Filmtracks review is up...
http://www.filmtrack.../war_horse.html
I can't believe he gave this one only four stars. This is a five stars score!
War Horse MUSIC Discussion Thread
Started by Jason LeBlanc, Nov 02 2011 07:47 PM
236 replies to this topic
#81
Michael
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Posted 27 November 2011 - 04:10 PM
If you start taking yourself seriously, then you’re in deep trouble! - Jerry Goldsmith
#82
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Posted 27 November 2011 - 05:09 PM
Are there still people who hold Clemmensen's reviews in that high regard?
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
#83
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Posted 27 November 2011 - 07:10 PM
Are there still people who hold Clemmensen's reviews in any regard?
Repeat the JWFan pledge after me: 'I hereby recognise John Towner Williams' place in the world as the great composer there has ever been, and I therefore renounce the works of Rozsa, Korngold, Herrmann, Horner, Kamen, Giacchino (unless the prophecy is fulfilled and he becomes the heir to JTW) and Goldsmith, especially Goldsmith. I understand that if I ever refer to Jurassic Park as anything less than "a masterpiece sixty-five million years in the making" I will be resigned to living out my days at the Zimmershrine.'
#84
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Posted 27 November 2011 - 07:29 PM
I've usually agreed with Clemmensen's reviews. I still enjoy reading them even if he gave a 5 star score 4 stars.
#85
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Posted 27 November 2011 - 09:02 PM
Are there still people who hold Clemmensen's reviews in that high regard?
I think he does a good job. I disagree with him in this case, but his reviews are always a good read.
His biggest flaw as a reviewer is that sometimes he fails to see the forest for the trees. For example, he spent most of his time bitching about how PoA didn't keep in line with the series (and repeat Hedwig's theme enough), rather than seeing the wonderful music before him.
But even with that flaw, I'd say I hold his reviews in higher regard than most other reviewers.
#86
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Posted 27 November 2011 - 10:20 PM
I haven't read his review yet, but I don't find War Horse a five-star score. I like it a lot, but I think 4/5 is adequate rating.
#87
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Posted 27 November 2011 - 10:34 PM
He himself said it was satisfyingly close to his best efforts, it's more like a 4.5 star review.
#88
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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:15 PM
His primary critique seems to be that it's too thematically complicated and that Williams abandons them during the middle part.
Valid point, but not enough to drag it down to 4 stars. I maintain that this is a solid 5 star score.
Valid point, but not enough to drag it down to 4 stars. I maintain that this is a solid 5 star score.
#89
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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:56 PM
I don't Christian really "gets" Williams more serious side. Not saying that War Horse is completely serious, but he only seems to give five stars to his classic scores or the fun ones. No love for the more challenging ones, like Memoirs for example.
If you start taking yourself seriously, then you’re in deep trouble! - Jerry Goldsmith
#90
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 12:56 AM
He called Memoirs an "easy listen" though.
#91
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:03 AM
He called Memoirs an "easy listen" though.
Memoirs is an easy listen.
#92
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:24 AM
Are there still people who hold Clemmensen's reviews in that high regard?
I do.
Still haven't got to the score yet. It has been the score I've been looking forward to the most this year and I believe it will be a 5 star effort. And just because CC rates a score that others might not agree with in terms of the rating, it doesn't change the fact that he still writes fantastic reviews.
And after all, its HIS opinion. Why should anyone have to insult or undermine that? All reviews are subjective, and he is just expressing what he thought of the score with very solid arguments. No one asked anybody else to conform to it.
An excellent review, I say.
I don't understand the whole Filmtracks hate around here...
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Music Muse Reviews: "Escape From Tomorrow by Abel Korzeniowski
#93
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:25 AM
He criticized Memoirs for being to simplistic but he praised Lady in the Water for it's "Simplistic Orchestral Beauty".
