MikeH

E.T. is the only movie where I actually thought once looking at it "This movie is like a ballet" like every action in every scene moving to and driven by the music.

I can't even count the number of times I've listened to this cue, and every single time that passage makes my body tense up because of how emotionally manipulative (in a good way) it is. Every time. 

I thought the very same about the last 15 minutes of CEOTK.  The music does 90% of the story telling with characters just looking in awe and it is a far more complex set of emotions that film's ending conveys.  Mystery + hope + fear + reunions + longing + joy + wonder + etc.  I've also heard this very same passage of E.T. pointed out by musicians about what they dislike most about Spielberg + JW.  I personally love it very much partially because I was a lonely young kid in the audience when I first saw and heard this film, Elliots age, and the film and score were incredibly moving and any time I hear it, I revisit my childhood.  It hits all the nostalgia checkboxes like Spielberg and JW do so well.  
 
I remember before E.T. was released, they really teased this up as a sequel to CEOTK of sorts.  CEOTK had a page in magazines just showing a road with a light at the end which was incredibly mysterious.  E.T. teased...first he scared us with Jaws, then entertained us...
 
 

It's the greatest synthesis of images, story, and music yet created.  (ET's finale, not Last Starfighter)

It's one of the most heart-tugging moments in the history of cinema. The music accompanies E.T. telling Elliot "come" and him answering "stay", which is the moment in which the tears have to flow and the story reaches its emotional peak. E.T. is such a masterpiece in how it builds tension and then releases it in the most profound and musically satisfactory way. It's a prime example of Williams looking at the film and writing music that express his sincere emotional reaction, like us audience.

So much of this comes down to the mix and how involved JW is in the final mix.  For composers, attending a mix is quite painful as for each cue you listen to very bad mixes slowly getting tweaked.   Generally, the mixer doesn't want any feedback until they're ready to show it to you because it's very much unfinished.  For instance, they'll solo the trumpet mic which is guaranteed to sound awful as they tweak frequencies in that mic, then add the trumpet to a tree and tweak some more then move on to horns and to the same, then combine trumpet and horns with decca tree, etc., none of which is close to what it should sound like.  This process is done for each instrumental group and when they are done, they'll ask for composer's comments.  JW being a veteran already knows all this so I very seriously doubt he attends the mix and probably gets a finished mix to give feedback.  In some cases, like Warhorse and Tintin, where both happened very close to each other, it's possible there was more delegation.  Additionally, there are multiple mixers, and they don't have the exact same "sound".  There is a clear and major sound difference between Eric Tomlinson (vintage LSO scores) and Shawn Murphy (prequel LSO scores).  Additionally, technology and aesthetics change over time.  1980's used lots of reverb.  Similarly, prequels had lots of reverb (to me, they used even more reverb).  2020's drier, more authentic acoustic recording is the style.  Additionally, mixing consoles evolve/devolve.  Let me explain.  I'm a purist and absolutely adore the vintage 1970's vacuum tube mixing console sound of the NEVE preamps - these were used in Abbey Road.  The problem is they're no longer made.  Now, it's usually a chip that emulates the NEVE sound - EVEN ON THE NEVE gear!  That means if you buy a contemporary NEVE preamp, it will be an emulation and to purists, have a different color than the vintage vacuum tube gear that went out of fashion.  I can hear the difference in sound even though it's the same product because the tech is no longer the same.  This is true for each and every component.  A pro recording engineer I worked with used this analogy which I like.  He brings his own vintage gear to record orchestras because the microphone membrane is more sensitive to vibrations than the exact same mic if it's new.  The analogy he used was of a baseball glove that is very stiff when new but over time, the leather softens and relaxes and moves much more easily.  This is the same with the microphone vibrating membrane that captures sound.  So, a 1960's era Neumann mic could be superior to a 2022 modern era version of the very same mic.  All these factors play a role in making it sound, well different.  I think a really great test is to hear the vintage recording in a remaster and how great it sounds (compare Jaws original OST to the intrada 2CD, same with E.T. and Close Encounters.  Note that Jaws, E.T., Close Encounters were recorded at Fox Newmann scoring stage with most of the same players.  Horner's Avatar was recorded at the same stage in 2009.  Of course, mostly different players and sound engineer plus mixer.   I know some of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was also recorded at UCLA Royce Hall - a concert hall that I happen to like the acoustics of.  There are so many variables at play.  

