Hans Zimmer Appreciation Thread

[crocodile 8,017]

Orchestra.

Karol

[Romão 2,274]

That's like playing Slayer with an Ukelele

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Will the conductor be drunk?

[Neimoidian 14]

That's like playing Slayer with an Ukelele

You mean like this?

[Ollie 1,059]

Maybe they can get this guy to conduct:

Oops, see the next post by me.

[Neimoidian 14]

Orchestra will be led by Richard Kaufman if that tells anyone anything.

[Ollie 1,059]

[KK 3,307]

I realize that I may be making a huge mistake, but I think we should have a Zimmer thread here. An official thread for Zimmer on JWFan maybe the signs of the footsteps of doom, but Zimmer is actually a composer that I'm quite fond of. Or at the very least, I'm fond of the old Zimmer. Hey, I'm quite certain many will agree with me when I say you can be both a JW fan and a Zimmer fan. His work in the last 3-4 years (with a few exceptions) have been very disappointing. But I there can be some interesting discussion here about this highly controversial composer.

Let me start by just listing my top 5 favourite Zimmer scores:

1) The Prince of Egypt: A plethora of amazing themes (the God theme is beautiful) and a powerhouse of a score.

2) The Last Samurai: Exciting action, thoughtful themes and beautiful ethnic instrumentation, an intoxicating combination.

3) Beyond Rangoon: His most beautiufl and lyrical score. The gorgeous music here places this score amongst the man's very best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFiBXyNoC2M

4) The Lion King: Some of his most majestic themes have been written here. I love Zimmer for this excellent powerhouse.

5) The Da Vinci Code: I know I'm in the minority with this one, but I've got my reasons. This score always has a touch of nostalgia for me as it is my first Zimmer score. Many years later, this score continues to impress with its dark and yet largely symphonic beauty and power. You just don't see Zimmer write like this anymore (well maybe the more atmospheric parts have caught on, but never does he touch the symphonic heights of this score nowadays....he has his synthesizers and blasted foghorns instead).

I suppose I should let the Zimmer hate begin!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Lol, did not see that. I'm really bad at using this search bar here. Well, I assume Jason will eventually move this post.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Appreciate the advice. But since when did I become the impulsive guy around here?!

Don't be so hasty with your accusations my friend

- KK

[chuck 154]

He reminds me of Chandler.

[Faleel 5,353]

Well, the thing you've got to know is that in the Search function options, at the line "Match", you've got three options available: "Search title and content", "Only search in titles" or "Only search in content".

Using the second option ("Only search in titles") helps a lot. If you had used it, you would have found this thread. But as always, you always do things in hurry, and never cautiously. Next time, pay more attention to the options available!!

[chuck 154]

He forgot to "Bru-Rar-Rum!"

[ShowUStheHOOK 8]

I believe Stephen Schwartz wrote the lyrics, but Zimmer provided the music for them.

I'll have to check the piano book again, but I believe Stephen Schwartz wrote the music and lyrics to the songs and zimmer scored the film.

EDIT

a link from the piano book

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/The-Prince-Of-Egypt/2987628

[KK 3,307]

I believe Stephen Schwartz wrote the lyrics, but Zimmer provided the music for them.

I'll have to check the piano book again, but I believe Stephen Schwartz wrote the music and lyrics to the songs and zimmer scored the film.

EDIT

a link from the piano book

http://www.sheetmusi...f-Egypt/2987628

Stephen Schwartz wrote all the themes and melodies for the songs (along with the lyrics). Hans Zimmer helped arranged the songs, like the epic "Deliver Us". The themes in the actual score are all original to Zimmer.

[Romão 2,274]

Today I listened several times to my favorite Zimmer score: Hannibal

I love the narration. And I adore To Every Captive Soul. It's very Tristan and Isolde-like, but Zimmer can write some great string based cues. Patricide from Gladiator is another such example

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I saw Ice age 4 today, and there is a 'THe simpons' short before it. Like the movie, music was by hans zimmer. There were not any references to the simpsons theme and the music was orchestrally good.

Zimmer should write more like that.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

Probably Jim Doodley.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Interesting interview with Zimmer where he discusses music and technology, instigated by the new iOS app VJAM.

[Jay 37,369]

2013 is turning out to be the most prolific year for Zimmer in a while!

In addition to scoring Man Of Steel, The Lone Ranger, Rush, and Winter's Tale, he also has Mr. Morgan's Last Love coming out.

[KK 3,307]

I wonder how much of that will actually be scored by him...

[Brónach 1,302]

Probably Jim Doodley.

I didn't know this guy. I wonder what he composed in The Da Vinci Code.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I wonder how much of that will actually be scored by him...

I wonder if some CD covers can genuinely claim to be 'composed by Hans Zimmer', as I keep hearing of more and more scores supposedly by him which actually had loads of ghostwriters.