#94
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:41 AM
I'd hardly call Memoirs of a Geisha simplistic
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#95
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:47 AM
H never claimed it was "simplistic" in the sense you referred to. He meant to say that the score was easier on the ears, especially when compared to his other works of the same year (War of the Worlds and Revenge of the Sith). He still praises Williams for his masterful blend of Japanese and western styles. He never claimed it was simplistic in a compositional sense. Just easier on the ears when compared to something as dense as War of the Worlds...
Music Muse Reviews: "Escape From Tomorrow by Abel Korzeniowski
#96
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 01:48 AM
Plowing is still one of the best JW tracks I've ever heard.
#97
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 07:04 AM
That's how I interpreted it too. At any given moment in Memoirs, there's likely less going on in the orchestra than in RotS (a lot of Memoirs is solos or very sparse orchestrations). I don't think he was speaking to its compositional or thematic complexity.H never claimed it was "simplistic" in the sense you referred to. He meant to say that the score was easier on the ears, especially when compared to his other works of the same year (War of the Worlds and Revenge of the Sith). He still praises Williams for his masterful blend of Japanese and western styles. He never claimed it was simplistic in a compositional sense. Just easier on the ears when compared to something as dense as War of the Worlds...
I find Clemmensen's reviews to be interesting reads, even though I often disagree with him. They're very well thought out.
Recently Purchased CDs:
1. Nightwatch/Killer By Night - Johnny Williams and Quincy Jones 2. Diamond Head/Gone with the Wave - Johnny Williams/Lalo Schifrin 3. Mass - Leonard Bernstein 4. Bernstein with the New York Philharmonic - Leonard Bernstein
1. Nightwatch/Killer By Night - Johnny Williams and Quincy Jones 2. Diamond Head/Gone with the Wave - Johnny Williams/Lalo Schifrin 3. Mass - Leonard Bernstein 4. Bernstein with the New York Philharmonic - Leonard Bernstein
#98
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Posted 28 November 2011 - 12:46 PM
Filmtracks review is up...
http://www.filmtrack.../war_horse.html
I can't believe he gave this one only four stars. This is a five stars score!
Reading his review is only good if you want to ruin the listening experience of a score...
I never liked his reviews.
#99
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:57 AM
Why should that affect the listening experience? It's just some reviewers opinion.
Filmtracks review is up...
http://www.filmtrack.../war_horse.html
I can't believe he gave this one only four stars. This is a five stars score!
Reading his review is only good if you want to ruin the listening experience of a score...
I never liked his reviews.
#100
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 07:40 AM
Why should that affect the listening experience? It's just some reviewers opinion.
I was only (half) kidding to make my point that I think his reviews are really bad...
#101
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 07:27 AM
Sorry, if this has been already discussed somewhere (I couldn't find it, if so), but what's up with the distortions on the WH album? I hear it almost every time the Bonding Theme is played by the brass section (for example Track 15, around 4:05; or in the last track).
Anybody else hear that? I don't know how you call it--maybe "distortion" is not the right word--but it's a sort of "thrrrrrraaaappppp" in the background...
Anybody else hear that? I don't know how you call it--maybe "distortion" is not the right word--but it's a sort of "thrrrrrraaaappppp" in the background...
#102
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 07:55 AM
I can certainly hear it too and it is just how the instruments were recorded, either being too close to the mic or mixing together so that they produce such an undertone I guess.
Ars superior est vita hominum.
"We pop out and come into the world and music is there. We didn't invent it - it's all organised in the atmosphere by divinity or whatever. It's a miracle." - John Williams-
I think music is a stream of some kind. It could be blood. It could be water. It could be ether. Whatever it is it seems to be a living, organic force that’s in motion, that serves humanity and is part of humanity and part of what describes us as humans. We sing, play, dance, all the things that we do. And there is a vibrant and great literature we have been given. ... As musicians, we join the stream. We swim in the stream with all the other millions of music makers. It’s a life force, a strong one, surrounding us and we are part of it. -John Williams-
#103
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:01 AM
What's up with the distortions on the War Horse album?
