Indiana Jones: The Soundtracks Collection (official Thread)

[indy4 155]

I think you forgot to post the picture, Colin.

[Henry B 50]

Anyone else not hearing the pitch deviation/warble in "Return to the Village"?

There's no "warble," really. The pitch seems to gradually slide throughout the track; it's too subtle to hear at any one point. While these variations are probably within only a tenth or so of a semitone, it's a fact that the entire track is slow by about a quarter semitone that really damages it. Speeding it up definitely helps.

Unfortunately, while speeding a track up is no problem, slowing it down degrades the quality, so the tracks that are too fast (many of them) can't be entirely fixed.

[King Mark 3,631]

Anyone else not hearing the pitch deviation/warble in "Return to the Village"?

There's no "warble," really. The pitch seems to gradually slide throughout the track; it's too subtle to hear at any one point. While these variations are probably within only a tenth or so of a semitone, it's a fact that the entire track is slow by about a quarter semitone that really damages it. Speeding it up definitely helps.

so,how exactly did you find that out?

[Delorean90 42]

Worst case scenario, though, with how much better quality these are, I doubt that they would become terrible by that adjustment. I could be wrong, but I'm not too concerned about it.

Henry, do you plan to have pitch adjustment quantities on the resource thread?

[King Mark 3,631]

Why would you even want to attempt that???

And while pointing out those barely perceptible sound quality issues , a lot of you still want to incorporate dreadful DVD rear channel rips and old bootleg cues into the set. Unbelievable

[Henry B 50]

Henry, do you plan to have pitch adjustment quantities on the resource thread?

No. Two things:

1. I can correct statically incorrect pitch, but not wandering pitch. I'm not a professional audio engineer.

2. Slowing down material with your garden variety editing software degrades quality. I tried correcting "Anything Goes" today. It's only two seconds too fast, but scaling the speed down even by that little introduced subtle problems. It gets slightly choppy sounding. Now, correcting a really out of tune track like "Map Room" seriously diminishes quality. It basically makes the DCC version sound clearer. Too bad about the low choir mix... hey, maybe I'll use the original album track for "Map Room." It's out of tune, but it's slow, so correcting it will be no problem.

Anyone else not hearing the pitch deviation/warble in "Return to the Village"?

There's no "warble," really. The pitch seems to gradually slide throughout the track; it's too subtle to hear at any one point. While these variations are probably within only a tenth or so of a semitone, it's a fact that the entire track is slow by about a quarter semitone that really damages it. Speeding it up definitely helps.

so,how exactly did you find that out?

I compared it to the end credits track on disc 2 (which isn't perfectly tuned, but it's close) and I played MIDI notes over the piece. The problem was very clear.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Wait a second ... the TENTH of a SEMI-tone?

This has to be the geekiest complaint in the history of this board.

[Desplat13 1]

I think you forgot to post the picture, Colin.

It is the main release picture. The picture on this wonderful site.

It looks like a separate booklet, which I did not get. Did I miss something?

[artyjeffrey 20]

THE SET HAS ARRIVED IN THE ARMPIT OF CALIFORNIA KNOWN AS MY HOMETOWN!!!! Yes!!

Colin-- I think you might be looking at the sleeve-thing for the interview disc. I too at first thought it was a booklet in that pic.

[indy4 155]

I think you forgot to post the picture, Colin.

It is the main release picture. The picture on this wonderful site.

It looks like a separate booklet, which I did not get. Did I miss something?

It's the photo booklet. There's a page of notes by Laurent, and then 25 pages of pictures from the 4 films.

It's nothing fantastic, but if I would get it if I were you.

Just checked on iTunes...I have 9 hours of Indiana Jones music.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Just checked on iTunes...I have 9 hours of Indiana Jones music.

I've got 6 hours. I've got 13.2 hours of Star Wars though.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

THE SET HAS ARRIVED IN THE ARMPIT OF CALIFORNIA KNOWN AS MY HOMETOWN!!!! Yes!!

Colin-- I think you might be looking at the sleeve-thing for the interview disc. I too at first thought it was a booklet in that pic.

So, artyjeffery, have you looked at the "Other Topics" Section in this Board yet?

[indy4 155]

Just checked on iTunes...I have 9 hours of Indiana Jones music.

I've got 6 hours. I've got 13.2 hours of Star Wars though.

I have 14.8 hours of Star Wars.

[Desplat13 1]

I think you forgot to post the picture, Colin.

It is the main release picture. The picture on this wonderful site.

It looks like a separate booklet, which I did not get. Did I miss something?

It's the photo booklet. There's a page of notes by Laurent, and then 25 pages of pictures from the 4 films.

It's nothing fantastic, but if I would get it if I were you.

Just checked on iTunes...I have 9 hours of Indiana Jones music.

