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oierem

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  1. Like
    oierem reacted to Docteur Qui in Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion   
    Why on earth Williams elected to omit the fabulous cues featuring the Chamber theme from the OST is baffling to me. Especially when there was so much material from the first score that was on the album. I know this isn't a new thought, but it does add weight to the perception that CoS is a half-baked score, even if the complete score presentation shows that's not necessarily the case.
  2. Like
    oierem got a reaction from Docteur Qui in Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion   
    Then I would consider it a lazy effort, and a "partly unispired" score (I'm strictly referring to the parts that aren't original). 
    Williams is known for writing very original and interesting sequel scores (as well as some clearly unoriginal ones, I know). It's hard to say what would've happen if he had had enough time to write Chambers properly.
     
    But I can't truly say the Chambers score, as a whole, is a great one because it's heavily dependent of the previous score, and the new themes are not developed enough (the Chamber of Secrets theme being the most clear example). 
     
     
    The droid factory tracks previous music. It's not something Williams (or anyone else) wrote. 
    You are wrong about the scene being added very late, though. Williams did compose music for the scene. It just wasn't used for whatever reason (the lenght of the scene changing, or, most probably, Lucas wanting a different more thematic/dramatic approach to the scene - the original cue is very wacky and almost comical).
     
     
    I don't know that, but it was recorded in LA, so it's not a standing orchestra like the LSO, right?
     
  3. Like
    oierem reacted to Falstaft in The "Here They Come" Appreciation Thread   
    Quite right! One of the prettiest "variants"!
     
     
  4. Like
    oierem got a reaction from Falstaft in The "Here They Come" Appreciation Thread   
    And once in Minority Report
  5. Like
    oierem reacted to Falstaft in The "Here They Come" Appreciation Thread   
    This is what we've been calling Shmi's theme. 
    ...
     
    Unless I've tallied wrong, it's used:
    On one occasion in TPM (so def. not a leitmotif at that point), Four distinct times in AOTC (def. a leitmotif), And maybe once, vaguely, in ROTS. I go back and forth on whether this was an intentional reference or just four notes that coincidentally resemble her theme.  The "It's Working" theme is, as far as I remember, totally restricted to TPM. It goes like this:
     

     
    You get it once in "Anakin's Racer Roars to Life," and then a variant of it is developed as the main tune in "Anakin is Free." The middle phrase is very close to ROTJ:SE's Victory Celebration and the end of the first phrase of Across the Stars, though this is probably a case of Williams's consistent harmonic language more than an intentional reference.
  6. Like
    oierem got a reaction from Tallguy in The "Here They Come" Appreciation Thread   
    The direct copy/paste only happens in Superstructure Chase, which I find appropriate as a way to finish the trilogy going full circle. 
    Sail Barge Assault (the new version) had to be composed in between sessions because the original piece was rejected, so Williams ended up using every material he could to create the 5-minute action cue in just a couple of days. (However, it is NOT a copy of Here They Come)
  7. Like
    oierem got a reaction from Edmilson in The "Here They Come" Appreciation Thread   
    The direct copy/paste only happens in Superstructure Chase, which I find appropriate as a way to finish the trilogy going full circle. 
    Sail Barge Assault (the new version) had to be composed in between sessions because the original piece was rejected, so Williams ended up using every material he could to create the 5-minute action cue in just a couple of days. (However, it is NOT a copy of Here They Come)
  8. Like
    oierem reacted to Jay in Which concert was better, Vienna or Berlin?   
    That'd be cool!
  9. Like
    oierem got a reaction from ChrisAfonso in Which concert was better, Vienna or Berlin?   
    I ABSOLUTELY agree with you. 
    Even though I'm a huge fan of John Williams' film music, I don't particularly like his concert programs (other than, as you say, as a light celebratory occasion). As you say, Williams has the ability to tell a story through music in his film scores, but he rarely does that in concert. 
     
    I find that some of my absolute favourite scores (Star Wars, Hook...) are very poorly represented by the standard "highlight" concert pieces. I too wish that Williams would at least play several cues of the same score, creating a coherent suite.
     
    My ideal concert program would only include music form three or four film scores, at at least 20-30 minutes of music for each (either as a suite or as a continuous piece). 
  10. Like
    oierem got a reaction from Fabulin in Which concert was better, Vienna or Berlin?   
    I ABSOLUTELY agree with you. 
    Even though I'm a huge fan of John Williams' film music, I don't particularly like his concert programs (other than, as you say, as a light celebratory occasion). As you say, Williams has the ability to tell a story through music in his film scores, but he rarely does that in concert. 
     
    I find that some of my absolute favourite scores (Star Wars, Hook...) are very poorly represented by the standard "highlight" concert pieces. I too wish that Williams would at least play several cues of the same score, creating a coherent suite.
     
