John Williams' 10 Best Concert Suites post 2000?

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

Concert Suites - A cue to showcase the music away from how it appears in the film. Though sometimes cues that are obviously concert suites do get tracked into the film.

 

I would say use your own judgement. I would generally avoid listing those 10-12 minute End Credits suites as the are basically a rundown of all ideas rather than the presentation of a single idea or a few ideas.

 

Here's what jumps out to me

 

1. Harry's Wondrous World - Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
2. Aunt Marge's Waltz - Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
3. Buckbeak's Flight - Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
4. Hedwig's Theme - Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
5. March of the Resistance - Star Wars: The Force Awakens
6. A Window to the Past - Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
7. Rey's Theme - Star Wars: The Force Awakens
8. Across the Stars - Star Wars: Attack of the Clones
9. Fawkes the Phoenix - Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
10. The Tale of Viktor Navorski - The Terminal

 

Due to the dramatic nature of some of the recent scores, it seems we did not really get many concert suites for some of them. Tintin has an abundance of themes but a concern suite just for Snowy's Theme and the Pirate motif, neither of which are brilliant I think. Even Episode 2 and 3 offer up just one great concert suite while the most recent one has actually 3 (though I did not include the Scherzo). The Harry Potter films stick out as containing gorgeous concert suites. Williams wrote magnificent themes for them and also wrote great concert suites to showcase his ideas. 

 

 

 

 

[Thor 7,508]

To be honest, I have no idea what is a concert suite and what is not, unless it specifically says so in the track titles (like the MEMOIRS OF A GEISHA concert suite). To me, they are all individual tracks that make up part of the album experience.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

I think it can be fairly obvious which cues are concert suites. Film cues are bound by what is happening on the screen, the have to follow the action or mickey mouse and follow the edits or the pace of the scene and thematic statements can be cut off due to the length of the scenes and the need for underscores and what not. Concert suites allow the idea to breathe and develop.

 

And a concert suite is an art in and of itself, I think few composers apart from Williams even bother with them. Its can be a thrilling work of showmanship. Like March Of the Resistance, he states the theme numerous times without restriction of the scene and even pulls of some orchestral gimmicks. 

 

I personally quite enjoy concert suites. If suppose you feel like listening to the main idea/s of a score, the concert suite would be the go to option.

[Thor 7,508]

29 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

I think it can be fairly obvious which cues are concert suites. Film cues are bound by what is happening on the screen, the have to follow the action or mickey mouse and follow the edits or the pace of the scene and thematic statements can be cut off due to the length of the scenes and the need for underscores and what not. Concert suites allow the idea to breathe and develop.

 

 Maybe obvious if you're listening to soundtracks because of the film in some way. I don't. I listen to them as pure concept albums. So I really have problems separating between a 'setpiece track' from a film and a concert suite (not that I really care about the source in the first place). Even these socalled 'concert suites' have a very filmic quality. I mean, a track like "Raisuli Attacks" from Goldsmith's THE WIND AND THE LION is pretty much a self-sufficient "concert suite", but as far as I know it's a film-specific track, whether or not it was rerecorded for album.

 

I'm impressed that so many of you keep tally of all these differences.

[Quintus 5,399]

The Jedi Steps and End Credits. 

 

 

[Score 770]

In no particular order, and referring specifically to the concert arrangements:

 

1. Leia's Theme

2. Luke and Leia

3. Imperial March

4. Harry's Wondrous World

5. Duel of the Fates

6. Theme from Schindler's List

7. "Closing In" from "Catch me if you can"

8. Across the Stars

9. The Chamber of Secrets (4th movement from the suite)

10. Adventures on Earth

 

[SilverTrumpet 638]

6 hours ago, Quintus said:

The Jedi Steps and End Credits. 

 

 

That's not a concert suite.

 

Remember, concert suites are usually not IN the movies, but rather an independent piece that explores a theme from the movie.

 

Star Wars wise think Luke and Leia, Duel of the Fates, Anakin's Theme, Parade of the Ewoks. Those tracks on their respective soundtracks don't appear that way in the movies. The themes might be in there, but not that track or recording itself.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

2 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said:

That's not a concert suite.