Odd. That didn't come with mine. All I have are four digipacks, one sleeve, one sheet of paper with track titles from all cds, and a case. A case which, I might add, doesn't look like it has any extra room.

[indy4 155]

Hmmm, that's very odd. Oh, it's a very tight fit, but the sleeve is a bit thinner than Disc 5.

[John Crichton 4]

Odd. That didn't come with mine. All I have are four digipacks, one sleeve, one sheet of paper with track titles from all cds, and a case. A case which, I might add, doesn't look like it has any extra room.

They did cram it all in, didn't they? I don't think I could fit a sheet of paper in there.

[Jay 37,368]

EDIT: My 100th post in this thread!

How did you know that?

[indy4 155]

EDIT: My 100th post in this thread!

How did you know that?

To the right of the thread title on the MB it says the amount of replies a topic has recieved. Click that number, and it tells you who posted how many times in the thread.

You've posted 252 times in this thread.

[Jay 37,368]

Just wanted to mention that some people had asked in this thread which cues where meant to be edited together into continuous tracks... I just posted that information to the web site, check it out

http://www.indianajonesmusic.com/

[John Crichton 4]

To the right of the thread title on the MB it says the amount of replies a topic has recieved. Click that number, and it tells you who posted how many times in the thread.

Holy crap, I never realized that! There goes the next two hours of my life. And I'm trying to finish up ToD too.

[Jay 37,368]

To the right of the thread title on the MB it says the amount of replies a topic has recieved. Click that number, and it tells you who posted how many times in the thread.

You've posted 252 times in this thread.

wow

[indy4 155]

To the right of the thread title on the MB it says the amount of replies a topic has recieved. Click that number, and it tells you who posted how many times in the thread.

Holy crap, I never realized that! There goes the next two hours of my life.

And you people voted him President...

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Did we ever say anything about impeachment?

[pathollywood 0]

Shame, shame, shame lol.

[Jamesyboy 3]

Hey all!

Here is a back cover that is currently in process for Temple of Doom for a chrono-order 2cd set with some added stuff thrown. I'm not an editor and don't plan on combining cues...I'm quite happy with the way the music is presented. I will be doing a consistent look for the other 2 as well.

Opinions?

James

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Is it bad that I have more stubble than Harrison Ford?

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

I tried editing "British Relief" with "Return to the Village". At first I changed the pitch of the latter (which was noticeably different from the album track upon comparison), but then the edit sounded wrong. Then I tried without changing the pitch, and it sounds good. I'm confused.

[Henry B 50]

Maybe "British Relief" is off in pitch too... like just about every track from ToD.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Is it bad that I have more stubble than Harrison Ford?

You sure you're fifteen?

[Delorean90 42]

Are you sure? On comparison with the film, the tracks I was listening to sounded correct.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Is it bad that I have more stubble than Harrison Ford?

You sure you're fifteen?

Is that a "yes"?

[Henry B 50]

Are you sure? On comparison with the film, the tracks I was listening to sounded correct.

"Anything Goes" is two or three seconds fast. "The Sword Trick" is a bit slow. I'll check out some more tracks later.

[fommes 153]

Henry, it would be great if you did include approximate pitch changes in your editing guide, for the ones you're checking yourself.

I'm a victim of R2, so I can't just listen to the DVD to hear which the correct pitch is. Would save a lot of trouble.

Also, one thing I don't understand is, you're saying that it seriously diminishes the quality when lowering the pitch (slowing down the cues). And I know this must be true, but I've done so more than once (being in R2 and all), and I've never noticed the kind of serious drop you're talking about myself. (I'm using either GoldWave or Audacity, I presume you do too (or a better program).) I may well be (s)tone-deaf.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I may well be (s)tone-deaf.

I think that's my problem. I can appreciate those with a more trained ear get frustrated by pitch issues, but I can't hear them myself, so I'm not worried about it.

[Maxxie 1]

Jason & King Mark, I've done a quick upload of the End Credits cue I was mentioning yesterday (only 30 secs or so). Hopefully now you'll understand what I'm saying!

Listen to the difference at around 0:18...............

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=75MIJAFE

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Everytime I hear people talking about pitch issues and the dreaded PAL speed-up now, I can't help envisioning the music in the style of Yakety Sax from Benny Hill.

[King Mark 3,631]

the thing it,it isn't . If a cue is stretched by 3 seconds you won't hear it ,no matter if you can prove the pitch is off by making scientific comparisons in an editor by overlaying music . This is only adding a negative psychological factor for those who read this thread and who never noticed anything and now want to adjust the cues no matter what (fommes,kendal ozzel Delorean90...) .That kind of tinkering is going to make the music REALLY sound bad.

Raiders is almost ruined for me because I keep wanting to hear the pitch thing. I don't ,but I know it's there so now it annoys me. Please don't ruin the amazing ToD now.