    My ideal concert program would only include music form three or four film scores, at at least 20-30 minutes of music for each (either as a suite or as a continuous piece). 
  11. Like
    oierem reacted to Score in Which concert was better, Vienna or Berlin?   
    I totally agree with this, but the problem (for me) is that he does not frequently present his film music in concert, but rather concert arrangements whose aim seems to be that of giving a feeling of "remembrance" of some key moments of the respective films, a bit like opera ouvertures. What I love of his film music is the impressive ability with which he can create stories with purely musical means, which live independently of the film. But to grasp those stories, one needs, as I tried to say, to go through the musical journey (or at least, part of it) that the cues, all together, constitute. This kind of journey is what I miss when listening to most of his concert arrangements: the journey cannot be done in 3-5 minutes. That's why I prefer to listen to his film scores in their original form, or to the more elaborated concert suites, like that of Cowboys, as @publicist was suggesting. And I would prefer him to present well-developed suites... maybe a set of 5-6 consecutive cues played "as written" for the film; I can think of many such sets, from different movies, which would provide great musical experiences. I mean, I don't care about the critics' opinions (I didn't even read the one mentioned above, since I don't speak German), but if they are criticizing the structure of the concert arrangements, I think they have a point. It is not equivalent to criticize JW's music as a whole, but only the way in which some of it is presented in concert.
  12. Like
    oierem reacted to Score in Which concert was better, Vienna or Berlin?   
    That's precisely the point, and it is something that has always bothered me as well. I am a classically trained musician, so my music world is dominated by people like Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev, and so on. Williams fits very well into that category for the outstanding quality of his film music, which is sometimes even more advanced than the works of many composers in the standard classical repertoire. However, I totally understand the criticisms about the "lack of structure", when they are directed towards his concert arrangements. A piece that lasts 3 or 5 minutes, and ends with a huge applause-calling crash as if it was the ending of a long journey represented by a symphony (or a film score), feels like an excess that aims more at getting an applause than at delivering musical content. When many such pieces are played in succession, I can understand why a reviewer with a classical musical background might get impatient. 
     
    An example of this tendency (for me, at least) is the concert arrangement of the Jurassic Park theme. The film score is gorgeous; the dinosaurs' theme plays beautifully in the scene where we see the beasts for the first time, the "journey to the island" theme is also perfect for its scene, and the thunderous finale is a satisfactory conclusion for the scene where the T-Rex establishes its supremacy at the end of the movie. But condensing all these elements into a few-minute piece somehow cheapens their effect, and it can only work because people remember the movie scenes (that's probably why the reviewer was not comfortable in judging them as pure music). The individual moments are beautiful, but the journey between them is even more important, at least for a classical music listener. That's why I wish JW played extended chunks of his film scores in concerts, rather than those concert arrangements (although several of them work very well anyways, for example the slow pieces from Star Wars - Princess Leia, Luke and Leia, the original version of Han Solo and the Princess...).  
  13. Like
    oierem reacted to Tom in Does the Fedora Still Fit?: Kingdom of the Crsytal Skull after 10 Years   
    It is simply a trope from pop culture about Nazca lines--no different than Stargate's treatment of the Ancient Egyptians and many other sci fi stories.  Hell, even Star Trek TNG claims human beings have accomplished what we have because we were seeded by aliens.  Its just standard sci-fi storytelling, and that is what they were going for in IV.  
  14. Thanks
    oierem got a reaction from MikeH in How long did it take JW to compose the various Star Wars scores?   
    Star Wars was spotted in early January 77... recorded in early March 77. 
    Empire was spotted in early November 79... recorded in late December 79/early January 80.
    Jedi was spotted in November 82 ... Recorded in January /February 83.
     
    Phantom Menace was spotted October 98 ... recorded February 99
    Attack of the Clones was spotted October 01.... recorded January 02
    Revenge of the Sith was spotted October 04.... recorded February 05
     
     
    Clearly, the first two scores were composed in a shorter time period, just under two months. 
    It's also fun to notice that there were things that hadn't been shot yet when Williams started recording the music, and therefore needed some editing.
     
    I think using the London Symphony was both an asset and a problem though, since the recording sessions had to be conducted way too early (which mostly affected the prequels, but the OT also suffered a bit)
     
    I think you're wrong about the copyists though.... I assume copyists could start working while Williams was still composing the later cues. I don't think he finishes composing until right before recording sessions begin. Consider that recording sessions are spread over a couple of weeks, so I guess the cues that were composed right before the first session are recorded towards the end, giving enough time to the copyists. 
     
  15. Like
    oierem reacted to Richard Penna in HOOK: Complete Cue List and Chronological Editing Guide   
    Shoddy edits doesn't mean that the creative intention is bad. I'm generally a supporter of tracking, as directors do it for positive creative reasons. The fact that some is achieved using not very good edits is unfortunate.
     
