Docteur Qui

I'm caught up to Ep. 5 now. Until I started hearing about this series last fall, I'd never even realized there was a video game by this name, so I'm watching this show with zero preconceptions.
 
First, this is prestige TV at its near-finest. Terrific character development, amazing production values, and some truly gripping human story to keep your attention. I very much enjoyed watching the man-on-the-ground POV of the world starting to fall apart in Austin because I'm endlessly fascinated by how screen/teleplay writers choose to portray the end of the world. It's done very believably in TLoU. (It's also terrifying to think how quickly everything will go to shit in a shock-event situation like this. I kinda get the prepper mindset.)
 
However, precisely because the producers go to such lengths to portray the decay of civilization as we know it as accurately as possible, I can't help but notice the way some elements stretch credulity. I agree with Jay the total unlikelihood that Bill & Frank's town would have gone undisturbed for 20 years, save one raider attempt. Bill somehow getting the regional gas utility infrastructure up and running so he could get his gas stove going was a little farfetched, to say the least. And the town itself, after 20 years, needed to show a lot more woody vegetation, roaming wildlife, rotting wood structures, eroding pavement, etc. Flags would have turned to bleached gray shreds. And gasoline would simply no longer exist in a usable form (Joel siphoning gas out of a car in that one episode was LOL-ridiculous). But I tend to notice this problem in all movies and TV: when something is supposed to look like it was undisturbed for a decade, the set decorators make it look instead like it was undisturbed for a year or two at best.
 
But here I am nitpicking. The truth is that these things are completely forgivable in the face of such good storytelling. The way the writers play with our sympathies against the KC resistance and then for the resistance was really well done. And no matter how implausible it would have been in real life, Bill & Frank's storyline -- and the semblance of the old way of life they built under such bleak circumstances -- was beautiful.

I feel like the scene is telling us a few deeper things about Tommy and Joel. It's implied that Tommy was encouraged not to contact Joel because it would put Jackson at risk of exposure over the radio. But it's also pretty clear that if Tommy really wanted to contact Joel he would have - he's a headstrong guy. The subtext is that Tommy is ashamed of Joel, of the things they did together, and of the things that Joel forced Tommy to do so they could "survive", and is cutting off contact. We're being invited to see Joel in a new, unflattering light, as a manipulator of Tommy. Whether or not we agree with that is up to us, but it's how Maria and Tommy feel about Joel (supported by Maria's sharp questioning to Ellie about Joel), and it's not entirely untrue based on what we know. All these layers are operating under the surface of this episode and adds a lot of richness to the performances. Great stuff.
 
 
 
I thought for a second that they might've been going down a different path. Then I remembered what show I was watching. You'll forgive me; 99% of adaptations make even dumber changes on a regular basis, I've been conditioned to expect the worst.  

I agree; the Kathleen stuff was the only part of the show which didn’t quite gel for me. Before I even got to Jay’s post, I was thinking that what that character needed to work was an actual flashback for HER, showing her both before and after her brother’s death (*showing* their final meeting rather than just having her *tell* us about it, maybe we even see her watching his execution). That would have made us connect with her emotionally rather than just hating her.
 
Yavar

I don't think it's underrated.
 
But I do agree it's better than a lot of other blockbusters that came out at the time and since. The story and dialogue are garbage, but it's competently made, and Spielberg's worst efforts are miles ahead of most directors' best in the action/adventure genre. I'll never consider it a good movie though, because it should have been much better than it was.

I don't think it's underrated.
 
But I do agree it's better than a lot of other blockbusters that came out at the time and since. The story and dialogue are garbage, but it's competently made, and Spielberg's worst efforts are miles ahead of most directors' best in the action/adventure genre. I'll never consider it a good movie though, because it should have been much better than it was.

I got what they were going for, and the arc itself worked fine. It just felt like a pretty stock-standard story for a series that is known for taking much bigger swings. One thing that did really work for me was seeing Kathleen surrounded by fire, chaos, soldiers and infected; her world literally crumbling around her as a direct result of her obsessive revenge. And even through all that all she wants is to kill Henry. That was a pretty great visual summary of what the episode was going for. But for me it would've landed better if her earlier scene in the childhood bedroom was more compelling.
 
