The Music Of The Lord Of The Rings Films - Doug Adams' Book & Rarities Archive

[Marian Schedenig 8,205]

By the way, how much are we still missing from these scores?

About 20 hours of recording session footage, wasn't it something like that? I'm sure most of it is extremely irrelevant.

[Incanus 5,715]

By the way, how much are we still missing from these scores?

About 20 hours of recording session footage, wasn't it something like that? I'm sure most of it is extremely irrelevant.

Do you mean significant music which is missing from the CRs (and all the other sources we have) and the recording sessions or actual video footage from the sessions? I think small sections of such video material would be interesting as we have seen on the EE DVDs but I am sure most of that is irrelevant unless you absolutely want to immerse yourself to the daily toil of film score recording.

[Faleel 5,357]

were missing film versions of certain cues namely Ugluk's Warriors (Film/Instrumental) and Edoras (W/O fiddle)

[Marian Schedenig 8,205]

Do you mean significant music which is missing from the CRs (and all the other sources we have) and the recording sessions or actual video footage from the sessions? I think small sections of such video material would be interesting as we have seen on the EE DVDs but I am sure most of that is irrelevant unless you absolutely want to immerse yourself to the daily toil of film score recording.

Audio only, and I was only talking about what I vaguely remember reading once about the amount of unused recorded material that probably mostly qualifies as alternate takes at best. I don't have any insider info whatsoever, so basically I'm just babbling.

[Incanus 5,715]

Do you mean significant music which is missing from the CRs (and all the other sources we have) and the recording sessions or actual video footage from the sessions? I think small sections of such video material would be interesting as we have seen on the EE DVDs but I am sure most of that is irrelevant unless you absolutely want to immerse yourself to the daily toil of film score recording.

Audio only, and I was only talking about what I vaguely remember reading once about the amount of unused recorded material that probably mostly qualifies as alternate takes at best. I don't have any insider info whatsoever, so basically I'm just babbling.

There were thousands of takes and hours and hours of recorded material from the 3 scores but that does not mean that all those takes deserve to be heard. Shore and his team had to make artistic decisions about the CRs and they decided to include the EE versions of the scores and the sets include film versions of most of the films' cues with few exceptions where the composer's preference or original intention took precedence. On top of that we have the OSTs which contain both TE versions of some cues and also alternate takes of many pieces. Then we have the extra material available on the DVDs, like fan credits and the DVD that came with the RotK Limited OST and now finally the Rarities which contain the pieces that most significantly illuminate the film scoring process and the changes plus some TE versions of cues and even mockups. All this produced with utmost care. Some TE pieces were left off this selection but that was an artistic decision but by no means were we robbed or swindled here. I guess we film music fans sometimes can't see the forest for the trees in our enthusiasm and dedication to our favourite music and focus mostly on the few missing seconds instead of the hours of music that is produced and presented expertly.

And there seems to be an automatic expectation that there has to be hours and hours of alternate material that is interesting when there is so much recorded material. Most probably there isn't and even if there was, this is the music the composer has chosen to present to us and this is what we have to live with.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I do not want everything, i only meant Theatrical and Extended edition final mixes.

Not ALL takes...

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I guess a film music fan's glass is never half full.

By the way, how much are we still missing from these scores?

There are no full cues that I need.

Tidbits in full sound quality, but I only have one small DVD rip, which to be fair is just a tracking/mixing issue.

[Jay 37,369]

I'd like to have:

• Theatrical Edition of Prologue (though the part that's different from the EE/CR can be found in an EE menu somewhere)
• Theatrical Edition of "Frodo sitting under the tree" scene
• EE version of "Frodo sitting under the tree" scene without Ian McKellen singing over it
• True version of "Journey To Bag End" without the microedits
• "Bilbo leaves for Rivendell" scene without Ian Holm singing over it
• Theatrical version of "The Walls Of Moria" and "The Doors Of Durin"
• Theatrical version of "Lothlorien", "The Realm Of Galahadrim", and "Fallen Into Shadow" without OST microedits
• Theatrical ending of "Horn Of Gondor"
• Alternate "The Road Goes Ever On..." as heard in the EE fan credits

And that's just from FOTR

[Henry B 50]

I've uploaded the CD info to Gracenote if anyone needs it to rip their CD. I may have missed some individual artist credits like Renee Fleming.

