Superman II / III - 3CD Set from La-La Land Records INCLUDES NEW SOURCE MUSIC FROM SUPERMAN THE MOVIE

[Brando 1,864]

12 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Please do, @Amer. I'd love to hear it.

Is there an iso on the Blu?

I checked, and no. Actually there’s no menu. The movie starts automatically and after the credits roll it takes you to a special features menu. And that’s it. A behind the scenes doc on the Donner cut and deleted scenes I think. Very bare 

13 hours ago, Amer said:

I think somebody did that list before. I’m sure I have it in my archives somewhere. I’ll try digging this out…

Oh, that’d be amazing!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

14 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

...it contained tracks, that weren't on the Superman OST. 

Correct.

 

 

14 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

...there was not one note on it that hadn't been originally already written by John Williams for Superman

"Honeymoon Hotel" was an original Ken Thorne composition.

[Andy 4,138]

Which was an odd OST inclusion because it’s source music, and not really great.  Meanwhile some of the more interesting music such as Zod’s motif in the Fortress climax was left off.  
 

I enjoy Superman II and III, mostly for nostalgia, but they’re still a fun way to revisit Williams Superman material. 

[Jay 37,369]

Back in stock next month

 

https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=150515&forumID=1&archive=0

[Jay 37,369]

BTW, it was a wild coincidence that that in-stock notifcation came in when it did, because I had just taken the shrinkwrap off my copy and listened to it for the first time the day before!

 

I kind of really like the Superman II and Superman III scores.  Now sure, they aren't this big creative scores brimming with amazing new ideas or anything, but that's fine, I don't need every score to be that.

 

I found they take Williams' themes and bring them in fun new directions, something I didn't think Ottman did with Returns for example.  I really like how the Krypton theme gets used in III.

 

The source music on the other hand... none of it is my cuppa tea, especially 3 and 2.  Williams' originals are nice to have, even though I won't listen to them all that much.

[Faleel 5,355]

Fun fact, one of the 2 Source cues is a rip-off of this Average White Band song:

 

 

Not many people know that.

 

Also, I actually believe the take of the ending of Can You Read My Mind, is superior to the final version, feels more intimate somehow.

[Andy 4,138]

I love Ken Thorne’s work for these. 
 

Oddly, as a kid, I got my soundtrack LPs out of the library, and was far more familiar with the Superman II OST than Williams’ original! 
 

But I really love how Thorne expands on the Clark Loses His Nerve motif.  He even has an original brassy 3 note motif for Zod that gets used in the Daily Planet and Fortress sequences. 
 

Superman III could’ve been overkill, but Thorne wisely gives us the delightful Streets of Metropolis for the Main Title.  And then the score comes totally alive when the Balloon Sequence introduces all new original material. It’s super fun, and I agree, better than Ottman’s overbaked effort. 

[Jay 37,369]

16 minutes ago, Andy said:

But I really love how Thorne expands on the Clark Loses His Nerve motif.  

 

Yes!

 

16 minutes ago, Andy said:

He even has an original brassy 3 note motif for Zod that gets used in the Daily Planet and Fortress sequences. 

 

Oh nice! I really need to see all these films to get the context for the music

 

(I saw them all as a kid but have never returned to them as an adult)

 

16 minutes ago, Andy said:

the delightful Streets of Metropolis for the Main Title.

 

So much fun!

[Faleel 5,355]

21 minutes ago, Andy said:

 

He even has an original brassy 3 note motif for Zod that gets used in the Daily Planet and Fortress sequences. 
 

 

Isn't the Zod material just from the original The Dome Opens, The Destruction of Krypton, and Fortress of Solitude?

[Andy 4,138]

So the Zod motif... I don't mean the bongo heavy percussive stuff from the Trial scene of the first film, or the crystal motif Williams wrote.  It's just a 3 note motif used (I think) only twice.

 

 

I mistakenly put it at the Daily Planet invasion, but Zod's motif first appears at the beginning of the White House invasion here:

 

 

 

And then makes another appearance at the film's climax here:

 

 

 

I can't connect this with anything Williams wrote, but would be happy to find out I'm mistaken.

 

By the way, the Alternate version of The Dome Opens will forever be connected to Superman II and III for me, after hearing it used for years in those films, prior to the Blue Box release.

 

[Faleel 5,355]

Another Fun fact: "Suspecting Lois Takes the Plunge" is based on an unrecorded version of "To The Lair" from Superman TM.

 

Not many people know that.

[Andy 4,138]

How cool!

Ken Thorne was in some cases very obvious, but in other cases very clever with what he repurposed and how. 
 

The aforementioned Streets of Metropolis takes a motif from the Prelude and dots it in lively triplets to make a bustling “City Action” theme for Kent and the other pedestrians of Metropolis.  That’s pretty swell!
 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

"Swell"?

[Faleel 5,355]

Yes, Lois.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

You know, there are very few people left in the world, who feel comfortable using that word.

[Andy 4,138]

Gosh. I always thought it sounded kind of natural. 

[Stark 316]

These are good scores and this was a very good release for them. Would recommend.