I also want to mention how fantastic the young actor playing Sam was. I was really impressed by his performance, and the dynamic he had with Henry and Ellie was wonderful. It made their eventual fate truly heartbreaking, something that I didn't quite feel from the game even though it played out pretty much the same. The decision to age Sam down and make him a deaf person probably contributed to that.

This thread is miserable.
 
Of course you're going to notice the CGI if you post still-frames and slow-mo gifs. Reminds me of all those dismal Youtube video essay "critics".
 

This thread is miserable.
 
Of course you're going to notice the CGI if you post still-frames and slow-mo gifs. Reminds me of all those dismal Youtube video essay "critics".
 

And people seem to forget Harrison suffered a serious shoulder injury only weeks into production. Of course the filmmakers wouldn't allow him to perform that whip-cracking motion in the shot above. Why take risks that might damage his recovery?
 
At least they've (seemingly) used a real whip-handler with stunt performers; they could've easily gone the CGI whip route for this shot.

This thread is miserable.
 
Of course you're going to notice the CGI if you post still-frames and slow-mo gifs. Reminds me of all those dismal Youtube video essay "critics".
 

This thread is miserable.
 
Of course you're going to notice the CGI if you post still-frames and slow-mo gifs. Reminds me of all those dismal Youtube video essay "critics".
 

This thread is miserable.
 
Of course you're going to notice the CGI if you post still-frames and slow-mo gifs. Reminds me of all those dismal Youtube video essay "critics".
 

Call me crazy, but pretty much all the IJ movies have some garbage special effects in them. I know I'll get roasted for this by the rose-tinted glasses brigade, but it's true. If you're having a good time watching it then it doesn't matter.

Great post @Cerebral Cortex and I couldn't agree more. In a few months I will have a direct line to my childhood, and the moment I fell in love with music in general through JW's scores. That happened to be in the late 90's, which as you mentioned is likely why my excitement is so high. I haven't been this excited for a score since 2015 and the promise of TFA. He knocked that one out of the park and I have such fond memories of falling in love with a sophisticated and incredibly crafted score. I'm sad to say that my heart has hardened around anything Star Wars related since then, due in equal parts to the relentless output of the franchise and the tiresome discourse around it. But that's not the case with Indy, so my inner-child has stirred from his slumber and waits in anticipation for what's to come (before retiring once more as "the discourse" inevitably approaches).

CE4K confirmed!

Great post @Cerebral Cortex and I couldn't agree more. In a few months I will have a direct line to my childhood, and the moment I fell in love with music in general through JW's scores. That happened to be in the late 90's, which as you mentioned is likely why my excitement is so high. I haven't been this excited for a score since 2015 and the promise of TFA. He knocked that one out of the park and I have such fond memories of falling in love with a sophisticated and incredibly crafted score. I'm sad to say that my heart has hardened around anything Star Wars related since then, due in equal parts to the relentless output of the franchise and the tiresome discourse around it. But that's not the case with Indy, so my inner-child has stirred from his slumber and waits in anticipation for what's to come (before retiring once more as "the discourse" inevitably approaches).

I believe what @crumbs is referring to is the snare rhythm here seems to have been subtly revised from the published arrangement (as heard on all recordings prior to last year), from this:
 

 
To something like this:
 

If you can’t read music, the second rhythm has a few more notes and is more “galloping”.

"Indiana Jones 5 and the Path to Accepting Excitement (OST)" / Sequel Score Shaming 
In Honor of Valentine's Day 2023 (February 14th, 2023)
 
A pretentious, inane, and possibly unintentionally ageist thesis drenched in a lust for Internet clout.
 
Written by Cerebral Cortex
Edited by Tim Allen
(who was Sued by Pamela Anderson)
 
Dedicated to BloodBoal
 
Even with the first trailer out, for some reason this movie still felt very surreal and I don't think my mind really accepted it as a thing that was actually happening. So I'd see things for it and my mind just on the most passive level interpreted what it saw and reacted to it, entirely bypassing the part of the thought process where in order for my brain to make that connection it must also accept that this film is also a real thing.