 

 

You are wrong, John Williams adapted the movie cue into a longer concert version.

 

 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

6 hours ago, Quintus said:

The Jedi Steps and End Credits. 

 

 

 

Yep. 

 

Also Where Dreams Are Born. 

[SilverTrumpet 638]

5 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

You are wrong, John Williams adapted the movie cue into a longer concert version.

 

 

The one that added all the Resistance stuff?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

5 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said:

The one that added all the Resistance stuff?

 

No, that's the home video end credits. JW had nothing to do with that.

 

For concert performances Williams released a concert version of The Jedi Steps.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Rey's Theme.

[Quintus 5,399]

Argh man, it's friggin' criminal that Williams' soaring rendition of Rey's theme is now jettisoned from the movie in its home release form. The way the trumpets compliment the strings in a way which is downright celebratory... all Star Wars fans ought to be able to enjoy that marvelous musical moment every time they finish another viewing, but no. They fucked it up, and I find it hugely disrespectful to Williams actually. 

[Marcus 390]

(Just to clarify, given that there seems to be some confusion regarding what the term actually means, and what constitutes a "suite":)

 

A "suite" is a collection of several (usually shorter) pieces, historically (pre 19th Century) movements in different dance forms (gavotte, gigue, sarabande etc). Later, it has come to signify any selection of multiple pieces culled from a larger body of score.

 

A film music concert suite is a succession of music from (different parts of) the film score arranged for concert performance.

 

If only one segment of the score (a theme, a set piece etc) is arranged in this fashion, it is a merely a concert arrangement, not a suite.

 

Typically, a suite will consist of several different parts of the score strung together, whereas a concert arrangement often has a narrower focus.

 

"Jedi Steps & Finale" is technically a concert suite, even with a short prologue from the score proper overlapping with the end credits.

 

"Harry's Wondrous World" is a good example of a single movement suite (although it may also function as a Finale to a larger suite; see next paragraph).

 

Other suites may consist of several concert arrangements designed as separate movements that constitute a larger whole. Williams has designed many of these, prominently for the Harry Potter scores, as well as for some of the Star Wars scores.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

2 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

 

 

For concert performances Williams released a concert version of The Jedi Steps.

 

Is there a recording of it?

 

 

1 hour ago, Quintus said:

Argh man, it's friggin' criminal that Williams' soaring rendition of Rey's theme is now jettisoned from the movie in its home release form. The way the trumpets compliment the strings in a way which is downright celebratory... all Star Wars fans ought to be able to enjoy that marvelous musical moment every time they finish another viewing, but no. They fucked it up, and I find it hugely disrespectful to Williams actually. 

What are you talking about? Do you mean the rendition of Rey's theme from the end credits?

 

 

[Loert 2,514]

12 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Is there a recording of it?

 

Not yet. However it is almost identical to the OST version. The only major difference is that the statement of Poe's theme is extended, so that it sounds closer to the statement present in "I Can Fly Anything".

 

(Btw I'm talking about the concert version of "The Jedi Steps and Finale" here. There is also a concert version of "The Jedi Steps" only, which is quite different from the film version. That also hasn't been recorded, although a few MIDI mockups of it have appeared on Youtube.)

[Jay 37,368]

I'd have to think harder before including his 2000-2005 scores, but from his 2008-present output, the concert arrangements I like the most are:

 

Irina's Theme (the new one he wrote for live performances, not the film cue mashup that's on the OST)

Marion's theme (new concert arrangement for live performances, not anything from the 80s)

The Adventure Continues

Rey's Theme

End Credits from TFA

Learning The Call

The Homecoming

The Peterson House And Finale

Getting Out The Vote (live version, not album version)

Elegy

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

I'd have to think harder before including his 2000-2005 scores, but from his 2008-present output, the concert arrangements I like the most are:

 

Irina's Theme (the new one he wrote for live performances, not the film cue mashup that's on the OST)

Marion's theme (new concert arrangement for live performances, not anything from the 80s)

The Adventure Continues

Rey's Theme

End Credits from TFA

Learning The Call

The Homecoming

The Peterson House And Finale

Getting Out The Vote (live version, not album version)

Elegy

 

I really  like Irina's Theme. Williams gets great mileage of it within the score. But I thought the concert version was a bit wishy-washy.

