansion of the mythos, in the hands of a great filmmaker. I'm in! Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,345 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 You compare this to Alien? Only at JWfan! Compared to this, Alien feels like a esoteric art movie, the real deal. Covenant looks and feels like SyFy doing a dumb Alien ripoff. I see nothing great or intriguing in the trailer. Quite the opposite. Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 No one criticizes Prometheus because it tried to do something different. It didn't. It was the same old routine again. leeallen01 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Yep. And Covenant looks like a remake of Prometheus. So a remake of a remake! leeallen01 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 21 minutes ago, Stefancos said: No one criticizes Prometheus because it tried to do something different. It didn't. It was the same old routine again. That, plus this: 38 minutes ago, crumbs said: the internet is just filled with people who have nothing better to do than complain about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 4 hours ago, crumbs said: Ridley must be pulling his hair out. Everyone hated Prometheus because it tried to do something different and wasn't an Alien film. Now Covenant is shit because it's a ripoff of Alien/s and we've seen it all before. The bloke can't win no matter what he does! Or the internet is just filled with people who have nothing better to do than complain about everything. Not everyone! PROMETHEUS actually holds a high star among several of my film critic colleagues, including myself. But yeah -- I agree about fan reactions, most of them coming without anyone having actually seen the movie. Even if I was slightly disappointed by the 'prologue' and the latest trailer, I absolutely LOVED the first trailer, and still hoping the film is closer to that (I think the 'action aspect' was upped considerably for this new trailer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, Thor said: I agree about fan reactions, most of them coming without anyone having actually seen the movie. How do you reckon that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, Stefancos said: How do you reckon that? What?! As far as I know, the only ones who've seen the film (if it's even finished in post) are the ones involved in the production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I assume he thought you were referring to Prometheus when you said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 7 hours ago, Alexcremers said: The trailer speaks volumes. I think I will skip Covenant. I mean, it looks so bad. Yes, especially the look of the movie, Thor. Indeed. It sort of makes Prometheus look like art, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 1 hour ago, BloodBoal said: I assume he thought you were referring to Prometheus when you said that. Ah. Sorry for the confusion. I was talking about fan reactions in general (to films not yet in theatres). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Oh I agree with you there. Very often a teaser or trailer doesnt represent the finished product very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I've not watched any of the trailers and will be happy to wait and see, when I do eventually see it albeit at home. I saw Prometheus at the cinema, waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Unless certain people tell me that it's really very good, the ones that agreed with me that Prometheus was an personal insult from Scott, i wont bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,136 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 The shots in the trailer of the Alien on the ship is comical. Everything that is scary about the Xenomorph is that it's a sneaky little bastard. The 'unknown' and the 'suggested' are far more terrifying than the in-your-face. Alien is insanely terrifying because you are constantly expecting the alien to be somewhere, but you don't know where. And Aliens is more of an action film, yet it is still terrifying because during the action scenes, they just keep coming out of the walls because they bloody look like the walls! They are everywhere, and nowhere at the same time. But in this trailer, there it is, Mr. Charles Xenomorph sat on top of the ship in broad daylight asking for directions and going "GERRR ARRRGH, I'm scary." It's farcical. P.S. I loved Katherine Waterston when I saw her in Fantastic Beasts, so she alone will drag me to see this film, along with my shredded hopes of a decent experience. A24 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Why did Ridley Scott make this anyway? I thought Mr Big Artiste would have been too good for a by-the-numbers slasher sequel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 3 hours ago, Daniel Clamp said: Why did Ridley Scott make this anyway? I thought Mr Big Artiste would have been too good for a by-the-numbers slasher sequel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Paper money? So uncivilised. We use plastic notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 You strive to better yourself, and the rest of humanity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I think Ridley Scott has all the money he ever needs. No, I think it has more to do with a desire to further explore the universes he's created