With this TV spot, there's something that has clicked in my brain and this now feels like a very real movie that is coming out in just a few months. Perhaps just by seeing it with more familiar music, it gave a legitimacy to it that I previously didn't associate with those images.
 
But now that I've finally broken through that psychic threshold, I realize now there is a new one I'm not even sure how to process: the fact John Williams, at 91, is scoring another Indiana Jones movie. And with that realization comes, to me and numerous other members, a feeling of immense excitement.
 
Which brings me to the meat of this post. I leave it to the members to judge my sin.
 
I've seen a lot of discourse over the last few years where members on here would get shit on for getting more excited over a Star Wars Episode 24 sequel score than whatever new Williams prestige score was right around the corner. And for a long time I sat there anonymously on the receiving end being unable to succinctly "understand why I looked forward to these Williams blockbuster sequel scores more than a new Williams score for a very insufferable and boring Oscar bait movie" (Cerebral Cortex, 2023). But I so desperately wanted to understand: (A) why do I feel the strong need to justify this opinion and (B) why do I feel this way in the first place emotionally regarding being excited for new Star Wars from Williams versus new anything else. 
 
But with the release of this movie, I finally think I get it. Perhaps it was always obvious, but I only just now realized that the preference in which upcoming Williams score JWFans allowed themselves to be excited by was probably a very largely generational difference. I say that in the kindest words with the intended meaning being that most likely a lot of the people who were excited about those new Star Wars scores saw them not just as blockbuster scores but as emotional extensions to pieces of music that had made a very impressionable mark on people who were younger when those films first came out. It would be exceedingly interesting to be able to plot member age against total excitement of members who were excited about the Star Wars sequel scores more than other new Williams scores. If you could, I bet you would see a lot of peaks of excitement plotted around people who as kids grew up in the late 90s and the late 70s than those who grew up in the mid-80s, mid-60s, mid-2000s, mid-2020s (ah yes, the coveted toddler film score demographic!). That is to say that those who were young enough to find themselves impressed upon by those earlier Williams works were probably more excited about the upcoming sequels to those works they were fond of than members who grew up without that experience.
 
So in the coming week, you might find yourself feeling shameful or disgusted with yourself. You may see opinions shared on this forum regarding this score that cast shade your way or make you feel inadequate in your musical tastes for being excited by it or enjoying it. You may wake up and look in the mirror to find that you don't like the man you see: someone who, when compared to Steven Spielberg's The Fabelmans, is getting much more excited about this upcoming James Mangold's "The Fabled Man"  (phrase copyright © Cerebral Cortex 2023). But getting more excited about new Williams music to a big dumb blockbuster movie isn't wrong. Because, if you're on this forum, there's a very good chance that in the end, it was never even really about the movie; it was about the music.
 
And that's when the surrealness starts to set in for people who grew up able to be impacted by the power of these films. That feeling of love you have for that cherished child thing can't possibly be something one is able to experience now. Because right now you're in your late-20s and the world isn't the same as when all you had to worry about was when the school bus left and there's no way that that thing you loved so fondly back when you were a child and everything was warm and safe can exist now in this life of uncertainty and fear and cold. Because back then was a forever ago. And the person who made that thing you loved can't be the same person who is making this new thing to that thing you loved.
 
 
But it is.
 
 
It's the same fucking guy.
 
And he might be older now (well, we're not quite sure if he is actually aging) but you're definitely older, and your life has complexities you never even considered, worries you never even thought about growing up. "Will my parents get Alzheimer's?" "Will I get Alzheimer's?" "Why is that mole changing color?" "Should I have gotten that 1-year warranty on the toaster?" "Will I get Alzheimer's?"
 
But somehow that same man is here. To show you that that feeling you have for the things you loved is still inside you. To show you that being around to take on the worries of life is worth it if it means you get to experience things like these to get excited over, regardless of how big or how small that thing is. That just because you feel like you're stuck feeling a certain way doesn't mean you lost those other feelings. And that you can still love things you loved when you were little as a grown adult. Because it's always okay to be excited about something you love.
 