 

Is there a youtube video of the live performance of the new version of Irina's Theme.

[Jay 37,368]

The track called Irina's Theme on the OST is nothing more than bits from three different film cues (Irina Spalko, End Credit, Russians Reappear) edited together.

 

Here's a video of a performance of the actual concert arrangement he wrote later:

 

 

 

I'm sure there's a better video out there but I don't have time to google right now nor a bookmark or anything for a good version

[mrbellamy 6,287]

1 hour ago, loert said:

Not yet. However it is almost identical to the OST version. The only major difference is that the statement of Poe's theme is extended, so that it sounds closer to the statement present in "I Can Fly Anything".

 

Goes even a little longer than that, doesn't it? Probably more like "The Resistance" on the FYC.

 

It's hard to whittle down these things. Suffice to say that I love just about everything from Star Wars and Harry Potter, and his end credits suites this decade have been absolutely exceptional, "The Homecoming" and of course "The Jedi Steps & Finale" being my favorites. Honestly still not sure which one I prefer from these two.

 

I just love all these arrangements in general, they're always so fun and often incredibly moving. Also wanna mention "Recollections" and "Jazz Autographs" (I think this counts as one?) which hit the spot.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

8 minutes ago, Jay said:

The track called Irina's Theme on the OST is nothing more than bits from three different film cues (Irina Spalko, End Credit, Russians Reappear) edited together.

 

Here's a video of a performance of the actual concert arrangement he wrote later:

 

 

 

I'm sure there's a better video out there but I don't have time to google right now nor a bookmark or anything for a good version

 

This is interesting. It still doesn't include the fantastic action variant of her theme used whenever she does anything badass on screen. In the Jungle Chase, her theme is almost like a strident march. It might have been interesting to hear that development in the suite somehow.

 

But you are right, it is atleast better than the one on the album.

[Jay 37,368]

I consider that action theme to be a theme for Dovchenko

[Loert 2,514]

26 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

Goes even a little longer than that, doesn't it? Probably more like "The Resistance" on the FYC.

 

Yes, you are right, it is closer to that in terms of length (two bars more) and orchestration.

 

Been a long time since I listened to the FYC.

[artguy360 1,843]

Is Buckbeak's Flight considered a concert suite? The version on the OST seems to be very close to how it is scored to the film. The percussion in the beginning and the shortness of the track make me think of it more as a film cue than a concert suite. 

[Jay 37,368]

It's a film cue.

[Quintus 5,399]

1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

What are you talking about? Do you mean the rendition of Rey's theme from the end credits?

 

 

 

Yes. That version has been overwritten for the blu-ray edition. 

[mrbellamy 6,287]

2 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

Is Buckbeak's Flight considered a concert suite? The version on the OST seems to be very close to how it is scored to the film. The percussion in the beginning and the shortness of the track make me think of it more as a film cue than a concert suite. 

 

Yeah. I wouldn't count Aunt Marge's Waltz either.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

It's not my absolute favorite or anything but I've always had a soft spot for "Dobby the House Elf".

[mrbellamy 6,287]

I love it too. I think Gilderoy Lockhart is the only theme piece from Potter that I'm not so crazy about, really.

[publicist 4,643]

'Snowy's Theme' with it's Shostakovichian piano scherzo is one of the better, read: more original, ones.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So original...for a Shostakovich rip off!

[publicist 4,643]

Well, it's Williams, so...

[Loert 2,514]

57 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

I think Gilderoy Lockhart is the only theme piece from Potter that I'm not so crazy about, really.

 

Same here. For me, there are two Williams styles which I'm not terribly fond of, one of which is the spiky bass thing he does for Lockhart and in The Last Crusade's "No Ticket" (as examples).

[mrbellamy 6,287]

What's the other one?

