Incanus 5,716 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Isn't that second theme for Gandalf more specific though, not just alternating with the primary idea heard most often in these scores merely for variety's sake?It's more a theme for the wizards as a collective.- And on unrelated note: I think what people call Gandal's secondary theme (the one that appears for example when Gandalf leaves the Company at the Trollshaws or when he shows up at Goblintown) might actually be a theme for the Istari. I mean, it first appears when Gandalf is talking about Radagast, and the character appears on screen. So I say that's possible. Thoughts?Ha!Well interpreted BB.Although it feels like a very broad meaning for such a specific and indeed sparsely used idea that always appears with Gandalf and never connects with any of the other wizards apart from the brief monologue Gandy has of the Five Wizards and by the time Radagast appears the score moves to his themes. I don't think there is much Istari-related subtextually in any of the scenes it then appears apart from Gandalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 First appearance of the theme: Gandalf is talking about the Five Wizards.Second appearance of the theme: Gandalf is being grumpy, a common trait of wizards.Third appearance of the theme: Gandalf is doing wizard stuff, something only wizards can do.There you go!Wow definitely some Istari vibe in there. Well and broadly connected BB. Well done!In BotFA Gandalf is sitting and interacting with Bilbo, definitely something only wizards would do.I'll call it Gandalf's Vague Wizardness Theme from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Adams 494 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Jim is correct.Why would a theme for wizards as a collective play when Gandalf decides to leave the company being Thorin is being a douche?For the same reason a theme for Rivendell Elves as a whole plays when Elrond gives Aragorn a sword.The score often takes a broader perspective than the film does, which is why it's able to deal with subtexts, etc. rather than just slavishly repeating what we see. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Indeed the score has a broader subtextual view but I am really interested to know how thematic material running underneath only Gandalf's actions can be interpreted as music for the wizards as a collective. I know the first time it plays establishes this kind of hint or link to the wizards as a whole but subsequently there isn't much connection to the other wizards or Istari in general, at least I can't somehow see it as a subtext in the way BloodBoal explained above. It becomes very broad interpretation indeed if the idea of wizards is reflected by this theme when it only applies to Gandalf throughout the rest of the story. Unless we haven't heard or noticed every occurrence of it in the subsequent films.I think we are debating this because Shore's music often is if not dublicating what we see, enhancing it subtextually in a highly logical way and in this case the subtext seems very very broad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Adams 494 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The text is about Radagast.Also, I asked the composer. In The Hobbit, many (most?) characters receive a personal theme and a cultural theme. This was true of Bilbo (initially), of Bard, of Thorin, of Tauriel ... and it's true of Gandalf.For whatever reason, the decision was made to downplay the other Wizards' musical identities. Some of Radagast's secondary material returned in an early draft of BOFA, but it never made it to the recording floor; Saruman's theme was never slated to reappear after its initial cameo. So this Istari theme simply ended up with Gandalf most of the time. It absolutely applies to him, so it's entirely appropriate, but it's not quite as direct and contained as his personal theme.Indeed the score has a broader subtextual view but I am really interested to know how thematic material running underneath only Gandalf's actions can be interpreted as music for the wizards as a collective. I know the first time it plays establishes this kind of hint or link to the wizards as a whole but subsequently there isn't much connection to the other wizards or Istari in general, at least I can't somehow see it as a subtext in the way BloodBoal explained above. It becomes very broad interpretation indeed if the idea of wizards is reflected by this theme when it only applies to Gandalf throughout the rest of the story. Unless we haven't heard or noticed every occurrence of it in the subsequent films.I think we are debating this because Shore's music often is if not dublicating what we see, enhancing it subtextually in a highly logical way and in this case the subtext seems very very broad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 Do you think there are any scenes in DOS or BOFA that would have been a cool spot to use the Istari theme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Adams 494 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Do you think there are any scenes in DOS or BOFA that would have been a cool spot to use the Istari theme?I suppose the climactic face-off with the Necromancer could have used it (all three Wizards were present), but it's always a question of perspective, of course. And Galadriel's material might have been lost in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 I hope that scene plays better in the upcoming extended edition of the film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The text is about Radagast.Also, I asked the composer. In The Hobbit, many (most?) characters receive a personal theme and a cultural theme. This was true of Bilbo (initially), of Bard, of Thorin, of Tauriel ... and it's true of Gandalf.For whatever reason, the decision was made to downplay the other Wizards' musical identities. Some of Radagast's secondary material returned in an early draft of BOFA, but it never made it to the recording floor; Saruman's theme was never slated to reappear after its initial cameo. So this Istari theme simply ended up with Gandalf most of the time. It absolutely applies to him, so it's entirely appropriate, but it's not quite as direct and contained as his personal theme.Indeed the score has a broader subtextual view but I am really interested to know how thematic