Hlao-roo 389 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 A lot of new threads on Munich popping up. Perhaps the mod can consolidate all of them into a single thread here?Notes on the movie (only for people who care about what critics happen to think):So far, in terms of critical opinion, it looks as though one can locate it somewhere below Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan but above Amistad among recent "serious" efforts from Spielberg. At Metacritic, the film has landed an 85, with four major critics weighing in. Expect that figure to drop markedly once the habitual Spielberg detractors at Salon.com, The Village Voice, and Chicago Reader put up their reviews. By comparison, the TomatoMeter over at Rotten Tomatoes is registering a 67%.The film isn't winning any of the big critics awards (those are going to Brokeback Mountain) but has gotten a few nominations and appears to be a staple among top 10 lists.The film's politics have, as expected, proven to be polarizing -- frequent charges of "moral equivalency" and "distorting reality."Notes on the score:On this mark, everyone's saying the same thing. Muted, subdued, invisible, and so on. Sounds like another score that'll divide Williams fans. I'm looking forward to picking this one up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 797 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 On this mark, everyone's saying the same thing. Muted, subdued, invisible, and so on. Sounds like another score that'll divide Williams fans. I'm looking forward to picking this one up.Basically I remember some reviews of Schindler's List stated the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 On this mark, everyone's saying the same thing. Muted, subdued, invisible, and so on. Sounds like another score that'll divide Williams fans. I'm looking forward to picking this one up.Basically I remember some reviews of Schindler's List stated the same thing.Did they? The Schindler's List score was subdued so they were right. I have high hopes for the Munich score. It might be suspence music but if the movie needs suspence then that's the kind of music Williams has provided. But those early descriptions mention those main thematic ideas that sound very good to me. It seems to me that Williams will be scoring the introspection of the main character and his inner conflict . I am excited about the music and interested to see the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 If the music wasn't muted and subdued, the critics would probably still fault Williams for doing the opposite. It's just the way the world turns. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diskobolus 3 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I saw the film last night. It's a four star movie, but not as good as Schindler's List or Saving Private Ryan. Spielberg's goal of peace is fairly clear throughout and he employs various tricks to show that any killing, whether done by Avner or others, is simply maintaining the energy in the pendulum. Each assassination becomes more and more difficult, both logistically and emotionally, for him. The team watches as each of their jobs is followed by more violence from the other side. To us, this kind of perpetual motion, as Spielberg calls it, is so clear and self-destructive, but the characters barely are able to see that, though some raise the issue as the film progresses. Overall, an outstanding film and the acting ensemble is flawless. I don't think anyone but Spielberg could have made this film. In terms of Williams' score, it's barely noticable, usually as ominous underscore or choral lament but occasionally with one or two themes featuring clarinet. See this film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitch 57 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The fact that the movie hasn't been nominated for a Golden Globe in the Best Picture (Drama) category says a lot. And no Best Picture nod for Memoirs of a Geisha where Spielberg is one of its 3 producers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I saw the film last night. It's a four star movie, but not as good as Schindler's List or Saving Private Ryan. Spielberg's goal of peace is fairly clear throughout and he employs various tricks to show that any killing, whether done by Avner or others, is simply maintaining the energy in the pendulum. Each assassination becomes more and more difficult, both logistically and emotionally, for him. The team watches as each of their jobs is followed by more violence from the other side. To us, this kind of perpetual motion, as Spielberg calls it, is so clear and self-destructive, but the characters barely are able to see that, though some raise the issue as the film progresses. Overall, an outstanding film and the acting ensemble is flawless. I don't think anyone but Spielberg could have made this film. In terms of Williams' score, it's barely noticable, usually as ominous underscore or choral lament but occasionally with one or two themes featuring clarinet. See this film.Sounds promising. Thanks for the review.The fact that the movie hasn't been nominated for a Golden Globe in the Best Picture (Drama) category says a lot. Maybe it was too late for the Globes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 On this mark, everyone's saying the same thing. Muted, subdued, invisible, and so on. Sounds like another score that'll divide Williams fans. I'm looking forward to picking this one up.Basically I remember some reviews of Schindler's List stated the same thing.Invisible? That doesn't sound too promising. A film score can be many things, but it should never be invisible, or else why have music