It bothers me quite a lot...
I am the only one who feels that way? You can turn the volume down, then it's not so noticeable, but it's still annoying as hell.
In comparison the brass section in "Hymn to the Fallen" for example was recorded perfectly! No "distortions" whatsoever!
It bothers me quite a lot...
I am the only one who feels that way? You can turn the volume down, then it's not so noticeable, but it's still annoying as hell.
In comparison the brass section in "Hymn to the Fallen" for example was recorded perfectly! No "distortions" whatsoever!
#104
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:43 AM
Not noticed this....played that section of track 15 over and over again and I must admit I can't hear anything wrong....all I can hear is the brass opening their throats a bit during what is obviously marked as a crescendo (since they are all doing it)....Brass players - when playing louder - tend to have to open our throats physically so that the sound does not get forced or too edgy....I think what is happening on this track is that the timbre of the note is changing as the crescendo happens, but nicely in control - that's all. You wouldn't have heard such a thing in Hymn to the Fallen because there is no passage where there is such a crescendo in such a short space of time - the timbre does change, but over 4 bars or so (especially in the brass "choir" section) - here it happens over one note.
#105
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:47 AM
But you hear what I am talking about, right?
I am pretty sure that's not done by the instruments... rather it's the way that section was recorded. "An undertone," "a distortion"... it's rather distracting. And I believe I hear that in the trailer (where this music was used) as well.
I am pretty sure that's not done by the instruments... rather it's the way that section was recorded. "An undertone," "a distortion"... it's rather distracting. And I believe I hear that in the trailer (where this music was used) as well.
#106
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:19 AM
Are you hearing this while listening to mp3 or the actual CD?
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
#107
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:20 AM
The former. Why? On the actual CD you don't hear it?
#108
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:27 AM
It could very well be a compression factor. The same problem I encountered during several big "tutti" moments on Tintin mp3s, but they disappeared when I listened to the actual CD, which has richer dynamic range and less severe peak limiting.
"It's still baffling to me. I sit down with a pencil and a piece of paper and do my best... The remarkable thing is that my music is heard by billions of people." --John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
"Let me say, however, there is no "next" John Williams. Sadly, he is unique--- a figure who simultaneously embodies and transcends the music of all the masters of film music who preceded him (much like Brahms and Wagner of the Romantic era). He comes from a time when the craft of music in film was still one of the ear, heart and mind. Today, sadly, the craft is largely technical. Most composers do not conceive their music "inwardly" but rather at the computer--- and with rather limited skills, musically, at that. The inner spirit knows no boundaries--- our plastic abilities, sadly, do. John is a man of spirit, heart, intellect and soaring music." -- Conrad Pope about John Williams
#109
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 09:30 AM
I certainly hope so! 
#110
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:50 AM
Repeat the JWFan pledge after me: 'I hereby recognise John Towner Williams' place in the world as the great composer there has ever been, and I therefore renounce the works of Rozsa, Korngold, Herrmann, Horner, Kamen, Giacchino (unless the prophecy is fulfilled and he becomes the heir to JTW) and Goldsmith, especially Goldsmith. I understand that if I ever refer to Jurassic Park as anything less than "a masterpiece sixty-five million years in the making" I will be resigned to living out my days at the Zimmershrine.'
#111
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:12 PM
I already BOUGHT this some time ago, thanks!
#112
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 02:21 PM
The legally purchased MP3s sound perfectly fine.
"I find that Williams' scores have a strong narrative which comes best out in correct order." -- Incanus
#113
Jason LeBlanc
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 02:32 PM
I meant to mention this when I got my retail copy of the War Horse CD in the mail from Sony - I know what you're talking about Josh, or at least a similar one (I haven't checked out your specific time stamps).