material running underneath only Gandalf's actions can be interpreted as music for the wizards as a collective. I know the first time it plays establishes this kind of hint or link to the wizards as a whole but subsequently there isn't much connection to the other wizards or Istari in general, at least I can't somehow see it as a subtext in the way BloodBoal explained above. It becomes very broad interpretation indeed if the idea of wizards is reflected by this theme when it only applies to Gandalf throughout the rest of the story. Unless we haven't heard or noticed every occurrence of it in the subsequent films.I think we are debating this because Shore's music often is if not dublicating what we see, enhancing it subtextually in a highly logical way and in this case the subtext seems very very broad.Fair enough. I can't argue with the composer's vision and ideas. Community of Wizards theme it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 It's the Wizarding World Of Gandalf The Grey theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Interesting. Speaking of wizards, Doug - was the fight between Elrond and Saruman and the Nazgul scored? I'm guessing it would have been, though you've probably answered my question as to whether some kind action-y, heroic version of the Isengard theme was employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Adams 494 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Interesting. Speaking of wizards, Doug - was the fight between Elrond and Saruman and the Nazgul scored? I'm guessing it would have been, though you've probably answered my question as to whether some kind action-y, heroic version of the Isengard theme was employed.I don't think it was scored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,646 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 It wasn't?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 It wasn't?!The album track Guardians of the Three is almost complete, though not chronological. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 The choral music works quite nicely IMO.What needed scoring was the Gandalf/Thrain/Sauron fight!It's tracked though.I'm very surprised to hear it wasn't scored. Did Jackson initially plan for silence and then decide he wanted music when it was too late?It wasn't?!The album track Guardians of the Three is almost complete, though not chronological.This doesn't exactly give me much hope for the extended cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I suppose that's one positive way of looking at it. Beggars can't be choosers after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome in Plaid 219 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Saruman's theme was never slated to reappear after its initial cameo.I was so hoping for a heroic statement of the Isengard theme during the Guardians of the Three scene... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 We know Shore crammed an awful lot of themes into the scene already so they might have cut back on the development of the other wizards' thematic material in these scores and so Isengard theme, which inarguably is linked to Saruman's later more sinister industrial/military activities, might never have been on the table when the themes for this scene were discussed. The appearance of the motif in AUJ was just a bit of ominous foreshadowing. Heroic appearance might have been tad too much for this scene, as cool as it would have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scallenger 483 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Holy crap. The extended edition of Battle of Five Armies is Rated R! For "violence".http://www.hypable.com/hobbit-battle-of-the-five-armies-extended-edition-mpaa-rating/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 Yea, we've been discussing that in the correct thread http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=25307&p=1156032 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scallenger 483 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Grrrr. I thought I was cool for a moment. Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 But that was for content in the Appendices, was it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bofur01 245 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Yeah, it was for the Appendices of the Master's and Alfrid's "Bollocks" scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bofur01 245 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Slightly unfortunate wording there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 My BOTFA EE Soundtrack custom cover: Cerebral Cortex and Incanus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan 689 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Interesting! Is this the closest we've had to a suggestion that we will in fact be getting more music released from The Hobbit? Not sure what else it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Or perhaps Doug's book rather. Fingers crossed for more music of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 There will be fun stuff. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I like the idea of 'stuff', suggesting more than one thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 He said "Releases" Incy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 It's Inky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 YEAH!He said "Releases" Incy.I took that as any Hobbit related releases, whether they are music related or not. But I am all the happier if there are more than one score related releases in the horizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome in Plaid 219 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I don't know how much we're really missing from the latter two films, but I'd kill to have a clean version of the full Goblintown capture sequence from AUJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_vader 534 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I can imagine us getting a 2 disc set like the Star Wars Anthology Disc Four with the extra music on from the 3 films that were missing from the special edition OST's. I can't see them doing complete recording sets like Lord of the Rings, although that would make me very very happy if they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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