Giving less experienced composers a chance is good, but it crosses a line IMO when he pretends that he wrote it to sell CDs.

[Brónach 1,302]

Apparently he doesn't pretend that, even though he's normally the one credited on the CD and the one everybody gives credit for the whole score.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Must. Resist. Urge.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

As far as I know he does not use ghostwriters. Ghostwriters are never credited. Zimmer has, throughout his career consistently credited his co-composers.

I am not much of a Zimmer fan. but he has always been transparent about his collaborations. Can't fault him there.

[KK 3,307]

Precisely. But I'd like him to take on a solo project.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Has he ever done so?

Zimmer is a pop musician at heart.

[KK 3,307]

Well as solo as he gets. I'd like to hear more scores where he doesn't just compose one or two themes and leaves the rest to others. Scores like "The Da vinci Code" where it was mostly him.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I wonder how much of that will actually be scored by him...

Taking all the material in those score that are genuinely by him would probably amount to one film score of average length.

[Bellosh 3,419]

Re-watching the Pacific mini-series, his main theme to that is just wonderful.

[Brónach 1,302]

Must. Resist. Urge.

Urge of what? You don't hear "score blah blah, composed by Hans Zimmer, this guy and this guy". You hear "score blah blah, composed by Hans Zimmer", and it'll take you being a nerd about it to know there's more to it than that and some research to know who did exaclty what. I'm not critizizing anything, that's what happens.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Resist the general urge to resort to my old Zimmer posting tendencies. It wasn't a direct reply to your post, though it was a part of the whole. I can't believe that after 10 years people still can't figure out how Zimmer works.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Many people still believe a film composer should only ever write the music themselves.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I was astounded when I went looking for music from the end of Despicable Me to find that almost all of the finale was written by Magic Box Music.

So delegating composing tasks to others within isn't enough... he outsources to some other company?

Yes Koray, I understand that many composers get help from someone else, but Zimmer seems to do it on such a regular basis, and I'm not aware of a single score which I know he wrote entirely by himself. Is that too much to ask?

[Brónach 1,302]

The part where I disagree with Koray is when he compared Zimmer scoring a film with a director making a film. I don't think the comparison makes sense.

What I find frustrating is that if I like or dislike something in one of these scores I find it confudsing who's to be credited about it anymore. Is Zimmer who is boring or brilliant here? Is it someone else? What does "arranging" mean?

Anyone got a list of everybody who composed Inception? That one seems to me like one where Zimmer did pretty much everything but who knows.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Lorne Balfe did some of it.

According to this page, eleven composers worked on On Stranger Tides. It's insane.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Why? Zimmer never wanted to score another Pirates after At World's End, I wasn't surprised in the least that he wrote a new theme and let a whole bunch of other people score it.

I still don't understand why it's insane for more than one composer to work on a score. Chaac brought it up so I'll say it again, a director does not do everything on a film, he knows what he wants and has other people help him achieve it. How does this comparison not make sense?

What does arranging mean? Look it up. Someone takes a piece(s) of preexisting music and works with it.

Zimmer credits all the people that work on his scores where he can. He has said in interviews that he has to fight with the studios for those credits. He also gives more credit than what is often deserved. He didn't even score Despicable Me so I don't know why that's being discussed here. He produced the score. Heitor Pereira and Pharrell Williams wrote the music/songs.

[Brónach 1,302]

Why? Zimmer never wanted to score another Pirates after At World's End, I wasn't surprised in the least that he wrote a new theme and let a whole bunch of other people score it.

Yeah I thought the same. The resulting score offers nothing (I remember some version of Up is Down that was cool) but the film itself didn't deserve much.

I still don't understand why it's insane for more than one composer to work on a score. Chaac brought it up so I'll say it again, a director does not do everything on a film, he knows what he wants and has other people help him achieve it. How does this comparison not make sense?

Because filmmaking is normally collective by nature. Music composition isn't. The conditions are different.

A film by x person is understood to have needed more people so it can be done. A score by x person is understood to have been composed by that person. Otherwise, it's a score by x, y and z. Which isn't bad by itself, but the situation is different, so I just want to say that I don't see it as an appropiate argumentation in favour or against it (if there can even be such a thing, I mean, as long as it works... there are several scores made by several people that I like). The scope and characteristics and techniques required for both arts are different. The most evident reason for that is that one can be included inside the other. Normally, a director can't be an expert in several highly complex fields at the same time, they tend to focus their expertise on some of them in particular, but it could be expected of a composer to be able to do his particular field inside filmmaking.

What does arranging mean? Look it up. Someone takes a piece(s) of preexisting music and works with it.

Yeah I figured.

I wonder if there's some thread for great film scores composed by more than one person, just for the curiosity of seeing what other people know/like.