    Of course Titanic teaches us that listening to film edits isn't always a good idea, but if I may put my suggestion this way: of the handful of moments from TLW I always remembered most strongly, at least two of them turned out to be tracked, with absolutely nothing in the film itself indicating that they weren't the original composition.
  16. Like
    oierem got a reaction from enderdrag64 in My Star Wars soundtrack tracklists (OT)   
    It is taken from the concert recording, just not the same take used in the album. 
  17. Like
    oierem got a reaction from karelm in How long did it take JW to compose the various Star Wars scores?   
    Star Wars was spotted in early January 77... recorded in early March 77. 
    Empire was spotted in early November 79... recorded in late December 79/early January 80.
    Jedi was spotted in November 82 ... Recorded in January /February 83.
     
    Phantom Menace was spotted October 98 ... recorded February 99
    Attack of the Clones was spotted October 01.... recorded January 02
    Revenge of the Sith was spotted October 04.... recorded February 05
     
     
    Clearly, the first two scores were composed in a shorter time period, just under two months. 
    It's also fun to notice that there were things that hadn't been shot yet when Williams started recording the music, and therefore needed some editing.
     
    I think using the London Symphony was both an asset and a problem though, since the recording sessions had to be conducted way too early (which mostly affected the prequels, but the OT also suffered a bit)
     
    I think you're wrong about the copyists though.... I assume copyists could start working while Williams was still composing the later cues. I don't think he finishes composing until right before recording sessions begin. Consider that recording sessions are spread over a couple of weeks, so I guess the cues that were composed right before the first session are recorded towards the end, giving enough time to the copyists. 
     
  18. Like
    oierem reacted to Taikomochi in Hook - 30th Anniversary Double Vinyl coming November 2021 from Mondo Records   
    I’m not really sure what people think the soundtrack would have been like if they waited. It was already 75+ minutes. I don’t think Williams would have put more of the Ultimate War than what was on the original album as it would have lopsided the narrative on the album to have 15-25 min of climactic action. What is on the original album is a good presentation if you don’t know what’s missing. It works well as a climax. 
  19. Like
    oierem reacted to Manakin Skywalker in Star Wars Disenchantment   
    The man's almost 90 years old and doesn't watch these films aside from working on them. I can guarantee he doesn't know anything about the fandom and wouldn't give two shits anyway. He simply assumed the ending we got was the perfect ending the fans wanted. If you think he's returning to score more films in his 100's then you're nuts.
     
    Of course if you're working on a project and want it to succeed (like actors on a press tour) you're going to talk up to it, even if you don't like the product. Obviously he's not going to trash talk the film even if he knows it's not great, because he's too respectful to do that.
  20. Like
    oierem reacted to Datameister in I'm fairly certain the "2nd" ending in Duel Of the Fates was added a later date - later recording session that is   
    It seems nothing was written or recorded for that, yeah. My best guess is that they intended to track in the end credits all along.
     
    @Manakin Skywalker, which music do you think was written for the earlier part of the duel (the part in which they move from the hangar to the big generator room or whatever)?
  21. Like
    oierem reacted to Manakin Skywalker in I'm fairly certain the "2nd" ending in Duel Of the Fates was added a later date - later recording session that is   
    Everything was scored. The entire battle from beginning to end. Most of that material ended up being cut though and replaced with DotF.
    My mistake, I had forgotten that the generator entrance scene was not (that we're aware of).
  22. Like
    oierem reacted to QuartalHarmony in A New Hope vs. The Empire Strikes Back vs. Return of the Jedi   
    Film:

    ANH is the best film because it kickstarted an entire phenomenon from scratch whilst respecting all its influences and entertaining a generation like nothing ever had.
     
    Empire is the best film because it makes you care about the characters and keeps you on the edge of your seat throughout. It also has one of the best twists in cinematic history.
     
    Jedi is the best film because it ties up a trilogy, encompasses redemption, revenge and taking the higher path and shows Luke sacrificing a normal existence for the greater good. It also has a breathtaking space battle.
     
     
    Score:
     
    ANH is the best score because it’s like nothing else that came before and packs in so many original ideas it’s exhilarating.
     
    Empire is the best score because it builds an even higher achievement on previous work that was already extraordinary and has a good claim to be the greatest Romantic film score ever. It also has the best villain’s theme ever, no contest.
     
    Jedi is the best score because it takes the best of what came before (not least a trove of incredible leitmotifs that any other composer would give his/her left nut/tit for), adds to it and weaves it all together in way that still staggers yet sounds effortless.
     
     
    Yeah, I think that about sums it up.
     
    Mark
  23. Like
    oierem got a reaction from His Royal Noelness in J.K. Rowling didn't like JW because the music didn't sound English enough? Fact or fiction?   
    Not true. Durmstrang isn't in Bulgaria.
    But whatever.
  24. Like
    oierem reacted to Holko in J.K. Rowling didn't like JW because the music didn't sound English enough? Fact or fiction?   
    I guess all we know is it's somewhere North, I always just assumed Russia.
  25. Like
    oierem reacted to Smaug The Iron in J.K. Rowling didn't like JW because the music didn't sound English enough? Fact or fiction?   
    That is not true. Viktor Krum is from Bulgaria but Durmstrang is located in Norway or Sweden. Durmstrang is a international school for anyone in Europe. 
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