And yes, the book provides context as to why each piece was chosen for the Rarities Archive. It doesn't "excuse," per se, the music that simply was not included and that people want to hear, but let me stress that I'm not complaining. It's a wonderful looking book, and as a musician I can't wait to study it. We got most of the unreleased music for a reasonable price, and it would be pretty shameful to ask for even more at this point. I'll jump on the editing bandwagon when it comes up. It even seems like Doug Adams carefully selected the contents with this in mind; "Use Well the Days" might be missing because you can find it on the RotK soundtrack DVD, the alternate "Breaking of the Fellowship" can be cleanly ripped from the EE DVD (and probably upcoming Blu-ray), etc.

[gkgyver 1,645]

People tend to forget that Howard Shore looks at the extended cuts as the true versions of these films, so it is therefor only logical that not many theatrical version were included, only when it represents quite different material per se. Like the theatrical version of the Shieldmaiden Of Rohan, which includes Realm Of Gondor in Ascension, a very different take and a very different thematic approach.

I wouldn't want a lengthy cue included, merely because the ending is a bit altered.

If Howard Shore wanted to include Bilbo leaving Bag End without vocals, he had done so when the Complete Recordings to FOTR was released.

A version without the song is not really an alternate, and including such a thing on the rarities would have, understandably, caused a bit of dismay.

The score was meant to underpaint Gandalf's singing, and not to score over it, so naturally that is included as well.

And who decides what the "true" version of "Journey To Bag End" is?

I'm not sure people can differentiate between two things: what the composer envisions and what they "want to hear".

I would too be more than pleased to have access to a couple hours of recording session material, as small a difference there may be in the cues, but one has to respect what the composer wants us to hear and what he doesn't want to expose. And as far as I know, Mr. Shore is very careful about this.

With LOTR, we are as close to "hearing everything" (in film, OST, CR and rarities) as any film score has ever come.

To discuss them in this context is to discuss a bootleg, and an incomplete product. For a superior experience, I can only recommend buying the book, reading the book, and then listening to the Rarities.

Well, it sounded just great in Vienna without having read the book

[Incanus 5,715]

The European release day came and went and there are no books in sight, not in our local book stores nor on the Amazon's European sites (UK, Germany, France all report temporarily out of stock). Well done. I guess the pre-ordered books were delivered but now they are out.

Our local book store was supposed to order a copy for me but they announced on 28th that oh no, they could not possibly pre-order it. Their database shows that the book will be released on 5th of October and after that it will take 2 to 3 weeks before the book would arrive. I am astounded at their stupidity and lack of customer service.

But I am glad that Doug's book is now out for everyone to enjoy. Do those, who already have it, have any comments on it?

[TownerFan 4,983]

I still have to order it. I'm planning to do it as soon as it's available again on Amazon UK.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

wasnt it going to be released fisrt in the uK?

[Richard Penna 3,694]

There was a book signing somewhere in London last week that I'd vagely thought about going to, but despite some searching, only Amazon seems to be selling it, and they don't have any stock.

This team seems to choose publishers who really suck at distribution.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Maybe they wanted it to be just like the experience of buying scores in actual stores in the UK, which is generally frustrating and fruitless.

[Jay 37,369]

Anywhere that they do a signing there will be plenty of copies to buy. That's what I'm doing: Just waiting to buy it Thursday at the Barnes and Noble event in NYC rather than ordering it from Amazon and waiting for it to come in

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Well they only did one official signing in London (apart from the 'live to projection' at RAH) but it was like a day after returning from holiday so I forgot.

[Incanus 5,715]

Anywhere that they do a signing there will be plenty of copies to buy. That's what I'm doing: Just waiting to buy it Thursday at the Barnes and Noble event in NYC rather than ordering it from Amazon and waiting for it to come in

Yeah it would be nice if Mr. Adams and Mr. Shore would come to Finland for a signing session where books would be available but I guess it won't happen. I tried to order well in advance from the local store but they failed miserably. So the internet retailers are the way to go and now they are out of stock. Ironic that the "release date" was 28th in Europe and there is not a book in any store as far as I know beyond the one where Adams and Shore did the signing session.