[Delorean90 42]

I still don't understand why it's insane for more than one composer to work on a score. Chaac brought it up so I'll say it again, a director does not do everything on a film, he knows what he wants and has other people help him achieve it. How does this comparison not make sense?

What does arranging mean? Look it up. Someone takes a piece(s) of preexisting music and works with it.

Zimmer credits all the people that work on his scores where he can. He has said in interviews that he has to fight with the studios for those credits. He also gives more credit than what is often deserved. He didn't even score Despicable Me so I don't know why that's being discussed here. He produced the score. Heitor Pereira and Pharrell Williams wrote the music/songs.

The analogy breaks down because that is the common procedure for directors, whereas handing scads of cues off to additional composers is not common procedure for composers. This is also not to say that it doesn't happen (Fred Steiner's work on Star Trek: The Motion Picture, for instance), but I think what's causing the controversy is the extent to which it happens in Zimmer's filmography. I think it's admirable that he does take the extra effort to make sure credit is given where it's due, sure. I also totally get the frustration in figuring out how to evaluate scores that have Zimmer's name on the top.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

So like everything else in the world, it's frowned upon because it breaks from tradition.

It's not frustrating to evaluate his scores, because it's rarely a case of "This cues is by this guy, and this cues is by him and him," etc. His name alone is on the front cover for a reason. Open up the booklet or check a couple websites and you can find most credits for his music.

Black Hawk Down is credited to the BHD band in the booklet. The Jigs of Hans Zimmer & The Jigs on An Everlasting Piece is just his usual team of collaborators.

"The Jablonsky Variations On A Theme By HZ" is as obvious as it gets for a track title. It's not hard to learn this stuff.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I still don't understand why it's insane for more than one composer to work on a score. Chaac brought it up so I'll say it again, a director does not do everything on a film, he knows what he wants and has other people help him achieve it. How does this comparison not make sense?

Because for a director, it's simply physically impossible to do screenplay, principal art, sound design, sound mixing, costume designing, location scouting, set building, storyboards, digital effects at the same time, while directing.

It is however, very bloody possible for the highest paid composer in Hollywood to write 60 minutes of music for an average Fantasy film without half a dozen minion composers - because it's the only task he has!

Someone else conducts the orchestra, other people help with the technical aspects. While that is normal in the industry, it gives Zimmer the possibility to concentrate purely on the music, and even then he has a dozen people do the work for him, while his name is still the only one on the CD cover!

People don't look into booklets to search for ghost writers; interviews are made with Zimmer, and not someone like Geoff Zanelli; people associate Zimmer's name with Pirates 4 and other scores, and not Phoenix', Sponsler's or Bergersen's names. Because Zimmer's name is on the cover, and theirs are not.

If you don't see any fault in that, there is simply no helping you.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

AWE is a great example. The CD contains music from Zimmer, Zanelli, the Magic Box Music guys, and who knows who else.

Why? Zimmer never wanted to score another Pirates after At World's End, I wasn't surprised in the least that he wrote a new theme and let a whole bunch of other people score it.

I still don't understand why it's insane for more than one composer to work on a score. Chaac brought it up so I'll say it again, a director does not do everything on a film, he knows what he wants and has other people help him achieve it. How does this comparison not make sense?

Is that supposed to be an excuse for giving the work to a dozen other composers? Unless they were under serious time constraints (I'm only aware of the first one having that situation), 12 composers is an insane number to have composing for a single project.

I'm aware that contrary to numerous interviews, Zimmer basically didn't want to do another pirates - frankly, if you don't want to do a film, then give it to someone else who does and will make it cohesive.

The crediting issue is more widespread. But... if it takes a visit to the website of an additional composer to find out that they wrote part of the score, then sorry, but you're taking credit for someone else's work, and I think that's not good enough.

(Yes, ZImmer's not the only one who does it, but he does it far more than anyone else)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Because filmmaking is normally collective by nature. Music composition isn't. The conditions are different.

It depends by your definition of music composition.

Composers like Goldsmith, Williams, Herrmann, Rosza, etc etc are clasically trained, true "orchestral" composers.

Traditionally and for hundreds of years is is normal to compose music on your own.

Zimmer is NOT a classically trained composer, he has a pop music back ground.

In pop music, Rock & Roll, Jazz, Disco, R& B etc etc is is far more common to compose as part of a team.

The lead singer of a band if far from always the person who writes all the music and all the lyrics, does the arrangements etc...

Zimmer merely sticks to the method of working that he obtained from his background in pop.

Other composers with a similar background, like Elfman have moved more towards a traditional approach. Zimmer has not. And it has worked very well for him.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Hasn't worked well for the scores he did, though.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Would they have been better if he had composed them on his own?

[gkgyver 1,645]

At least we could evaluate them more easily than a huge mishmash of ideas and approaches.