at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIEfighter 0 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The fact that the movie hasn't been nominated for a Golden Globe in the Best Picture (Drama) category says a lot. Maybe it was too late for the Globes.It was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 (reposted from FSM)I'm sick and tired of reviewers calling Williams subdued scores atypical for him. Let's tally his subdued scores of the last 15 years to his "bombastic" ones:Subdued:Born on the 4th of JulyAlwaysStanley and IrisPresumed InnocentSchindler's ListSabrinaSleepersRosewoodSeven Years in TibetAmistadSaving Private RyanStepmomAngela's AshesAICatch Me If You CanThe TerminalMemoirs of a GeishaMunich"Bombastic":Indiana Jones and the Last CrusadeHome AloneHookJFKFar and AwayHome Alone 2Jurassic ParkNixon (Might be considered generally subdued)The Lost WorldThe Phantom MenaceThe PatriotHarry Potter 1Attack of the ClonesHarry Potter 2Minority Report (may be subdued category)Harry Potter 3Revenge of the SithWar of the WorldsThat's 18 "subdued" scores and 18 "bombastic" scores. Why are reviewers constantly surprised when Williams writes a subdued score? Can't get Star Wars out of their heads?If this list proves anything, it proves that neither type of score is "typical" for Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 btw almost all the subdued scores have an oscar nomination... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Here you can see a short featurette on Munich, with footage from the film and interviews with Spielberg, Eric Bana and Kathleen Kennedy. In the second part of the clip, there's some music underscoring that sounds unmistakeably like John Williams (a passionate string adagio) and sounds really beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 That's the music I heard in the trailer I saw on television last week, but it was only the first 30 seconds so it could fit the trailer length. Now that I've heard the whole thing, it does sound like Williams.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The fact that the movie hasn't been nominated for a Golden Globe in the Best Picture (Drama) category says a lot. Maybe it was too late for the Globes.It was...And it was nominated for best director and best screenplay nevertheless? I'm not sure how these things work, but I am surprised Munich was not nominated for best picture, specially after being nominated for two very important categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SturgisPodmore 0 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 The fact that the movie hasn't been nominated for a Golden Globe in the Best Picture (Drama) category says a lot.Indeed, essentially fake movie awards are always a good indicator.~Sturgis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Well,"subdued and muted" might also be "undermixed",like most of Williams scores lately.You just don't "feel" Williams scores in the theatre anymore like in the days of Hook.If the themes are beautiful the c.d. might do the score more justice,like A.I.K.m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 The fact that the movie hasn't been nominated for a Golden Globe in the Best Picture (Drama) category says a lot.Indeed, essentially fake movie awards are always a good indicator.The Golden Globes are less fake than the Academy Awards (which only exists of members patting themselves on the back ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 The adagio in the featurette is very beautiful.As outspoken admirer of 'Angela's Ashes' or even a piece of drama like 'Anakin's Betrayal' i guess this one should at the very least offer some great album arrangements of Williams string writing.Even if the rest is subdued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Mediocre review can be found here. A friend of mine saw it last night with a group and none of them liked it.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 797 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Soloists on the Munich soundtrack:Gloria Cheng-Cochran (Piano)Adam Del Monte (Guitar)John Ellis (Oboe)Stephen Erdody (Cello)Lisbeth Scott (Vocalist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scissorhands 16 Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Beautiful 8O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QMM 4 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 I'm almost done with Vengeance which Munich is based on and I can't see any way of this movie not being amazing, unless Spielberg totally changes it a la Lost World.Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 And the guy who wrote the screenplay is Tony Kushner, who is a popular and well respected playwright, and won just about every award imaginable for "Angels in America" which was also turned into a fantastic HBO production.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diskobolus 3 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Mediocre review can be found here. A friend of mine saw it last night with a group and none of them liked it.Neil Meaning what? They didn't find it enjoyable to watch? It's not meant to be entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Can you be a bit more descriptive about the score?K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Entertainment Weekly has a very positive review up at their website. There's even a small mention about the score:Spielberg shoots Munich without showy virtuosity, yet his camera seems to be everywhere at once, and John Williams' score is like a telltale heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Mediocre review can be found here. A friend of mine saw it last night with a group and none of them liked it.Neil Meaning what? They didn't find it enjoyable to watch? It's not meant to be entertaining.He wouldn't recommend it. He used the term "complete dud" to describe.