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Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion


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1 minute ago, Once said:

I might be the only one who love that shawm source. 😂

 

But I have a weird interest in source music in general. Perhaps it’s because I’m striving to become a film director, but source music is as important as the actual score to me.

 

No, I love it too. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by its omission but, you know, 'forest for the trees' and all that.

 

Considering there was space to include it, I can only assume Williams asked for it to be omitted, so not much we can do about it. To be honest I'm a little surprised by just how much he let through the keeper on this set.

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The whole thing is still surreal to me, that I would even be asked to work on something so large and important!  The whole thing came together extremely quickly (especially for 7 discs / 8 hours of mu

This set is the best album I have ever bought. It’s still unreal to me that all of my favourite music from my childhood is newly remastered and released. I’ve been looking forward to discussing every

Williams wrote that music for the deleted Sir Cadogan scene.  The cue was then tracked into two different spots in the final cut, one of which was artificially slowed down.   The little 10 s

Anyway, that shawm cue for me doesn’t work by itself. So if it’s not mixed into Discussing Black, that’s fine. I like how the two work together in the movie, but alas! We still have this:

 

 

 

 

I’ll probably put this in my playlist as a bonus track.

 

4 minutes ago, crumbs said:

More specifically, I believe he said every score cue IN THE FILM was included, not necessarily every score cue recorded.

 

Yeah I didn’t remember the correct quote, I’m afraid 😬

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The Art of the Score featured it in their POA Pt 1 podcast. I'm very glad that it wasn't mixed in to Discussing Black and while I appreciate others might miss it, I definitely don't think the set suffers from its absence.

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1 minute ago, Once said:

Sorry for ranting!

 

I don't think it's ranting at all. We're on a discussion board :)

 

I'm totally with you with the fascination about how this all happens from writing, recording, OST assembly right through to speciality releases like this. What I wouldn't give for the opportunity to rummage through all the materials that make up a score and study them in depth!

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11 hours ago, Jay said:

 

It's at the start of the Aunt Marge Alternate track, after That's A Lie, just before the Alternate opening to Aunt Marge's Waltz.

 

Was talking about the movie actually.

 

wish I could hear the soundtrack by now.

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1 hour ago, Once said:

So when I mention the shawm source or the Double Trouble demo or the Remembering Mother Alternate

 

Technically we don't know if 3m10 Alt. Remembering Mother Alternate was actually recorded, as nobody has confirmed or denied it yet. Similarly, 7m7 Rev. Whomping Willow Revisited, 4m3+4 New Woods Walk and Birds Flight, Harry and Sirius chat (not sure about this one, I already thought the OST had an alternate section of this) and 6m5AN First Frozen Lake which someone mocked up (and is apparently in the DVD menus somewhere).

 

As always with recording sessions, sheet music isn't a true indication of whether Williams actually recorded it before revising it. Cuaron might have heard some cues with Window to the Past early in the sessions, loved it, then asked Williams to find more places in the score to use it. Williams might have rewritten these cues before recording their first incarnations.

 

Jay kindly confirmed both versions of Train to Hogwarts were recorded and both are included in the set.

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15 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Out of interest, which track has this fun little intro? I'm guessing it's after the flute courtyard source and before the Sir Cadagon cue?

 

 

 

It's not there. Maybe it's somewhere else but right now I don't remember hearing it.

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55 minutes ago, Once said:

Well, that was my point. When I bring up these obscure cues it’s to learn more about them, not to riot if they aren’t included (or even recorded).

 

It's perfectly understandable that we, as JW/film music fans, are very much into these tiny details and obscurities. It's part of the fascination with this peculiar artform. But sometimes there's the risk to miss the forest for the trees and then not being able to distance ourselves from such minutiae and enjoy the musical work from a broader perspective. I'm not intimately into the Harry Potter films, so I won't be able to judge what tiny cues are missing, if there are tracks in a different order or alternates conjoined with film versions etc. I'll just press play and enjoy the huge amount of music as the producers chose to present it. Only afterwards I'll study the music deeper, reading Mike's notes and looking at the scores to see how the pieces evolved through the process. But what matters for me is the music itself, not its production.

 

I think we all became a little bit too spoiled over the years and sometimes too much obsessed for what's missing, or why things are done in a certain way and so on. In this specific case, I strongly believe we couldn't have asked for a better product. Of course choices had to be made, but I totally trust the people who produced this treasured item.

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5 minutes ago, Incanus said:

Ah it might be that this Sir Cadogan intro percussion isn't in the set?

 

I don't recall hearing it but it's possible that I just didn't notice. It's one of those short cues that could be hiding somewhere. It definitely isn't an intro to Sir Cadogan if it is on the set.

