Reddit AMA with Shawn Murphy and Williams mastering engineers

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Shit, this only just happened! An AMA with Murphy and two other mastering engineers for the prequels and OT. Did anyone know about this?? Could've asked about the state of the OT and PT masters and unreleased music (and future releases)!

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/3w97d3/were_pat_sullivan_dann_michael_thompson_and_shawn/

I had a quick skim and saw such questions as, "would you rather fight 100 mouse sized wookies or one wookie sized mouse droid?"

[Lewya 360]

Missed this. Going through it right now... I am also in the middle of a massive video searching for bits.

Shawn Murphy: "Episode 7 is closer to Episodes 4, 5 and 6 in sonic quality. And the musicians always play very well for John."

"Episode 7 is going to be a lot more like 4, 5, and 6, but interestingly 4 was the only one of the first six that was recorded not at Abbey Road, but was recorded at Anvil Denham, a smaller stage, and if you listen carefully, you can tell. You can tell that episode 4 has a different sonic character to 5 and 6 which Eric Tomlinson also recorded, and also 1, 2, and 3 which I recorded.

So you know, same orchestra, different stage, different techniques. I think 7 is going to be a little bit more like 4 than any of the others. It was recorded in Los Angeles, but sonically it's going to be closer to 4 too."

Which movie's score would you say is your favorite out of the six and why?

I can't name a favorite because they all have elements in them that are fun, and good, and great music. I didn't work on 4, 5, and 6. Eric Tomlinson who just passed away two weeks ago sadly, worked on 4, 5, and 6 and did a fantastic job. So there's elements in all 6 of them that I really enjoy. And they're all great pictures and great recordings. Dramatically there's discussion, but I think musically they're all very interesting.

Hey, thanks for taking time so do this. My question for Shawn is, of the three Star Wars films you mixed, which one did you find the most interesting, the most fun, and the most difficult?

They're all similar actually, of 1, 2 and 3. Establishing a sound in 1 was a big challenge. The complexity of the score in 3 was probably a little bit higher, so the element of mixing live mixes in number 3 may be a little bit more challenging. But, ultimately, they were all pretty similar. They were all done in London, they were all done with the LSO, they were all done at Abbey Road, they were all done with a similar orchestral set up--an orchestra of about 105-108 players. I don't know if there's anything that I can single out in saying that it's the most or more than the others because they're all unique scores.

We did do a little bit different approach to the recording and mixing of each of those in terms of the equipment that was available. The one thing that I can say is that the first two were done with analog recorders and the third was done with a Pro-Tools at 192K because we could not obtain enough analog tape to record the third one completely. That was the interesting anecdote of Star Wars 3, that by 2005, there was not a universal availability of analog tape that we could actually buy enough reels of any one kind of tape. We were looking from Ampex 456 and we needed about 150 reels and we couldn't get them.

What was it like to work with John Williams?

Well, I've been working with him for almost 30 years, so he's an enormously talented composer. Probably the greatest film score composer of our generation. His flexibility and musical genius is well known by all. He's a gentleman, he's a pro, he's easy to work with, and he expects everything to be done properly, as he should.

Everyone who works with him is a pro and excellent at what they do, so, how can it be bad? It's a great experience. It's always fun to work with John.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

He claims TFA will have a drier sound.

[mrbellamy 6,291]

Comment from discussion We’re Pat Sullivan, Dann Michael Thompson, and Shawn Murphy, and we were the mastering engineers for the upcoming Star Wars: The Ultimate Vinyl Collection Limited Edition 11-LP Box Set. Ask Us Anything!.

That's Murphy, by the way.

[Jay 37,373]

Cool embed

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Wish we knew what state the original tape masters of the OT were in. Didn't parts of the ESB master basically disintegrate for the special editions?

Did anyone ask how they "restored" the old masters? Were they run through some garbage audio enhancement filter?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I would have asked:

Shawn, why is it that beginning in 2001, you ruined every John Williams score you recorded?

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"Shawn. A.I. What the fuck?

Also, love your work! xoxo"

[Balahkay 627]

Wish we knew what state the original tape masters of the OT were in. Didn't parts of the ESB master basically disintegrate for the special editions?

Did anyone ask how they "restored" the old masters? Were they run through some garbage audio enhancement filter?