[gkgyver 1,645]

There was a book signing somewhere in London last week that I'd vagely thought about going to, but despite some searching, only Amazon seems to be selling it, and they don't have any stock.

This team seems to choose publishers who really suck at distribution.

The signing was four days ago, on Monday.

Considering how fast the book sold at Chappell's, I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't a distribution problem, but that the book had really sold out.

[Jim Ware 526]

Considering how fast the book sold at Chappell's, I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't a distribution problem, but that the book had really sold out.

It seems to be a combination of slightly iffy distribution (the book isn't even listed at Waterstones) and good sales - Doug signed well over two-hundred copies at Chappell and the two concerts combined.

[Demondm810 399]

The theatrical version of "Shieldmaiden of Rohan" is sublime.

[Alan 689]

My copy finally got dispatched today from Amazon UK. I ordered on 1st September but feard I'd missed the first batch when it went to "out of stock".

[Jim Ware 526]

I'm loving the alternate ending(s) to 'Night Camp' in 'Eaves of Fangorn' - VALIMAAAAAAR!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Emyn Muil is most likely the surprising highlight.

By the way, can someone hear/tell me what the harmonies are in Frodo's Song 2 (at the very end of the interview)?

It sounds slightly different from the usual harmony.

To me it sounds like C - G - C - Em - G, then C - F - C - G. Then both parts play again, and then Am - Em - F - C - G (twice), and finally D.

[indy4 155]

If anybody hasn't ordered this yet, you can call the Barnes and Nobles in New York and "almost for sure" get a signed copy (with Adams' and Shore's autographs). The only downside is that it's a bit more expensive - you have to pay for shipping and I think you have to pay the $60 marked price rather than the $40 online price.

I've got an order placed for this, but if I decide to spring for the Elfman set I'll probably cancel the order and get it online and save the 20+ bucks.

[ST-321 4]

Tracksounds.net has a review of the rarities disc with samples of 3 tracks

http://www.tracksounds.com/reviews/music_lord_rings_rarities_archive_howard_shore.htm

and a review of the book:

http://www.tracksounds.com/reviews/books/music_lord_rings_films_howard_shore_doug_adams_book.htm

and a Doug Adams interview:

http://www.tracksounds.com/specialfeatures/Interviews/interview_doug_adams_2010.htm

[fommes 153]

Pre-ordered it from Amazon.de but no sign yet at all.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I'm holding off ordering until Amazon UK shows clear signs that it actually has stock.

[Faleel 5,357]

found somthing interesting today:

[Incanus 5,715]

My order shipped from Amazon.com yesterday.

Funnily enough ordering the book with the fastest shipping from across the Atlantic costs me about the same as ordering from Amazon.UK or other European sites.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Costs me less to order from Amazon US (with ~2 week shipping) than Amazon UK (with 2-3 week estimate).

And the *.com page says Shipping this item to your default address may require an additional 6 to 11 days to process.

Why is it so damn hard to get this book?

[Incanus 5,715]

The book arrived today!

I have only had time to leaf through it but it is simply gorgeous.

[fommes 153]

It has arrived!

Can anyone tell me if that envelope that has the CD in it leaves annoying sticky residue? It seems hard to remove and I'd rather leave it on if that's the case.

[Henry B 50]

I didn't try to remove it, it seemed pretty securely glued on.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I didn't try to remove it, it seemed pretty securely glued on.

It's the rubber knob all over again ...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

doe the new book finally make it clear what parts of FOTR are performed by the NZ orchestra?

[Incanus 5,715]

doe the new book finally make it clear what parts of FOTR are performed by the NZ orchestra?

Not entirely. The last chapter, The Recording sessions mentions the Moria sequence since it was the one scored to be shown in Cannes in 2001. We know of course they recorded that alternate Breaking of the Fellowship as well.