There has been a shift in the way trumpets sound in Williams scores. The difference is both subtle and impossible to ignore, and unfortunately, it's a change for the worse. I would like your help in figuring out what has changed.
 
(This is where I give the disclaimers that this is all entirely subjective, that I have the utmost respect for professional trumpeters on both sides of the pond, and that there are non-Williams scores with similar trumpet issues.)
 
The change became really noticeable with KOTCS, and it's stuck around in his (LA) recordings ever since. It's most noticable in loud passages for multiple trumpets, perhaps playing triads or octaves. There is a quality to the sound that is somehow both grating and underwhelming—aggravating yet anemic.
 
Here are some examples of JW scores in which the trumpets do NOT have this problem:
 
E.T. Temple of Doom Hook Jurassic Park The Lost World
I have no complaints whatsoever about the trumpets in these scores, all of which were recorded at the Sony Scoring Stage with LA studio musicians. The sound is bright, clear, and modern, but not unduly fatiguing.
 
As the new millennium hit, Williams recorded six scores in London: three SW prequels and three Potters. These too feature glorious trumpets, recorded mostly at Abbey Road and mostly with LSO players.
 
Williams's next film was KOTCS. Suddenly, the trumpets took on a different sound: dull but strident, claustrophobic but distant, weak but distracting. It's hard to put into words. To be clear, these performances and recordings are still by professionals, but something definitely shifted.
 
Unfortunately, this wasn't a one-off. Tintin, the SW sequels, the Adventures of Han … they all have the same problem. But we've also been treated to a few more London recordings—Galaxy's Edge, for instance, and Powell's adaptations for Solo. And what do you know? These sound great.
I've become increasingly preoccupied with trying to figure out what's different on a technical level. Here are some possible factors that have occurred to me:
 
Choice of recording venue Choice of mics Placement of mics Mixing choices Tape vs. digital Use of artificial reverb Preference for Bb trumpets in London and C trumpets in LA Choice of specific trumpet manufacturers/models Shifts in performer technique/style Shifts in compositional style  
But I don't see how any of these alone could account for the change.
 
What do you think? It's understandably hard to find truly detailed information on a lot of these recordings, so despite all my listening and searching and pondering, I haven't been able to come up with an answer.

Saw it 3D yesterday and in IMAX today. 
 

 
The 3D conversion is magnificent.  All the stuff shot at water level is unbelievable.  Quint’s death is terrifying… you feel the struggle more.  Quint looking down at Brody and Hooper on the deck from atop the mast is breathtaking.  The approach on Alex Kinter and Chrissie also stand out.  Just don’t expect Ben Gardner’s head to land in your lap.  This is a conversion on par with Jurassic Park, and I really hope it gets a 3D Blu Ray release, but it may be too late for that. It’s unfortunate that they released this conversion at the same time as the IMAX, because most people will choose IMAX rather than see both, and they will have skewed data on interest in 3D since it’s Jaws Vs Jaws. 
 
The IMAX presentation has the advantage of technical superiority and screen size of course, so it’s equally wonderful. 
 
See both if you can. 
 
The sound mix seems to be the best of old and new. I usually choose Mono at home, so maybe it’s the same mix as on the Blu Ray (new gunshots, old whale calls).
 
I will say that E.T. dazzled just a bit more due to the better audio and an aspect ratio which utilizes the IMAX screen better. 

I just finished seeing Jaws in IMAX 3D. Holy cow; seeing it remastered in this format was a surreal experience. The picture and sound were phenomenal; the music was loud and clear. Best way to see it since the 4K restoration. I still jumped out of my seat at the specific moments and was on the edge of my seat. This was such a thrill!