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57 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Out of interest, which track has this fun little intro? I'm guessing it's after the flute courtyard source and before the Sir Cadagon cue?

 

 


Isn't it Befriending the Hippogriff?
It's in the LLL samples if I'm not mistaken

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2 hours ago, Once said:

Just because we’re curious about every second of music doesn’t mean we’re not pleased. 😊 I can’t stress this enough; all of my questions are based on curiousity, not displeasure.

 

I’m insanely interested in the scoring process, especially Williams’s. Why did he write alternates for some cues? Were they recorded or discarded early on? And why? In what order did they record the cues? And so on.

 

I’m also really interested in how these special releases come together, and how they are presented to Williams. Add to that my interest in Harry Potter and film productions, and my head is almost bursting with questions.

 

This release is the perfect opportunity to talk about these wonderful scores. So when I mention the shawm source or the Double Trouble demo or the Remembering Mother Alternate, it’s not because I’m disappointed they’re not included, but rather because I’m curious about their history, what information we have about them and if you guys have any thoughts on them. 😊

 

Sorry for ranting!

 

Exactly.

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46 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

 

It's perfectly understandable that we, as JW/film music fans, are very much into these tiny details and obscurities. It's part of the fascination with this peculiar artform. But sometimes there's the risk to miss the forest for the trees and then not being able to distance ourselves from such minutiae and enjoy the musical work from a broader perspective. I'm not intimately into the Harry Potter films, so I won't be able to judge what tiny cues are missing, if there are tracks in a different order or alternates conjoined with film versions etc. I'll just press play and enjoy the huge amount of music as the producers chose to present it. Only afterwards I'll study the music deeper, reading Mike's notes and looking at the scores to see how the pieces evolved through the process. But what matters for me is the music itself, not its production.

 

I think we all became a little bit too spoiled over the years and sometimes too much obsessed for what's missing, or why things are done in a certain way and so on. In this specific case, I strongly believe we couldn't have asked for a better product. Of course choices had to be made, but I totally trust the people who produced this treasured item.

Again, when I bring up these cues it has nothing to do with the box set. It has to do with the production.

 

Every time I try to discuss these obscure pieces of music it ends up being about wether it’s included in this release or not. That’s not what I’m trying to talk about at all.

 

I am in every way deeply satisfied with the released box set, and at the same time I’m curious about the production behind the score itself.

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7 minutes ago, Holko said:

The cue list also has two titles with Cadogan in them.

  • 3m5-5A Bonding with Hippogriff and Sir Cadogan Again (this version is/was unreleased, it's the music in the clip above)
  • 3m13 Sir Cadogan for Dufay Ensemble & Percussion (almost certainly 0:00-0:30 in OST track Hagrid the Professor, scored this deleted scene:)

 

Note the chronology of this deleted scene. It took place after the Fat Lady sees Sirius Black and the castle is locked down. Per the cue list, its chronological placement in the score is as follows:

  • 3m11 The Portrait Scene
  • 3m11A
  • 3mE The Great Hall Ceiling
  • 3m12 Revised The Great Hall Ceiling
  • 3m13 Sir Cadogan (for Dufay Ensemble & Percussion)
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Wonder if 3m5a was scored for an unreleased Cadogan introduction scene or they just decided the knight ghosts would be scored with the same piece. The clumsy idiot is in the background a lot when they're looking for the Fat Lady! In the book he is first seen leading the kids to the Divination classroom, which would be precisely in the place The Courtyard and Sir Cadogan is in the new set, considering The Grim was moved back!

 

 

Maybe they decided to nix the percussion between the writing and recording? Or they just used the wrong cue for the deleted scene?

 

Does the new set even have 2 Sir Cadogan cues? Really, nobody listening paid as much attention?

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1 minute ago, bollemanneke said:

But that's still not entirely right, because the released version does not have any percussion.

 

I didn't know what you meant until I read the cue title! Hah! Yes, that's a very confusing cue title (but that's not unusual for Williams).

 

Maybe Williams recorded the percussion separately for this later cue 3m13 (deleted from the film but included on the OST) and decided to omit the percussion from the OST?

 

The earlier cue 3m5-5A does have the percussion though, yes.

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3 minutes ago, Once said:

Again, when I bring up these cues it has nothing to do with the box set. It has to do with the production.

 

Every time I try to discuss these obscure it ends up being about wether it’s included in this release or not. That’s not what I’m trying to talk about at all.

 

I am in every way deeply satisfied with the released box set, and at the same time I’m curious about the production behind the score itself.

