The Force Awakens Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (JJ Abrams 2015)

[Quintus 5,399]

I don't think Jedi is all that tonally different from the other two movies tbh, it doesn't feel particularly extra orientated towards kids than the others. It's only the inclusion of the ewoks which possibly give that impression, but I always just saw them as extentions of the muppets and puppets found in the other movies, they didn't offend my sensibilities or anything like that. They're just more daftness.

It seems to me that back in the day some of the older kids really invested a lot of maturity into the first two movies which was never there in the first place.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well, because you could see Vader slowly change his mind earlier in the film

[Ricard 2,245]

I was 19 and we went to London so we could see it two or three months earlier.

ROTJ wasn't Star Wars to me, nor was it to my friends. I know it's different for those who have seen it when they were little kids. Heck, for many it even was their first Star Wars film.

I was 18 and it felt 100% Star Wars to me and everyone else I knew. And definitely no more "childish" than the first movie.

[King Mark 3,631]

I think that moment of conflict when Vader has to choose between Luke and the Emperor is the greatest moment in the trilogy

Even in my teenage years I thought that scene was a bit weird.

All the way through the duel Vader is the one hacking into his son, but suddenly when the Emperor tries to kill him Vader has a change of heart?

Well to me it was clear he didn't really want to kill Luke

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well, because you could see Vader slowly change his mind earlier in the film

I never actually saw that. I don't believe that happens at all.

Vader even threatens to subvert Luke's sister instead of him.

[King Mark 3,631]

He did ask Luke to join him and kill the Emperor in TESB

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I was 18 and it felt 100% Star Wars to me and everyone else I knew. And definitely no more "childish" than the first movie.

I'm sorry mate, but the cutesy teddy bears, and even some of the creatures from Jabba's palace make it a lot more child-friendly then the more sinister looking back ground creatures in Mos Eisley, or those Jawa's.

And I actually like ROTJ.

[Ricard 2,245]

I'm sorry mate, but the cutesy teddy bears, and even some of the creatures from Jabba's palace make it a lot more child-friendly then the more sinister looking back ground creatures in Mos Eisley, or those Jawa's.

To you.

And never feel sorry for not sharing an opinion

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He did ask Luke to join him and kill the Emperor in TESB

Something he completely forgot about in ROTJ. I actually wondered about that.

In TESB he wants to reploace the Emperor, in ROTJ the very thought of that is dismissed by Vader....sloppy writing.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well it's clear it wasn't a masterpiece like TESB but I still enjoyed most of it as a Star Wars film

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm sorry mate, but the cutesy teddy bears, and even some of the creatures from Jabba's palace make it a lot more child-friendly then the more sinister looking back ground creatures in Mos Eisley, or those Jawa's.

To you.

And never feel sorry for not sharing an opinion

On politics and religion?

[Quintus 5,399]

I dunno, I don't make that much of a distinction between Yoda's puppet and Jedi's sniggering rat alien.

[A24 4,345]

I think that moment of conflict when Vader has to choose between Luke and the Emperor is the greatest moment in the trilogy

Even in my teenage years I thought that scene was a bit weird.

All the way through the duel Vader is the one hacking into his son, but suddenly when the Emperor tries to kill him Vader has a change of heart?

It didnt work in the 90's for me, and it still doesnt work.

I was with that disappointed too. The meanest, biggest badass villain in the universe suddenly became soft on us.

But before he did that, the confrontation, Luke's anger management test, was very well written and executed. The drama and tension dripped off the screen.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well what I think is that it took being beaten by his son in the duel (who let him live) and then seeing the Emperor torture Luke with the lightning to change his mind

[A24 4,345]

I also don't like how it was presented (how the face looked like without the mask). You just don't take off Darth Vader's mask. It's like killing the character. Darth Vader's real appearance should remained an enigma, just like in the superior first two movies.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But before he did that, the confrontation, Luke's anger management test, was very well written and executed. The drama and tension dripped off the screen.

John Williams epic, yet strangely elusive cue for that scene, really helped.

[A24 4,345]

That's the cue with the low choir voices, right?

Oh, yes, I did not like the Emperor's lightning bolts either. Sure, now I gotten used to it, but at first, I thought it was cheap.

[King Mark 3,631]

It's one of the best cues JW ever wrote (The Final Duel), how can you only vaguely remember it?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That's the cue with the low choir voices, right?

It's actually a brilliant way of scoring this scene. The choir and strings give it an epic feel, yet Williams keeps it restraint. Alsao love how there is a melody there, but it's not the usual hummable Star Wars melody. It's actually quite hard to recall, even after hearing it so many times.

That short cue blows any of the so-called tragic elegies from Revenge Of The Sith out of the water...completely.

[Quintus 5,399]

Alex would have preferred this draft instead.

We probably all would have.

[A24 4,345]

Believe it or not, I can recall the cue without checking the CD. Then again, I have a very good musical memory.

[crocodile 8,017]

It's interesting that in the early drafts of Return of the Jedi ghosts of Yoda and Obi-Wan were both involved in final confrontation and look gets his dad back at the end.