[jwalk713 40]

On 20/02/2023 at 6:17 PM, Clockwork Angel said:

Another Fun fact: "Suspecting Lois Takes the Plunge" is based on an unrecorded version of "To The Lair" from Superman TM.

 

Not many people know that.

This is fascinating to learn. Can you confirm-- did the RSNO John Debney Recording from '98 utilize this version? Because, in that recording, the music preceding Superman's descent to the street is almost identical to the moment in 'II,' right before Clark uses his heat vision.

[Faleel 5,355]

17 minutes ago, jwalk713 said:

This is fascinating to learn. Can you confirm-- did the RSNO John Debney Recording from '98 utilize this version? Because, in that recording, the music preceding Superman's descent to the street is almost identical to the moment in 'II,' right before Clark uses his heat vision.

I recall the Debney version being closer to the final recorded version, just with different orchestration/mixing.

[igger6 894]

I’m watching Superman II for the first time as a non-preschooler, and I loved Thorne’s “Troika” variation on Luthor’s theme as he rides through the snow in search of the Fortress of Solitude ("Lex and Miss Teschmacher to Fortress" on the Blue Box).

 

But golly, Lois, is this script silly! A toilet flushing in the Fortress?!

[Tallguy 3,398]

On 20/02/2023 at 6:17 PM, Clockwork Angel said:

Another Fun fact: "Suspecting Lois Takes the Plunge" is based on an unrecorded version of "To The Lair" from Superman TM.

 

Not many people know that.

 

Was I meant to hear that in Michael Caine's (Peter Sellers') voice?

 

The only reason I have any of the sequel scores is because of the Blue Box. I've never been able to get into any of them. I'm glad many people do.

 

And I still use the word "swell" entirely because of this film.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

"Swell"?

[Tallguy 3,398]

Golly.

[Faleel 5,355]

3 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

Was I meant to hear that in Michael Caine's (Peter Sellers') voice?

 

 

Yes:

 

  

On 30/11/2022 at 1:20 PM, Disco Stu said:

It'd be fun posting well-known Williams anecdotes/factoids .....  I'd use the Michael Caine catch-phrase "Not many people know that" and maybe with Caine as the avatar to encourage people to read the posts in his voice.

 

[Andy 4,138]

8 hours ago, Tallguy said:

And I still use the word "swell" entirely because of this film.

Same, but also because of my Dad, who was born in ‘36. 
 

I also enjoy using “I beg your pardon?” when I don’t understand what someone is saying, like Supes in his interview scene. 
 

And while we’re on the topic of old fashioned speak, I absolutely love to say, “How do you do?” when I’m being introduced or shaking hands.  People must think I’m bonkers. 

[Tallguy 3,398]

1 minute ago, Andy said:

Same, but also because of my Dad, who was born in ‘36. 
 

I also enjoy using “I beg your pardon?” when I don’t understand what someone is saying, like Supes in his interview scene. 
 

And while we’re on the topic of old fashioned speak, I absolutely love to say, “How do you do?” when I’m being introduced or shaking hands.  People must think I’m bonkers. 

 

Those... All sound pretty normal.

[Andy 4,138]

For us, they are. 

[Faleel 5,355]

How do we do?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

Exsqueeze me? Baking powder?

[HunterTech 994]

These scores are a bit tough for me to judge sometimes, even though I would generally say I like them and think they're decent enough follow ups to the original. Part of the issue is that I never was particularly fond of the sound quality, especially with the somewhat flat yet slightly too wide stereo field they have (which the original album mixes seem to not have, curiously enough).

II in particular can't often escape the feeling of it being a cheaper and haphazardly reorganized re-recording of the first, owing to the lack of much new material being present. However, it does absolute gang busters when paired with the film, and I absolutely adore some of the arrangements here (this bit of the love theme in the main titles is just inspired). Plus, I'd say it has that quality I like in particular scores, where I can easily visualize the images from the movie based on where I am in the listening session. That might simply be because the pre-existing foundation it builds off of is strong, but I think it has worth based on that.

III, meanwhile, is incredibly underrated. The opening track especially is a wonderful piece, given it has to do the tough act of underscoring some outlandish slapstick whilst maintaining something of a straightforward quality. One could say it has an animation music feel to it (a friend would've compared it to Horton Hears a Who by John Powell). I can agree with a few (including Thorne himself IIRC) that some of the villain material (specifically that of Richard Pryor's character) is a bit weak, but I like the general feel of the work so much that it ultimately doesn't bother me. My only real complaint is that the new love theme is very underutilized, since it's a strong enough tune to warrant more usage that the film unfortunately doesn't allow.

This is definitely my favorite cue from III:

 

I'm a bit torn on if I want to buy the II/III LLL set (with IV) and sell my copy of the Blue Box, partially because I never feel inclined to listen to the Ruby Spears cartoon music (even if only due to a lack of discussion on it). Plus, it would be nice to be a completionist with the extra source music that was found for S:TM. However, that FSM set holds a special place for me as being the first real big purchase I made in the film score realm, so I probably couldn't be convinced to part with it. Besides, I think I only heard of IV having any adjustments done on the sound front (which most definitely would be minor anyway), so the only real thing I could be left to discover are the revised liner notes. Wouldn't be a huge loss if I missed out, but the thought is there with the release getting close to selling out now.