I thought someone (was it Doug?) reported a few years ago that the original masters of SW are in good shape and have been digitally preserved. Who knows about ESB and ROTJ at this point. There was a rumor that higher quality masters for ROTJ were discovered, but that was many years ago.

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There are definitely higher quality masters of ROTJ somewhere because they were used on the ROTS bonus DVD.

They actually sound like a modern score recording, rather than a casette tape recording from inside a public bathroom run through a noise reduction filter 17 times.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It sounded definitive on the original album, but got worse with each subsequent release.

[Balahkay 627]

There are definitely higher quality masters of ROTJ somewhere because they were used on the ROTS bonus DVD.

They actually sound like a modern score recording, rather than a casette tape recording from inside a public bathroom run through a noise reduction filter 17 times.

I thought so, too. However, this analysis makes it seem like the SE masters were used with some corrections.

[mrbellamy 6,291]

There are definitely higher quality masters of ROTJ somewhere because they were used on the ROTS bonus DVD.

They actually sound like a modern score recording, rather than a casette tape recording from inside a public bathroom run through a noise reduction filter 17 times.

You mean they weren't actually recorded like that?? I suppose next you're going to tell me that my old VHS tapes didn't look that way in theaters.

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Well, I hate to break it to you...

[mrbellamy 6,291]

[A24 4,345]

However, this analysis makes it seem like the SE masters were used with some corrections.

Thanks!

[Amer 2,117]

So its confirmed that they have gone back to the original album masters and remastered them at higher resolution for the Vinyl issues for Episodes 4,5 and 6 (and possibly for their cd re-issues ?) Also interesting to note is that the Prequels album has been re-mastered for Vinyl. Its also good to know there exists possibilities to redo the Prequel expansions but Shawn Murphy simply alludes this to the Sony people for THAT decision. So, Im hoping to hear great sound quality of the original John Neal mixes from the LP sets.

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Why oh why couldn't someone ask when Sony's rights deal expires!

[Amer 2,117]

Somebody I know in the sound mixing field actually asked to be involved in rectifying the horrible remixes on the 1997 editions. But was told that he was too late to address the issues as these had already gone into production. But now there appears to be some rumblings about the Disney people eventually getting involved and inheriting the music portfolio when the Sony deal expires. So who knows? Keep your fingers crossed and but DON'T hold your breadth.

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Interesting info, thanks azahid.

Let's hope Disney come to their senses here. I'm sure a nudge in the right direction from JW himself (possibly instigated by a certain expanded soundtrack producer) would see them happen in no time at all. Let's just hope the damn Sony deal expires in 2017.

[Incanus 5,715]

Somebody I know in the sound mixing field actually asked to be involved in rectifying the horrible remixes on the 1997 editions. But was told that he was too late to address the issues as these had already gone into production. But now there appears to be some rumblings about the Disney people eventually getting involved and inheriting the music portfolio when the Sony deal expires. So who knows? Keep your fingers crossed and but DON'T hold your breadth.

Fingers crossed!

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Star Wars is probably one of the top 3 selling soundtracks of all time. I'd be gobsmacked if Disney aren't licking their lips with anticipation in acquiring the entire saga's musical portfolio.

Especially when TFA is pre-ordering like hotcakes. It will easily be the best selling soundtrack of 2015.

[Loert 2,515]

Wait, so was ESB recorded at Anvil or not?

[Scarpia 132]

Wait, so was ESB recorded at Anvil or not?

Yes, it was recorded there.

[Jay 37,373]

There's no reason to think Sony's contract expires in 2017, since it was RCA who put out those 1997 sets originally. Their contract likely expires in 2019, 20 years after they put out the TPM OST in 1999.

[Bilbo 3,709]

I have a feeling I read it was 2019 same as the fox distribution deal but I don't know where I read it.

[Barnald 365]

I'm disappointed no one asked if the rumours of a naked wrestling match between Williams and Giacchino to decide who scored TFA (while Abrams watched on) were true or not.

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And what flavour of jelly was involved?

[Barnald 365]

Flavour is always pivotal

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I'm disappointed no one asked which kind of pizza does JW prefers.

[Barnald 365]

Or indeed what type of jelly he likes on his pizza

[Incanus 5,715]

Ah Johnny's old school recording methods:

[–]m50x3AMA!

How different are your mixes compared to the actual orchestra performance when you work with John Williams?