Yes! The friendship theme immediately sprang to mind after I heard Helena's. It gives the score a sense of progression from TROS.
I've really liked the style of TROS so here's hope more similarities are underway  

Well everyone heard allusions to the Emperor's Theme in Rey's Theme after hearing TFA and look how that--
 
...
 
Nevermind.

I like The Last Jedi recording that went unused. 

Were you taking any anti-psychotics, at the time?

Well, I’ll be the first to admit I’ve beaten tree-face into the ground, but I had fun discussing it on social media today. I’ll also admit it was pretty gratifying to hear from Caprice Rothe, the original puppeteer who operated E.T.’s hands, who chimed in on my post!  
 

 
Valid!

Saw ET last night and yup, all I can do is echo with everyone else saying how amazing it was. Sadly the nearest IMAX for me is one of those Regal fake ones, lol. But at least it was LOUD. Like the music was BLARING, and I wouldn't have had it any other way. Hearing it that loud and in surround sound was incredible. The music and the movie itself... it was hard to hold back tears. There were definitely some that still escaped. The theater had a small crowd, that clustered sort of close together, and people were INTO IT. Such a nice experience.
 
I also echo being one of those people who had NEVER noticed the "old man" face on the tree inside the ship before! Wow! Hahaha. That was a surprise to finally notice that detail.
 
I'm excited to see Jaws next, and am debating between IMAX or 3D for it (although will choose IMAX 3D if available). I think in the end I would choose IMAX if I had to, again for the music to be as loud as possible.

Not as weird as a breathing tree face.

Didn't see that coming ...
 
 

Just got out of ET in imax, which was incredible! Definitely recommend it before it goes away. Anyways, was watching the credits and I noticed, ET’s music editor wasn’t Ken Wannberg. It was Ken Hall, which was kind of a surprise. Makes me wonder why Wannberg couldn’t do it for ET.

Jango and Obi-Wan flying through the asteroid field is my favourite sound design sequence ever.

As we steamroll through the content of the Disney Era of Star Wars, I am really missing the contributions of Ben Burtt.  
 
There are a couple threads with some good articles linked, but the short story is after TFA, Lucasfilm phased him out and just use his catalogue to drag-n-drop, leading to just a muddy mess of sound, as Burtt describes in this article.
 
Have any sound design examples from Mandalorian, Book of Boba Fett, Rogue One, Solo, Last Jedi, Rise of Skywalker, or Obi-Wan Kenobi stood out to you?  I can't think of any.  This forum dissected a bit of sound design from The Prequels, but in retrospect, they have a scintillating clarity (especially TPM) that is lacking in the current product.  
 
It's not just the design, but the mixing and editing.  I crank up the Battle of Naboo, and when the Queen reclaims her Throne room, you hear every blaster bolt (Royal and Federation) echo around you, you hear the door slam slut with absolute clarity.  Even the punches, kicks, and body blows during the lightsaber duels sound painful and dangerous.  (Although I guess lightsabers now aren't that dangerous since it's pretty standard to survive being run through with one).  The tension in Jango's metal cable as Obi dangles from it, and his "uggh" from front to rear surrounds as he falls towards camera.  These examples aren't really innovative; they're just effective use of balance and clarity for emotional effect.
 
I really enjoyed his contribution to Star Trek '09... the ship's nautical ping and the radio chatter, as well as the "pew - ping" of the phaser battle aboard Nero's Romulan ship.  The absence of sound as they begin their free fall jump down the drill.
 
I know he's got his detractors, and it's always a competition with score, but I'm simply saying I miss hearing sounds that make me say "Whoah".  Hasn't happened in a while, and I'm afraid I am going to miss Burtt on Indy 5.
 
I think it's really sad the way they gently showed him the door.

Since it just came up as a clip in stuff I was watching I will take a stand and say that "Carrie Poppins" was one of the most thrilling scenes in The Last Jedi. I'm sure the music helped a lot.
 
But more than anything in all six movies it underlined that Leia is a GORRAM SKYWALKER!

I think generally with this stuff, the deeper the cuts the better (unless the recognizability is part of it, especially for comedic effect) but yeah I could get into it. 
 
That use of The Fury in Euphoria was cool