Of course Doug gave the info on NZSO's involvement in the FotR Annotated Score PDF when the FotR CR was released: As is well known, the Symphony performed on one of Fellowship’s most thrilling and dynamic sequences, however they also performed a rendition of the film’s closing music at the same time. This sequence was reedited before the London recording sessions, so after Shore re-scored his music, the LPO was asked to perform the new arrangement. The NZSO’s performance, however, can still be heard under the

Fan Club credits on the Fellowship Extended Edition DVD.

The book also treats these films scores as any normal orchestral composition in terms of analysis and does not mention CD editions or a huge amounts of technical details pertaining to the different versions of the music available. Not many mentions of alternate takes on the albums or differences between original OST or the CRs. And thus the Annotated score and the thematic analysis do not contain track times but only the names of the pieces where the themes can be heard for the first time. The book deals with the music of the Extended editions of the films even though that is not expressed anywhere. There are no In the Making or Unused Concept boxes that were in the Annotated Score PDF. Instead there are a few footnotes on such things where they are really relevant.

This list above is not a list of complaints by any means but a list of how the book differs from the PDF Annotated Scores and the liner notes of the CR sets. I actually think the way Doug Adams has chosen to write on the subject is admirable. He treats this music as he would any other worthy orchestral work as it should be while constantly keeping in mind the medium by tying the analysis to the story.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Geez, I thought this book was going to give us ALL the information.

[Joe Brausam 214]

By the way...does anyone have a ripped recording of the alternate Breaking of the Fellowship..?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Geez, I thought this book was going to give us ALL the information.

from the description (more and more cohesive information than the booklets and annotated scores together) i also thought that.

I think a small appendix explaining at least the differenceds between releases, or how many theatrical versions are or things like that, would have been interesting.

But of course that would expose that everything has not been released, and it does not make sense comercially.

[crocodile 8,017]

Almost afraid to ask: is the book already sold out? I wanted to get it next week.

Karol

[Incanus 5,715]

I would like to remind you all that this book is its own creature, not an extension of the CR liner notes nor a guide to edit your own extremely complete vision of Lord of the Rings scores. The book contains a thorough discussion of these scores as they are in the Extended form and naturally deal with the film along as it is the story the music is telling but the focus is now on the music, composer and his vision, not how the music is treated in the film. At least this is the impression I got from reading the book.

To be fair Doug Adams has already provided us with the CR liner notes and the Annotated Scores that go with them, even though they are in PDF form. There he discusses in a completely valid and quite thorough way about the unused concepts and changes to the music in the making and I am completely fine with that. We have a dual resource to this music that does discuss the music in the most thorough manner possible. As the book does not deal with the CDs as much as pure music itself, the discussion on different versions of the music becomes less important.

And what is truly petty is to think that Mr. Adams would not have discussed the Theatrical edition cues and material some consider "missing" just because it would not make commercial sense. To each his own, some consider CRs to be a comprehensive and satisfying view of this music, some want every take of music ever recorded, but to me it sounds truly contemptuous to claim Mr. Adams or Mr. Shore would not discuss the music because it would somehow expose them as some kind of frauds who hold back some information (or worse yet music) just because it would make them look bad or show that something is missing. The book follows a certain logic, the CR liner notes and Annotated Score another. Together they form a larger picture that looks at these things from two different viewpoints.

I am not by any means a person who settles for less and in the case of LotR we have gotten more than we ever dreamed of. And the other side of the coin is that a film music fan's glass is always half empty. There is a bug on the brain until every version of every cue is safely on CD or on your computer and I wonder if this sometimes stops people from just enjoying and appreciating the music, lost so totally in the making of that "perfect complete version" that they envision will offer them musical nirvana.

[crocodile 8,017]

Quite honestly, I almost always skip the bonus tracks sections in the complete score releases. I listen to them once or twice, but unless this is something like alternate Binary Sunset or Sail Barge Assault from SW scores, I wouldn't care for them too much. That's why the book as you describe it makes sense to me.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,715]

Ah ! What would this thread be like without Incanus ?