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 But do you trust his opinion on serious dramatic work?Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpeteer 302 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Maurizio beat me to the EW review. I didn't read all of it, but I was curious to see if JW would be mentioned. It's great to see that his music does have an effect, not "subdued" as most people expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 The movie will be premiered in spain 27 january.At least its not too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 But do you trust his opinion on serious dramatic work?Yes, I sure do.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Mediocre review can be found here. A friend of mine saw it last night with a group and none of them liked it.Neil About that review, I agree with what 'Anonymous' said about it- For a pan, that sure sounded like a good movie to me. Morlock- who's anticipation of this movie is rising daily, and who's expectations of it are changing just as often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 214 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 I saw the commercial this morning with the female vocal solo. Absolutely beautiful...and my want for this album increased by a good 50%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 797 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 I saw the commercial this morning with the female vocal solo. Absolutely beautiful...and my want for this album increased by a good 50%.That piece is NOT from the Munich soundtrack. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 I think I will like it because I agree with its message. Many people do not agree with, or have not pondered the message it conveys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diskobolus 3 Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 I think I will like it because I agree with its message. Many people do not agree with, or have not pondered the message it conveys.The message is one for peace. Violence begets violence, Spielberg is saying with this film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scissorhands 16 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Tracklist already available.Running time: 36'' (shortest since "Always")If you want to listen to some new clips, visit the official site, http://www.munichmovie.com/Awesome stuff, for the moment, including the israeli theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Well,it's wailing woman for sure.I don't hear anything that really grabs my attention yet.I hope it's more than long brooding notes.K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QMM 4 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 stuff sounds great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Tracklist already available.Running time: 36'' (shortest since "Always")If you want to listen to some new clips, visit the official site, http://www.munichmovie.com/Awesome stuff, for the moment, including the israeli theme.Somehow I have a feeling that running time for the CD may be wrong.That would mean each cue averages 2:00 mins each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 And there are probably a couple of concert tracks that time around the 4 minute mark. I does seem hard to believe that the entire 18 track score is just over a half hour. I would probably compare it to the Geisha score in terms of length, and not only because they have the same track count.Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I can't seem to find the clips. A little help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I thnk they meant the background music of the several sections of the oficial website. Some of it sounds very interesting indeed. Wasn't some of it used in trailer? Are you sure it's Williams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 797 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 The adagio-type music is from the short "making of trailer". The female voice was heard very briefly during that trailer too. The other music hasn't been heard before (I think).I really have to hear more of it to be able to ventilate any kind of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMan 0 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I find the string adagio to be extremely beautiful. I hope that it plays a major part in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I will, however, say that the string adagio sounds like typical Williams' string adagio, a la "Arlington", "Anakin's Betrayal", "Ray and Rachel"....etc. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's nothing really new, though the melody is very nice. Can't wait to hear the rest....Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanosdm 0 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Just go to the film's official sitehttp://www.munichmovie.com/Don't forget to click each of the links at the bottom of the page :spiny: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orson 1 Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 I can't wait to see this on Friday. What a great time to be a fan of the cinema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 What a great time to be a fan of the cinema.Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orson 1 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 What a great time to be a fan of the cinema.Really?Indeed I do... what's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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