 

Exactly. I’m not going to lose my head over why certain things were included when we have an outstanding set in front of us. Something I never thought would see the light of day officially, and certainly not this soon. 

 

However, that doesn’t mean I’m not curious to hear stories about why something was excluded, and I like to hear everything because I too have a filmmaking fascination and just want to know the process behind some of the decisions or recordings. I’ve mentioned I love music editing. Well, it means I’m fascinated by the music editing as well as the music itself. Which is why I reconstruct film edits for some of my favorite scores. I like to know what they did, how they did it, and why they might of done it so that I can be more educated when making these decisions down the line. Later on this weekend, I’ll be sharing much more about the set and some interesting film edit comparisons for those who are interested. 

 

None of this means that I do not appreciate the hard work of @Jay or MM and La-La Land. There’s two different hats being worn and in play here, my composer / musician hat and my Filmmaker / Music Editor hat. I can appreciate something one way and maybe be a little picky from a different angle, but ultimately I can not believe this set.

 

The sound quality is utterly outstanding, the scores are amazing, and the alternates are beautiful and very cool to hear. I’m still working on my big post with thoughts and my favorite gems. So hopefully none of my minor things I’ve mentioned recently is construed as ruining the set for me. Not at all!

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1 minute ago, TSMefford said:

I’m still working on my big post with thoughts and my favorite gems. So hopefully none of my minor things I’ve mentioned recently is construed as ruining the set for me. Not at all!

 

Heh me too. I keep on trying to write a big post giving my thoughts on the set as a whole but I keep loosing my way and just end up listening again 😂.

 

I think I need longer with the music to put together any sort of meaning thoughts but I will just say a massive thank you to Mike Matessino, @Jay and La-La Land for this release. I've been waiting for this one for a very long time and it has been worth it. The bar was already set ridiculously high with JW releases like AI and JP/TLW - this set has only raised it even higher.

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3 minutes ago, Alan said:

 

Heh me too. I keep on trying to write a big post giving my thoughts on the set as a whole but I keep loosing my way and just end up listening again 😂.

 

I think I need longer with the music to put together any sort of meaning thoughts but I will just say a massive thank you to Mike Matessino, @Jay and La-La Land for this release. I've been waiting for this one for a very long time and it has been worth it. The bar was already set ridiculously high with JW releases like AI and JP/TLW - this set has only raised it even higher.

 

It’s so hard to do for me without writing a novel. LOL 

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1 minute ago, Jay said:

The little 10 second drum and tambourine intro that precedes its first tracked appearance was created by the sound effects team (the same guys who put the croaking frogs over Double Trouble), Williams wasn't involved with it.

That’s mindblowing to me! Thanks for the information, very interesting.

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

Williams wrote that music for the deleted Sir Cadogan scene.  The cue was then tracked into two different spots in the final cut, one of which was artificially slowed down.

 

The little 10 second drum and tambourine intro that precedes its first tracked appearance was created by the sound effects team (the same guys who put the croaking frogs over Double Trouble), Williams wasn't involved with it.

Thank you for the info and clearing that up Jay! :) 

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7 minutes ago, Jay said:

Williams wrote that music for the deleted Sir Cadogan scene.  The cue was then tracked into two different spots in the final cut, one of which was artificially slowed down.

 

The little 10 second drum and tambourine intro that precedes its first tracked appearance was created by the sound effects team (the same guys who put the croaking frogs over Double Trouble), Williams wasn't involved with it.

Sorry, it's still not completely clear to me. What constitutes Lupin's Departure (1:22)? In the film it's 10-20 seconds, was it really that heavily cut down?

 

The slower version has a ton of additional percussion, was that editorially created, too?

 

More importantly, what are the two cues in the cue list, 3m5-5A Bonding with Hippogriff and Sir Cadogan Again and 3m13 Sir Cadogan (for Dufay Ensemble & Percussion), what's the deal with those, was one not recorded?

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11 minutes ago, Jay said:

Williams wrote that music for the deleted Sir Cadogan scene.  The cue was then tracked into two different spots in the final cut, one of which was artificially slowed down.

 

The little 10 second drum and tambourine intro that precedes its first tracked appearance was created by the sound effects team (the same guys who put the croaking frogs over Double Trouble), Williams wasn't involved with it.

 

Wow. That’s very interesting and unexpected. So it’s highly possible they just grabbed some stock percussion and overlayed it. Or did they go deep into the recordings and pull that out of some track? Hmm.

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

The "cue list" reflects the tracking

Then why doesn't it list have Cadogan listed as the missing 7m10? It's just so confusingly random. ANd of course Dufay Ensemble and Percussion.

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