 

I don't mind the style, necessarily....there's a quirky charm to it, but yeah, it only has limited appeal.

[Loert 2,514]

1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

What's the other one?

 

His "happy kiddish" style. The worst offenders would be the final chase from E.T., Yoda's Theme, some portions of Hook...maybe Anakin's Theme. I'm OK with Home Alone, because that's more 'Christmassy' despite being kiddish. And I'm perfectly OK with his marches like 1941, Raiders, Superman etc. because despite being happy, they're not really kiddish.

 

I don't think it's all bad music when he does it, but to me it comes off as a tad saccharine and "easy", especially when it's in your face as in the first example I mentioned. To me at least, it has "limited appeal". But ultimately it comes down to personal taste I think.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I agree.  There are many Williams modes that just don't hold lasting interest for me.  But the ones that do, well... yeah.  The easiest example I can give is that I far, far prefer Treesong to the first violin concerto.  When it's the high romantics channeled through Williams, I'm just not too compelled.  When it's really Williams being Williams, jazzy, modern, neo-tonal, that's when my ears perk up.

 

As for Yoda's theme, surely you don't mind the tune itself, right?  But the "buh duh nah, nah nah nah..." woodwind thing, yeah, that never really worked for me.  And it's got one of those oddly unconvincing modulations I was talking about a while back.

[Gnome in Plaid 219]

No love for "Battle of the Heroes" or "...with Malice Toward None"?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

1 hour ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

When it's the high romantics channeled through Williams, I'm just not too compelled. 

 

I'm with you for the most part, but what about the dark romance of say... Dracula?

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

1 hour ago, Gnome in Plaid said:

No love for "Battle of the Heroes" or "...with Malice Toward None"?

I'd definitely throw "With Malice Toward None" up there as one of my favorite concert suites by Williams. I feel like that effort, along with much of the score to Lincoln, is some of the best stuff Williams has conceived post-2000. Sometimes it's a little haunting, sometimes it's beautiful, but the work as a whole is consistently beautiful. It feels a bit more like Williams was writing from a point of reflection, if that makes sense, which is quite enjoyable.  

[Will 2,215]

Well, this has to be included:

 

 

So good. 

[igger6 894]

"Fawkes the Phoenix" is, in my book, the most underrated theme in the HP franchise and the most recent example of Williams in jaw-dropping, straight-out-of-heaven-gorgeous melody mode, without any of the technical filigree that complicates parts of Lincoln and War Horse for me.  It's Williams back in Born on the Fourth of July / "Somewhere in my Memory" / Force Theme form (a mode I was afraid we were done with until he revisited it for Rey's Theme).  Hearing Enguerrand-Friedrich Lühl finally cover "Fawkes" on his recent album made me realize anew the lack of love it gets in the admittedly small genre of Williams chamber covers.

 

OK, as I'm reading this, the live version of "With Malice Toward None" kicked in and made me think I'm being too hard on the old boy.  That's also pretty gorgeous.  But it doesn't have the catchy songlike phrase structure of his most timeless stuff.  Also, I teach literature, and the way the concert suite emulates the life cycle of a phoenix (nice pretty bird, fiery inferno, triumphant return, nice pretty bird again) is ingenious musical storytelling.  It almost makes me wonder why Williams bothered composing the "Chamber of Secrets" theme when he had a perfectly good menacing villain theme embedded in "Fawkes" that, if memory serves, we never actually hear in the film.  (Then again, does "Chamber of Secrets" play in the film either?  So much pointless overachieving in that score.  I don't get why it seems so forgotten.)

 

"Dobby the House Elf" is also cute, serviceable, and songlike in the best '80s-Williams way, which serves to highlight the fact that Chamber of Secrets is probably my desert-island Potter score, considering it reprises much of the best stuff from Sorcerer's Stone while adding some positively cracking new themes.  (Can we talk about "The Spiders"?!)

 

OK, irrelevant tangent concluded.