before it's too late -- a late-career gesture I cheer and support. Also, I wouldn't be sad if Scott only did sci fi and historical epics for the remainder of his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick1Ø66 4,722 Posted March 2, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 2, 2017 On 3/1/2017 at 0:11 PM, Alexcremers said: You compare this to Alien? Only at JWfan! Compared to this, Alien feels like a esoteric art movie, the real deal. Covenant looks and feels like SyFy doing a dumb Alien ripoff. I see nothing great or intriguing in the trailer. Quite the opposite. Yes. There's nothing in that latest trailer that's remotely original. It's way too slick, and the actors look like...actors. And act like bratty millennials. Nothing about this seems lived in. The whole thing just feels off. And worst of all, the Alien is no longer a mysterious, malevolent terror. It's an action figure...a comic book villain. That scene with the Alien trying to bust into the ship windshield was cringe worthy....a genuine jump the shark moment. Cool and fanboyish, to be sure, but so far removed from its source material as to be unrecognizable. Ridley Scott is being derivative of himself, and remaking his own movies. If Ridley Scott were a band, he'd be covering his own songs. It feels fake, it feels forced. It is derivative. And unnecessary. Nothing I've seen in either of those trailers or that awful promo comes across as the least bit genuine. When I saw the eggs, and the facehugger, I didn't think "Cool!", I thought...."again"? Why? Is there anyone among us who can't say with a reasonably high degree of certainty exactly how this film is going to play out? There are no more ways to tell this story, I'm convinced of that now. I didn't need to know and see the origins of the Aliens any more than I needed to see the Clone Wars. Somethings are better left alone, and to the imagination. leeallen01, A24, Jay and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Nick1066 said: The Alien is not longer a mysterious, malevolent terror. It's an action figure...a comic book villain. That scene with the Alien trying to bust into the ship windshield was cringe worthy....a genuine jump the shark moment. Cool and fanboyish, to be sure, but so far removed from its source material as to be unrecognizable. Depends on what you mean with 'source material'. The original film, yes, but ALIENS has bits of this, as does ALIEN: RESSURECTION (which has a similar "window" scene). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Resurrection is hardly the reference people think of when picturing the franchise and its titular monster... DarthDementous and Nick1Ø66 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,345 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 7 hours ago, Nick1066 said: Yes. There's nothing in that latest trailer that looks remotely original. It looks way too slick, and the actors look like...actors. And act like bratty millennials. Nothing about this looks lived in. The whole thing just feels off. And worst of all, the Alien is not longer a mysterious, malevolent terror. It's an action figure...a comic book villain. That scene with the Alien trying to bust into the ship windshield was cringe worthy....a genuine jump the shark moment. Cool and fanboyish, to be sure, but so far removed from its source material as to be unrecognizable. Ridley Scott is being derivative of himself, and remaking his own movies. If Ridley Scott were a band, he'd be covering his own songs. It feels fake, it feels forced. It is derivative. And unnecessary. Nothing I've seen in either of those trailers or that awful promo comes across as the least bit genuine. When I saw the eggs, and the facehugger, I didn't think "Cool!", I thought...."again"? Why? Is there anyone among us who can't say with a reasonably high degree of certainty exactly how this film is going to play out? There are no more ways to tell this story, I'm convinced of that now. I didn't need to know and see the origins of the Aliens any more than I needed to see the Clone Wars. Somethings are better left alone, and to the imagination. So true, Nick. Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 May as well throw a Predator in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 And a Terminator! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 And Jason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 9 hours ago, Muad'Dib said: Resurrection is hardly the reference people think of when picturing the franchise and its titular monster... Agreed, but it's canon whether one likes it or not. I've come to appreciate it much more over the years; as a Jeunet film more than an ALIEN film, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I usually have fun watching it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 22 minutes ago, Daniel Clamp said: I usually have fun watching it. It has some spectacularly intense scenes, like the underwater chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,345 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Resurrection is kinda enjoyable from the moment you'll accept it's a lampoon. Alex Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 The best bit is and will always be: Naïve Old Fart and Unlucky Bastard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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