In my experience, the actual CD sounds MUCH better than the official mp3s Sony sent out for review purposes. Listening to both in my car, the promotional mp3s would get distorted at the loud parts, while the retail CD does not. Also there was a blip between tracks 7&8 and tracks 12&13 on the promotional mp3s (since the tracks overlap) that is thankfully gone on the real CD (obviously).
Perhaps the Amazon and iTunes mp3s suffer from the same problems as the promotional Sony mp3s.
And I agree with the intent of Ricard's post - asking questions about the sound quality of illegal mp3s is completely pointless. Of course they might sound bad, who knows where the heck they were sourced from or what wacky encoder somebody used to make them. Starting a thread about the sound quality of illegal mp3s is just........ dumb. But if the official legal mp3s have sound problems, that certainly could be discussed. I don't have much experience with amazon mp3s (are they still 256kbps?), but I know the iTunes AACs are considered to generally be pretty good. A lot of European retailers sell mp3s at various bitrates I think, and I believe there are sites that sell lossless downloads as well. I just have no experience with them.
In my experience, the actual CD sounds MUCH better than the official mp3s Sony sent out for review purposes. Listening to both in my car, the promotional mp3s would get distorted at the loud parts, while the retail CD does not. Also there was a blip between tracks 7&8 and tracks 12&13 on the promotional mp3s (since the tracks overlap) that is thankfully gone on the real CD (obviously).
Perhaps the Amazon and iTunes mp3s suffer from the same problems as the promotional Sony mp3s.
And I agree with the intent of Ricard's post - asking questions about the sound quality of illegal mp3s is completely pointless. Of course they might sound bad, who knows where the heck they were sourced from or what wacky encoder somebody used to make them. Starting a thread about the sound quality of illegal mp3s is just........ dumb. But if the official legal mp3s have sound problems, that certainly could be discussed. I don't have much experience with amazon mp3s (are they still 256kbps?), but I know the iTunes AACs are considered to generally be pretty good. A lot of European retailers sell mp3s at various bitrates I think, and I believe there are sites that sell lossless downloads as well. I just have no experience with them.
-Jay
#114
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 02:41 PM
this discussion wasn't totally useless then
#115
Jason LeBlanc
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 02:49 PM
Asking a question about a distortion in illegal mp3s certainly is useless, and I would hope people are smart enough to realize that.
But if the legal mp3s sold by Amazon or iTunes (or wherever) have distortion then that is a problem.
But if the legal mp3s sold by Amazon or iTunes (or wherever) have distortion then that is a problem.
-Jay
#116
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 03:49 PM
Asking a question about a distortion in illegal mp3s certainly is useless, and I would hope people are smart enough to realize that.
But if the legal mp3s sold by Amazon or iTunes (or wherever) have distortion then that is a problem.
The real problem is that nobody said anything about ILLEGAL mp3's until Ricard did. I for one assumed the discussion was about PURCHASED mp3's. That seemed highly valid to me.
#117
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:32 PM
Something about the artwork of the War Horse CD puts me off. The cover image is a bit dark and seems to lack some of the colors of the original poster. I don't like the "Photoshopped" darkening behind the letters 'music composed and conducted by John Williams'. Comes across as a bit amateurish.
Then the back of the CD is so simplistic that it feels like one of those cheap synth re-recording CD's. The print on the CD itself is likewise very simplistic and lacks the classy feel of - let's say - Tintin. The only redeeming thing about it seems to be the inside pages of the booklet.
Is it just me..?
Then the back of the CD is so simplistic that it feels like one of those cheap synth re-recording CD's. The print on the CD itself is likewise very simplistic and lacks the classy feel of - let's say - Tintin. The only redeeming thing about it seems to be the inside pages of the booklet.
Is it just me..?
#118
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:39 PM
Hey, that's because of you that we got such a cover!
#119
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:55 PM
Hey, that's because of you that we got such a cover!
#120
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Posted 29 November 2011 - 11:40 PM
I'm not much of a fan of it either. I don't like the fonts much - too thin and weak.
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