 

P.S. Wait, one more!  The best thing about "Battle of the Heroes" is that it inspired John Debney to rip it off and improve on it in Lair.  (There needs to be a word for ripoffs that improve on the original, like "Parade of the Ewoks."  How about "stealevation"?)

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

4 hours ago, Sharky said:

 

I'm with you for the most part, but what about the dark romance of say... Dracula?

 

Honestly, that's a score I haven't heard enough of!

 

 

1 hour ago, igger6 said:

 

OK, as I'm reading this, the live version of "With Malice Toward None" kicked in and made me think I'm being too hard on the old boy.

 

A.I.. > "With Malice Towards None" > everything else

[publicist 4,643]

6 hours ago, Gnome in Plaid said:

No love for "Battle of the Heroes" or "...with Malice Toward None"?

 

I really like both.

2 hours ago, igger6 said:

"Fawkes the Phoenix" is, in my book, the most underrated theme in the HP franchise and the most recent example of Williams in jaw-dropping, straight-out-of-heaven-gorgeous melody mode, without any of the technical filigree that complicates parts of Lincoln and War Horse for me.  It's Williams back in Born on the Fourth of July / "Somewhere in my Memory" / Force Theme form. 

 

I quite like that, too, but it's just more of 'Home Alone 2' (rather than 'Home Alone', which chamber music charme sadly wasn't preserved). How that cutesy Nussknacker stuff compares to the Force Theme or, god forbid, 'Born on the 4th f July' i don't know, though. 

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

9 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Honestly, that's a score I haven't heard enough of!

 

There's so much terrific material left off the album you might as well watch the film, which itself is fairly underrated. With Larry Olivier and Donald Pleasence vs. Frank Langella you can't go wrong.

 

8 hours ago, publicist said:

 How that cutesy Nussknacker stuff compares to the Force Theme or, god forbid, 'Born on the 4th f July' i don't know, though. 

 

Fawkes, the Force Theme and Born on the Fourth of July are all written in Williams's modal vein, which is indebted to RVW and the English folk song tradition.

[Stempel 136]

In my opinion, Suites are more than one Track. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well a suite is a track too...

[nightscape94 965]

27 minutes ago, Stempel said:

In my opinion, Suites are more than one Track.

 

In the classical sense, yes.  A ballet suite, for example, would contain many pieces from the ballet.  Or an orchestral suite from the Baroque era would contain different parts (Menuet, Bourree, etc)

 

In film music it's intended to reflect numerous filmic themes in one piece of music.  To that end, most of the pieces mentioned in this thread aren't suites, but concert arrangements of themes.

 

The best piece of music that Williams wrote that best uses the many themes of the score, that I would consider a suite, is the last 15 minutes or so of E.T., commonly known as "Adventures on Earth".  It feels more like a tone poem.  Most of his end credits suites, even the best ones such as ESB or TFA, still basically have a structure of one theme after the next.

[publicist 4,643]

1 hour ago, Sharky said:

Fawkes, the Force Theme and Born on the Fourth of July are all written in Williams's modal vein, which is indebted to RVW and the English folk song tradition.

 

Technicalities (and i'm not sure you would pass an exam with the british classicism/BOTF claim, Barber breeding Puccini sounds more like it). All three are still wonderful in their own way.

39 minutes ago, nightscape94 said:

The best piece of music that Williams wrote that best uses the many themes of the score, that I would consider a suite, is the last 15 minutes or so of E.T., commonly known as "Adventures on Earth".  It feels more like a tone poem.  

 

The last minute or so to me sounds more like Leonard Bernstein got mad while conducting a Mahler symphony. Loved that when i was young but now i hardly can listen to all these cymbal crashes without cringing.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

4 minutes ago, publicist said:

Technicalities (and i'm not sure you would pass an exam with the british classicism/BOTF claim, Barber breeding Puccini sounds more like it)

 

I thought the Tallis Fantasia parallels were obvious with BOTF, but thanks for the erm, vivid imagery.

[publicist 4,643]

No, that isn't really Tallis to my ears - too broad a comparison. The 'Nessun Dorma' connection and the quite earthy american feeling seem to me more of a fingerprint tha the divised strings.