I mean if some of you are wanna-be record producers/ composers/sound engineers/editors out to prove you could have produced a better set ..please lay off and stop ruining it for everyone.

I tried editing "British Relief" with "Return to the Village". At first I changed the pitch of the latter (which was noticeably different from the album track upon comparison), but then the edit sounded wrong. Then I tried without changing the pitch, and it sounds good. huh.gif I'm confused.

it means your edit is not good. The only way you could hear a pitch difference is to edit one segment of the Raiders March into another segment of the Raiders March directly ...not 2 cues that have very different types of music and even have a fade out in between them

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

Maybe "British Relief" is off in pitch too... like just about every track from ToD.

Upon further inspection, it seems that the problem with those two TOD tracks isn't just pitch—it's pitch as a result of speed. I played around a bit and found that "Return to the Village" needs to be increased by about 1.5 percent to match the identical portion "End Credits" (from the Concord album, which still seems to be correct).

So it seems that while Raiders is too fast, Temple of Doom is too slow. (At least two tracks of it, anyway.)

Whine accordingly.

[King Mark 3,631]

yet,you don't have any problems adding rear channel DVD rips into the mix...

[fommes 153]

the thing it,it isn't . If a cue is stretched by 3 seconds you won't hear it ,no matter if you can prove the pitch is off by making scientific comparisons in an editor . This is only adding a negative psychological factor for those who read this thread and who never noticed anything and now want to adjust the cues no matter what (fommes,kendal ozzel Delorean90...) .That kind of tinkering is going to make the music REALLY sound bad.

Well, I don't have this set yet, so nothing's ruined, and I don't know if I'll hear it or not. But it's certainly very possible I'll hear it in some cases (I may have exaggerated my being stone-deaf ), since it's the Williams music I'm most familiar with. It also depends how long the cue is to evaluate the effects of a 3-second stretch, by the way.

Now, what I'm going to do is:

- adjust the pitch of the tracks where I hear it

- adjust the pitch of the tracks that need editing, like British Relief, Return to the Village. (especially those, since they have to be combined with tracks that are correct in pitch.)

That's also why I'd like you guys to post more of your findings.

Can we please stop arguing and bickering about all this? This set has certain deficiencies (some bad, some less bad), that's a given - but it has at the same time a lot of merits as well. Some will find one deficiency somewhat less bad than others, and vice versa. I propose we'll leave it at that.

What we now got to do is make the best of it, and some will do that by more editing, and some just by importing it into iTunes. Let's be subjective about the music itself, and let's just be objective about the deficiencies and how to improve them.

We need the info, people!

Upon further inspection, it seems that the problem with those two TOD tracks isn't just pitch—it's pitch as a result of speed. I played around a bit and found that "Return to the Village" needs to be increased by about 1.5 percent to match the identical portion "End Credits" (from the Concord album, which still seems to be correct).

Pitch is always a combination tone + speed, in my editing programs.

How did you handle British Relief?

[Maxxie 1]

Raiders is almost ruined for me because I keep wanting to hear the pitch thing. I don't ,but I know it's there so now it annoys me. Please don't ruin the amazing ToD now.

I mean if some of you are wanna-be record producers/ composers/sound engineers/editors out to prove you could have produced a better set ..please lay off and stop ruining it for everyone.

I hope that isn't aimed at me. I've never once mentioned pitch. My comments were specifically to do with the two different endings. I just wanted everyone else's opinion.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

Sorry, I'd opened the thread before KM's post.

the thing it,it isn't . If a cue is stretched by 3 seconds you won't hear it ,no matter if you can prove the pitch is off by making scientific comparisons in an editor . This is only adding a negative psychological factor for those who read this thread and who never noticed anything and now want to adjust the cues no matter what (fommes,kendal ozzel Delorean90...) .That kind of tinkering is going to make the music REALLY sound bad.

Raiders is almost ruined for me because I keep wanting to hear the pitch thing. I don't ,but I know it's there so now it annoys me. Please don't ruin the amazing ToD now.

I mean if some of you are wanna-be record producers/ composers/sound engineers/editors out to prove you could have produced a better set ..please lay off and stop ruining it for everyone.

I tried editing "British Relief" with "Return to the Village". At first I changed the pitch of the latter (which was noticeably different from the album track upon comparison), but then the edit sounded wrong. Then I tried without changing the pitch, and it sounds good. huh.gif I'm confused.

it means your edit is not good

No, I think I just figured it out. Try it for yourself. The good news is that if you speed up the respective tracks, they should still sound okay.

I don't want to get too much into the bickering, but I think both sides of this thing have gone too far. Yes, there are problems, but I don't think they are anywhere near so bad that they should prevent someone from enjoying this set and being grateful for its release. On the other hand, there are problems, and you can deny it and pooh-pooh it all you want, but they're still there. If you can't hear them or they aren't enough to bother you, God bless you. Enjoy it. But that doesn't mean they don't exist, and it doesn't mean people shouldn't discuss them. We all love this music, and some people show that love by obsessing over every detail and trying to ensure that it is heard properly.