So this Valentines' Day, if you find yourself as a fellow JWFanner feeling bad about being excited for Indy 5, don't. You're doing it for love.
 
And that's always a good reason to do something.*
*-following a bunch of legally-binding stipulations
 
 
But anyways, yeah, I think that's why this upcoming score feels so surreal to me lol.
 
And you're welcome for the reminder that Valentine's Day is tomorrow. I just saved your ass!
 
 
EDIT: holy shit i'm high as fuck lol
 

Certainly not saying his recent performances are bad! Just that Indiana Jones is a physically demanding role and Ford gives the character a unique physicality with his performance (albeit slightly stilted in KOCS).
 
He was great in TFA, appropriately playing an older, somewhat burdened interpretation of Han Solo.
 
But clearly he's having a blast playing Indy again. They could easily have gone the grumpy curmudgeon route but he's coming across as more of a protective elder, similar to Han's relationship with Rey in TFA.

Seems they may have still been recording as of Friday, unless audio engineer Ramiro Belgardt has another project very soon after, and also at Sony, which strikes me as not very likely.
 
This is from the Instagram of Mark Graham, head of Joann Kane Music Service:
 
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cois1eFPJx-/
 

 
Note the musical quotation from Close Encounters on the sign.

I got what they were going for, and the arc itself worked fine. It just felt like a pretty stock-standard story for a series that is known for taking much bigger swings. One thing that did really work for me was seeing Kathleen surrounded by fire, chaos, soldiers and infected; her world literally crumbling around her as a direct result of her obsessive revenge. And even through all that all she wants is to kill Henry. That was a pretty great visual summary of what the episode was going for. But for me it would've landed better if her earlier scene in the childhood bedroom was more compelling.
 
I also want to mention how fantastic the young actor playing Sam was. I was really impressed by his performance, and the dynamic he had with Henry and Ellie was wonderful. It made their eventual fate truly heartbreaking, something that I didn't quite feel from the game even though it played out pretty much the same. The decision to age Sam down and make him a deaf person probably contributed to that.

It's great how this show bounces on the same beats that The Walking Dead (TWD) used to do, but then totally defers from them into much more character introspective moments. Yes, Kathleen's death was a bit TWD but there is just much more sadness in all of these moments in TLOU (in five episodes vs 11 seasons of TWD) that resonates. The soap opera dynamics that plagued a lot of TWD are just completely absent - which is fantastic

I thought the same thing after episode 4 but after the latest episode I realized that her character’s arc is adding on to one of the main themes of the show. Where Bill and Frank showed love can endure Kathleen shows that revenge is a double-edged sword (Which is the main theme of Part II). Kathleen’s revenge allowed her to overthrow FEDRA but also ended up leading to her own downfall and supposedly the destruction of what’s left of Kansas City.

They're called bloaters. They're the final stage of cordyceps infection, after clicker. If the host survives long enough it becomes completely covered in hardened fungal plates making them very difficult to kill. In the game they also have sacs on their bodies that they rip off and throw at people which explode with spores on impact. But as the spores aren't in the show I guess they don't do that here.
 
Totally agree on the child clicker. It was nightmarish - reminded me a lot of the zombie children in GOT's "Hardhome". The way it contorted over the car seats was chilling.
 
Good episode. In many ways it felt more like a part 2 to last week's episode, meaning that it was mostly payoff. For the most part I was satisfied with it, and it had some great game adaptations like the abandoned colony in the tunnels, and Joel with the sniper rifle out the window. I wonder if they filmed and cut out the discovery of the childrens' bodies in the tunnels because it's just so damned grim, or perhaps they wanted to imply a worse fate for the kids by showing us the child clicker. 
 
The final few scenes with Sam were truly heartbreaking. I appreciated the bait-and-switch with Ellie's "medicine blood", for a second I thought they really were going to go there with that (which I would've hated), but it was subverted immediately.