Well, with John Williams we don't layer. Everybody records at one time, and John's orchestrations are such that our best shot is to get a live representation of what he's written. Because of that, we're typically doing live mixes or close to live mixes and we're not adorning them with anything other than a little bit of reverb.

His compensation, his writing is complete. He doesn't use orchestrators generally. He balances it on stage the way he wants it to sound, and he will check with me in terms of playback. If it's what he wants, then it's what he wants and that's what we stick with.

We do not use samples, we do not use multiple takes other than for editorial purposes and performance, but we don't layer, and we rarely overdub. The only time I can tell you that we did much in the way of overdubbing was a heavily percussive section in A Lost World or Star Wars Episodes 1 or 2 where we had a lot of percussion and we did that separately.

How do you approach reverb for dense orchestral sections?

We use multiple reverbs typically. We use a short dense reverb to sort of fill the spaces between the instruments, and we use a longer reverb to create a tail. We use it judiciously for film and music because we don't want the reverb to overcome the direct sound in terms of competition with sound effects and dialogue on the screen. We want the picture to represent the music on the screen accurately.

So multiple reverbs typically, not too much, for classical recording or sound track recording we typically add a little bit more reverb for the CD and typically a little bit more as well, because we want to make sure there is a good clarity and a good accuracy in music representation verses sound effects and dialogue on the screen.

[JohnnyD 1,223]

Cool interview and information. It's fascinating to have information on how the recording of the Maestro's music is done.

[Jilal 569]

Hmm, no mention of the percussion section for Episode III being recorded separately.

[Incanus 5,715]

Hmm, no mention of the percussion section for Episode III being recorded separately.

An oversight I am sure.

[Jay 37,373]

I think when he typed Episode I and II, he meant Episode I and III.

 

Or would that Yoda/Dooku percussion have been recorded separately?

[Jilal 569]

He didn't type I and II - he typed 1 and 2, so confusion is less likely here. Also, I doubt he typed it all himself, considering he has only one arm to work with.

It was done separately for III, however, obviously.

[Romão 2,274]

I'm sure sections of Chase Through Coruscant were recorded separately

[Jay 37,373]

Maybe only episode 2 and 3 had separate percussion recordings

[Jilal 569]

Huh?

[Jay 37,373]

Which cues in Episode 1 would need percussion overdubs?

[Romão 2,274]

1 and 2 were much more percussion-heavy, were they not?

[Jilal 569]

We have versions of Escape from Naboo and The Tide Turns with sections accompanied by a field drum ensemble where the film versions do not have that same accompaniment. The former otherwise fully correspond to the film versions.

Anyway, I think we can assume they did overdubs for all three prequels.

[Jay 37,373]

OK, all three then, and he just mis-remembered!

[Incanus 5,715]

We have versions of Escape from Naboo and The Tide Turns with sections accompanied by a field drum ensemble where the film versions do not have that same accompaniment. The former otherwise fully correspond to the film versions.

Anyway, I think we can assume they did overdubs for all three prequels.

Episode 3 had certainly percussion overdubs done for many sequences, especially to beef up the final duel and some preceding scenes.

I also remember a 1999 on Episode 1 where the percussionist is telling how Williams had just handed him a list of drums, some even a bit vague description-wise, and just told to get them. There was quite a hefty fee for renting many of those.

From Classic CD August 1999:

Working with John Williams - let's hear it from the musicians

Neil Percy (percussionist)

Before the sessions John provided me with a huge list of what he wanted. It included "primitive drums, heavy drums, low drums, war drums and sinister drums". I was immensely privileged that John had left it to me to come up with drums to fit these adjectives. The actual hire bill for all the extra drums we needed for the fortnight was £6000.

As the sessions progressed it seemed that John got more and more experimental, at least in terms of percussion. It made me smile when he said one day: "Yeah, Neil, I want something which sounds like balalaikas and weird guitars". So I ended up playing a Cretan Lyra (which looks like a stringed guitar that's bowed like a balalaika).

Not that it proves anything in terms of percussion overdubs.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Wait, so they remastered the prequel albums as well? It'd be nice if TPM sounded less reverby and more like the Ultimate Edition, but with superior dynamic range, and if Attack of the Clones didn't sound so flat.

[Jilal 569]

Fascinating stuff, Incánus!

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Would be good to clarify if it was Sony themselves who decided to use the film stems for TPM UE, rather than the actual sessions. The insinuation from Murphy seems to be that it would be a lot of work to do it properly.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Not for this man!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

?