Less moralizing and less unequivocally pro Howard Shore and his CR sets.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I would like to remind you all that this book is its own creature, not an extension of the CR liner notes nor a guide to edit your own extremely complete vision of Lord of the Rings scores. The book contains a thorough discussion of these scores as they are in the Extended form and naturally deal with the film along as it is the story the music is telling but the focus is now on the music, composer and his vision, not how the music is treated in the film. At least this is the impression I got from reading the book.

To be fair Doug Adams has already provided us with the CR liner notes and the Annotated Scores that go with them, even though they are in PDF form. There he discusses in a completely valid and quite thorough way about the unused concepts and changes to the music in the making and I am completely fine with that. We have a dual resource to this music that does discuss the music in the most thorough manner possible. As the book does not deal with the CDs as much as pure music itself, the discussion on different versions of the music becomes less important.

And what is truly petty is to think that Mr. Adams would not have discussed the Theatrical edition cues and material some consider "missing" just because it would not make commercial sense. To each his own, some consider CRs to be a comprehensive and satisfying view of this music, some want every take of music ever recorded, but to me it sounds truly contemptuous to claim Mr. Adams or Mr. Shore would not discuss the music because it would somehow expose them as some kind of frauds who hold back some information (or worse yet music) just because it would make them look bad or show that something is missing. The book follows a certain logic, the CR liner notes and Annotated Score another. Together they form a larger picture that looks at these things from two different viewpoints.

I am not by any means a person who settles for less and in the case of LotR we have gotten more than we ever dreamed of. And the other side of the coin is that a film music fan's glass is always half empty. There is a bug on the brain until every version of every cue is safely on CD or on your computer and I wonder if this sometimes stops people from just enjoying and appreciating the music, lost so totally in the making of that "perfect complete version" that they envision will offer them musical nirvana.

You had me at "creature".

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I am not by any means a person who settles for less and in the case of LotR we have gotten more than we ever dreamed of. And the other side of the coin is that a film music fan's glass is always half empty. There is a bug on the brain until every version of every cue is safely on CD or on your computer and I wonder if this sometimes stops people from just enjoying and appreciating the music, lost so totally in the making of that "perfect complete version" that they envision will offer them musical nirvana.

We're all guilty of this. I had a DVD rip of a cue from RotK until very recently because the CR has Shore's original intention, not the film version. Only now that we have the rarities (and therefore everything that will be released) have I made my final playlists for the three scores.

But it varies seriously from person to person, and how important a score is to them. My reaction to the Avatar set was total overload. I ended up making a custom set 100% geared towards the listening experience. Some intended versions, some film versions, some cues excluded. But the point was that I had a choice. If a similar set leaked from LotR, I'd have a lot more fun weeding out the interesting alternates/unused cues.

Not much more to say really... we're a very hard to please bunch.

[Quintus 5,399]

Not me. I'm usually quite happy with the music I've got. Neurotic collectors are a rare breed.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

And what is truly petty is to think that Mr. Adams would not have discussed the Theatrical edition cues and material some consider "missing" just because it would not make commercial sense.

There must be talk about the threatrical versions...some rarities are... But is there mention of the OSTs? You said the book is about the EE music. If that's the case i find the decision strange.

But uh...i think i'm always taken too much seriously...

Lets be sincere, the book POW has changed since inception to finish.

It was going to be a way to get enhaced liner notes and annotated scores together and the latter in printed form. Probably they were not printed because they wanted to do it more comprenhesively on the book... (And i remember that if someone complained about the latter not being in the CRs, everyone said 'just wait for the book'...)

It really makes little sense to not print the track by track analysis (which is what every filmscore fan wants and expects in their scores). The liner notes material (thematic analysis, instruments...) is more suited for the book. So, i assumed that they wanted to make the book worth it for people who owned the CRs with providing the track-by-track in paper - and i think they said they were going to be much better.

There was even talk about a PACK release with the CRs. (a different package not a wrap-up box set.)

So, as a sepparate entity, the book eliminates all reference about tracks and so from the CRs or not? Or it is still a companion piece?

anyways, this is complaining for the sake of complaining, i suppose.

But i hope that if adams makes a star wars book as rumored he talks about all the alternates we know that exist (and have heard), and the story about them...