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

The very best in the Williams catalogue tend to leave their indelible mark. Hence why we are here.

[A24 4,345]

Those drawings are pretty good, I must say.

[King Mark 3,631]

It's actually quite hard to recall, even after hearing it so many times.

I always wonder why that is. I think it's because the orchestral part and choir part are out of synch

[Quintus 5,399]

It's easy to recall. That low register drone even has a melody of sorts.

[King Mark 3,631]

I don;t think even Williams could re-record it properly

[Quintus 5,399]

No chance.

[King Mark 3,631]

It a similar situation to when Short Rounds theme and Indy's theme are playing togheter in the TOD end credits.There's also a modulation to which theme is more prominent

[Bilbo 3,709]

Alex would have preferred this draft instead.

We probably all would have.

I've read that in both script and comic book form and it's good and interesting but it would never have worked onscreen.

In fact it probably has more in common with the Prequels than the OT so I'd be very surprised if people preferred it.

Also, it's a draft for the first film and not Return of the Jedi anyway.

[King Mark 3,631]

With the Volcano scene I presume

[Jay 37,370]

EXCLUSIVE: First Pixel From New ‘Star Wars’ Leaked

[Faleel 5,358]

Satire?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,370]

Daniel Craig added to cast

http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/17/6329079/james-bond-star-daniel-craig-in-star-wars-episode-vii

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,715]

His name is Darth, Darth Bond.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

probably he will voice a CGI or puppet character?

[Quintus 5,399]

Nice casting. Villains as we all know need that good old reliable English sophistication.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Wait, so we're just going on a report from the Sun?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

The man who plays James Bond was spotted at Pinewood Studios... Obviously he's in Star Wars!

[Jay 37,370]

Even if he filmed something, it might not make the final cut.

[King Mark 3,631]

20 years from now people will be talking about the mystical deleted scenes with Daniel Craig

[Quintus 5,399]

And the unreleased cues which accompanied them.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

Ninja'd!

[Wojo 2,453]

He did ask Luke to join him and kill the Emperor in TESB

Something he completely forgot about in ROTJ. I actually wondered about that.

In TESB he wants to replace the Emperor, in ROTJ the very thought of that is dismissed by Vader....sloppy writing.

That is certainly one interpretation of Vader in ROTJ. Another is that when Vader is not with the Emperor, he is free to act on his own ambitions. The Emperor's hold on him is lessened at a distance. Vader wants his son, another blood Skywalker, to join with him and overthrow the Emperor, because Vader is not powerful enough to defeat his master alone.

But once Vader is reunited with the Emperor in ROTJ, he must behave. He knows if he shows any signs of disobedience toward his master, he will be punished. Vader's submission is shown to be absolute when he willingly goes to Endor to retrieve his son so that he may be brought before the Emperor for testing. This is the way of the Sith: he has brought his potential replacement before his master to determine who is more worthy to remain apprentice. In hindsight, he drove his car to the airport to get his job replacement. Granted, Vader does defy orders when he leaves the command ship to personally tell the Emperor of Luke's presence on Endor, but the Emperor's control was too great to allow Vader to go directly to Luke to convert him.

The Emperor may even know of Vader's past deception when he openly taunts Luke to join him and take his father's place at his side -- the Emperor does if you read the EU stories with Mara Jade, which predate the prequels, but I don't need to discuss them -- while Vader bides his time. Luke rebels and while Vader tries to find him, Luke's thoughts betray his twin sister. Luke is interchangeable with the other Skywalker, who would more receptive of Sith training as she had not yet tapped into her Force powers. Luke is set off and he reveals himself, quickly subduing Vader while John Williams plays some of the most memorable music in the entire saga. Vader has failed the Emperor's test. He hand-delivered his replacement, who has shown himself to be superior to Vader, and now Vader can be replaced.

Except Luke goes off-script. He throws away his saber and doesn't want to participate. He's still a Jedi. So the Emperor decides to kill him. Watching his son get devastated with chain lightning sets thoughts in Vader's head into motion. He has been kept in check by his own fear of his master's chain lightning; robotic limbs don't allow Vader a defense or counter against such electrical power. Vader knows the Emperor will now kill Luke out of spite, and he also knows the Emperor will be displeased to take back the apprentice who lost in open combat to his would-be replacement, an apprentice who already defied his master once but failed. Vader's opportunity is now and he acts, overcoming his fear of lightning in order to kill the Emperor (or at least, this physical body).

Except somewhere in there, we're supposed to accept it all as simply coming back to the light side of the Force. Do we see hints of that when Vader hangs on Luke's parting words of "then my father is truly dead" as he clutches the new lightsaber? Perhaps.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well, that was interesting to read

It is interesting how we can still dissect minor plot points with a movie such as Return of the Jedi dismissed for "sloppy writing"

Blockbusters now don't even make sense from scene to scene or movie to movie (like X-Men Days of Future Past or the new Star Trek movies ), yet we fully accept them for entertainment value