I'm very happy with my box set. I'm extremely thankful for its release. There are some problems, though. Some aren't big enough to bother me. Some are, though, and if they are fixable, I'm gonna try to fix them

[King Mark 3,631]

No ,it has nothing to do with you Maxxie

BTW that "big" statement of the Raiders march is in the OST version,just a bit later than the clip you provided (5.21 in the original Finale an End Credit)

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

Er, per fommes. (This thing always moves too fast!)

Pitch is always a combination tone + speed, in my editing programs.

How did you handle British Relief?

In Audacity, there's "Change pitch" and "Change speed". I increased the speed on "Return to the Village" until it matched "End Credits". Then, I changed the speed on "British Relief" the same, and the transition into "Return to the Village" sounds fine.

Keep in mind 1.5% is just an estimate, but it seemed about right for that 30 second portion.

[fommes 153]

Ok, thanks very much. I'll look into it myself once it gets here; but keep in mind that it might be the pitch (including the tone), not just the speed - at least, that's what Henry reported.

So if you make the edit into Finale and End Credits, you might run into 'tone' trouble.

[King Mark 3,631]

No, I think I just figured it out. Try it for yourself. The good news is that if you speed up the respective tracks, they should still sound okay.

I don't want to get too much into the bickering, but I think both sides of this thing have gone too far. Yes, there are problems, but I don't think they are anywhere near so bad that they should prevent someone from enjoying this set and being grateful for its release. On the other hand, there are problems, and you can deny it and pooh-pooh it all you want, but they're still there. If you can't hear them or they aren't enough to bother you, God bless you. Enjoy it. But that doesn't mean they don't exist, and it doesn't mean people shouldn't discuss them. We all love this music, and some people show that love by obsessing over every detail and trying to ensure that it is heard properly.

I'm very happy with my box set. I'm extremely thankful for its release. There are some problems, though. Some aren't big enough to bother me. Some are, though, and if they are fixable, I'm gonna try to fix them

I've seen the movie in 1984 and countless times since then

I've had the OST since 1984 ,on cassette at last then c.d.

I've had various DVD rips bootlegs for the past 10 years.

And I' m not DEAF and know Williams score pretty well.

So please don't tell me this set has NOTICEABLE pitch/speed problems you can hear without doing fancy comparisons in an editor.

OK,for editing British Relief into Return to the Village ,the music goes from the quiet "Indy is Alive" bit to a fade out into the Raiders March...please EXPLAIN to me how you can detect speed differences by ear alone

[DigitalfreakNYC 59]

I've seen the movie in 1984 and countless times since then

I've had the OST since 1984 ,on cassette at last then c.d.

I've had various DVD rips bootlegs for the past 10 years.

And I' m not DEAF and know Williams score pretty well.

So please don't tell me this set has NOTICEABLE pitch/speed problems you can hear without doing fancy comparisons in an editor.

I don't need an editor. I can HEAR it. So yes, I'm telling you.

Just becuase YOU can't hear it, doesn't mean it's not there.

And FYI, I AM a producer.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

So please don't tell me this set has NOTICEABLE pitch/speed problems you can hear without doing fancy comparisons in an editor.

Put the DVD in your DVD player. Put the CD in your CD player. Play "Return to the Village" so that the march starts at the same time as in the film. No software required. You'll probably notice the different pitch, but even if you don't, you'll certainly notice the difference speed.

You can say it's nowhere near as bad as PAL speed up... but it is 37.5% as bad. If you can't hear it or it doesn't bother you, then you have nothing to worry about. But it is still there.

OK,for editing British Relief into Return to the Village ,the music goes from the quiet "Indy is Alive" bit to a fade out into the Raiders March...please EXPLAIN to me how you can detect speed differences by ear alone

From the two tracks alone, no, I couldn't notice the speed was off. But I could tell the pitch, and if the pitch is lower, it's usually means it's too slow.

[King Mark 3,631]

Put the DVD in your DVD player. Put the CD in your CD player. Play "Return to the Village" so that the march starts at the same time as in the film. No software required. You'll probably notice the different pitch, but even if you don't, you'll certainly notice the difference speed.

I'm sure I would .But that was my point ..why would I even want to do that???

[DigitalfreakNYC 59]

Put the DVD in your DVD player. Put the CD in your CD player. Play "Return to the Village" so that the march starts at the same time as in the film. No software required. You'll probably notice the different pitch, but even if you don't, you'll certainly notice the difference speed.

I'm sure I would .But that was my point ..why would I even want to do that???

Oh....I dunno.

Maybe to educate yourself?