(Sidenote: I always found it strange that the OST for III is on streaming, but nothing for II (not even the LLL release like IV). Making it the only Superman score to not have any presence on digital platforms, which is just strange.)

[Jay 37,369]

IV is definitely on streaming! 

 

WB Pictures owns it entirely and released Mike's program on digital platforms themselves

 

[HunterTech 994]

I did say that IV is available on streaming. Putting it right next to II in that sentence probably muddied what I meant.

 

I think I did remember verifying the streaming copy of III's OST matching the obscure Japanese CD release for II/III, so surely they would have both up if that master is in their archive. I wouldn't think anyone on the team would feel it's redundant, since II is probably the only other one people talk about much in terms of the Reeves movies.

[Jay 37,369]

My bad - I read that part of your post incorrectly!  Sorry!

[HunterTech 994]

Well, I suppose it was only inevitable:

 

 

On 22/02/2023 at 7:54 PM, igger6 said:

But golly, Lois, is this script silly! A toilet flushing in the Fortress?!

 

The strange thing is that there does exist an alternate take on the scene, where instead of a flushing SFX, it would've been something more alien, which results in Tessmacher actually screaming in response. I guess it implies that the Fortress defense system took care of her (hence her disappearance for the rest of the movie), but then there's the deleted scene of her breaking Lex out of jail at the end, so I don't know what exactly they were aiming for initially.

[rough cut 1,714]

I think that the score for Superman Returns gets an undeserved amount of criticism, it’s a great score in general and a great Superman score in particular.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

On 21/02/2023 at 2:31 PM, Andy said:

Gosh. I always thought it sounded kind of natural. 

 

Whoopsie daisy!

 

34 minutes ago, rough cut said:

I think that the score for Superman Returns gets an undeserved amount of criticism, it’s a great score in general and a great Superman score in particular.

 

No it's not. The non-JW material is outstandingly second-rate. 

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

It’s fine, but the LLL mastering sucks.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

I guess they figured good mastering is wasted on this score.

[rough cut 1,714]

Whatever. It’s still a top 3 Superman score, one that should’ve catapulted JW’s Superman themes into the modern era.

 

But I’m glad we get little glimpses here and there in the newer movies (starting with Elfman’s Justice League and more recently Lorne Balfe‘s Black Adam). Let’s just hope WB allows for it to become more than just a musical cameo.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,542]

On 23/02/2023 at 3:54 AM, igger6 said:

But golly, Lois, is this script silly! A toilet flushing in the Fortress?!

Did you just go "psst"?

[rough cut 1,714]

[Faleel 5,355]

Axing the crystal/legacy theme in SR was a stupid idea IMHO

[rough cut 1,714]

Yes, sure, but not really a “break it or make it” theme. But yes, it would’ve made sense within the plot of the movie for us soundtrack geeks.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

Which theme is that?

[Faleel 5,355]

5 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Yes, sure, but not really a “break it or make it” theme.

It would give you something familiar in the more quiet/suspense sections to hold on to.

[rough cut 1,714]

9 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Which theme is that?

 

 

[HunterTech 994]

In the midst of ripping my set, I've made a shocking discovery: the last track from II comes from a completely different source than how it appears on the FSM set!

Here's visual comparisons first:

Spoiler

FSM:

 

LLL:


And the two next to each other in Audacity:

 

And the opening of the two tracks themselves (ending around the point they transition to the credits cue as a further display of the quality differences):  

 

Given Matessino had only mentioned making very minor adjustments to IV, this is something that I'm surprised has seemingly not been discussed beforehand. Was there some sort of mistake on the Blue Box that led them to using an inferior copy there, or did they discover something for II in the midst of assembling these sets of releases? I would be very intrigued to know, given the marketing about them reusing what had already been assembled for II and III.

I of course prefer the LLL copy, since I always felt the first two cues opening the final track sounded particularly poor compared to everything else (which after yesterday's listen I've decided was better than I initially gave it credit for in that department, and really more just find III lacking in a few places).

[Amer 2,110]

Looks' like less than 50 copies according to LLL on FSM. But the links on LLL are  already gone so it must mean these are OOP.

 

https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=150899&forumID=1&archive=0

 

Superman the Movie 40th anniversary Edition -- LAST 50 UNITS

 

https://lalalandrecords.com/superman-the-movie-40th-anniv-remastered-limited-edition-3-cd-set/

 

SUPERMAN 2/3 - 3 cd set - LAST 50 UNITS

https://lalalandrecords.com/superman-ii-iii-limited-edition-3-cd-set/

 

Get them before they fly away

MV
 

[blondheim 1,157]

Yeah I saw the posting and wanted to purchase but the links don’t take me to the right pages.

[HunterTech 994]

Better hope the other sites are carrying stock of them then.