Superman II

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Every few days I will post a thread on a random score from my collection that we can discuss and rate. I made a playlist on my computer with one track of each score I've got, so by using the random play option, I'll be able to post a truly random score each time. Hopefully this will allow us to discuss some scores that would otherwise never be discussed. Also we can record the rating so that we can create a full list of the ratings given to scores by JWFan.com.

This is a continuation of a series of polls I started before I left. One of the last scores I posted was ToD, but now that we actually have an expanded version, I post it again, just to get things going again and see if anybody's opinion on the score has changed. Stand by for new entries in the score rating polls shortly.

Today's score is Superman II by Ken Thorne. Are you familiar with it? What do you like about it? What don't you like about it? How do do you think it works in the film? What are your favourite tracks?

So far JWFan has rated:

See Soundtrack Ratings by JWFan.com.

This web page contains the ratings from all my previous polls as well as those of Blumenkohl's.

Final ratings are converted to a 1-10 rating for both rating systems so that they can be compared.

[A24 4,333]

Totally hate it! Where was the zero stars option?

[MissPadmé 17]

2 stars.

Why listen to Superman 2 when I can listen to Superman i or IV?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Ken Thorne's efforts are completely fine to me. He had a better understanding of where to position the Superman theme than John Ottman.

4 stars.

[Hitch 57]

Totally hate it! Where was the zero stars option?

I concur. Totally, totally awful.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

yay thanks for the cover publicity

I would give this 5 stars...since all material is from Superman the movie

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Like the opening title with the nice performance of the Krypton theme, not much else.

[Ollie 1,059]

I'm going to give this 4.5 stars. Thorne did an outstanding job with Williams' music compared to others who have had similar opportunities.

I won't blame him for the smaller orchestra as it was a problem that was out of his hands.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Not familiar.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I'm going to give this 4.5 stars. Thorne did an outstanding job with Williams' music compared to others who have had similar opportunities.

I won't blame him for the smaller orchestra as it was a problem that was out of his hands.

Really, If JPIII had been a cut and paste Job like that everyone would have critisized it alot more than now.

Inst CoS critisized for that? And Doyle and hopper praised for not taking that route?

[Williamsfan301 11]

I'm going to give this 4.5 stars. Thorne did an outstanding job with Williams' music compared to others who have had similar opportunities.

I won't blame him for the smaller orchestra as it was a problem that was out of his hands.

Lots of that movie was ripped out of the right people's hands once Donner left. 2 stars.

That reminds me:

Peter Griffin: "What was the deal with the sulifane S Superman ripped off his chest in Superman II?"

[Ollie 1,059]

I'm going to give this 4.5 stars. Thorne did an outstanding job with Williams' music compared to others who have had similar opportunities.

I won't blame him for the smaller orchestra as it was a problem that was out of his hands.

Really, If JPIII had been a cut and paste Job like that everyone would have critisized it alot more than now.

Inst CoS critisized for that? And Doyle and hopper praised for not taking that route?

Of course you start nitpicking without realizing the situation behind Superman II.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I'm going to give this 4.5 stars. Thorne did an outstanding job with Williams' music compared to others who have had similar opportunities.

I won't blame him for the smaller orchestra as it was a problem that was out of his hands.

Really, If JPIII had been a cut and paste Job like that everyone would have critisized it alot more than now.

Inst CoS critisized for that? And Doyle and hopper praised for not taking that route?

you're so damned clueless, I honestly beleive that more than half of your posts are strictly to nitpick any post by Neil, Mark, or myself.

[King Mark 3,631]

He had a better understanding of where to position the Superman theme than John Ottman.

Well,that's not too difficult

3 stars .His versions of the Main/End Titles are good . The rest your better off with Superman The Movie

[MrScratch 294]

3 stars, it's very good for what is. When I got the Blue Box, I actually listened to this more than I thought I would. As a rerecording of existing material, it is listenable. As a support to the onscreen action, it is excellent. It is just not original, but we all know that was out of Thorne's hands.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree with Satan!

as always.....

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I'm going to give this 4.5 stars. Thorne did an outstanding job with Williams' music compared to others who have had similar opportunities.

I won't blame him for the smaller orchestra as it was a problem that was out of his hands.

Really, If JPIII had been a cut and paste Job like that everyone would have critisized it alot more than now.

Inst CoS critisized for that? And Doyle and hopper praised for not taking that route?

you're so damned clueless, I honestly beleive that more than half of your posts are strictly to nitpick any post by Neil, Mark, or myself.

Ok, sorry.

Nevertheless, I still think you all three resort to this kind comments when I say something you cant rebate, or ignore them completely.

I think i'll have to ignore your posts (even though i will be missing some good opinions) in order to not nitpick. I hope you change the 'holy word' kind of posts because those are very hard to let pass by.

I still want to know what the special situation of Superman II was, appart from the sacking of the director, the resigning of Williams and the discontent of the cast with the new director, the fact that most of the footage was already done, as to make or need a soundtrack almost entirely consistant of arrangements of previous material from the previous movie.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

A very short scoring schedule.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

A very short scoring schedule.

The movie release was postponed IRRC.

If that was so late in the game Williams should have been started composing music?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nevertheless by the time Thorne was writing the score, it was very late in the game. Unusually for a big effects film, he had the finished film available.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Nevertheless by the time Thorne was writing the score, it was very late in the game. Unusually for a big effects film, he had the finished film available.

Was is that short? Other composers get full original scores in short time, and not always of the remote control kind.

[Ollie 1,059]

A very short scoring schedule.

The movie release was postponed IRRC.

If that was so late in the game Williams should have been started composing music?

Williams had a very busy schedule at the time, which probably played a factor.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Also the Superman score was a resounding success and the producers and director dicided that if they could not have Williams do a new one, they'd stick close to the first score.

[Lurker 5]

I love this score. I don't know if I could assign a number value to it, but it's really well done and enjoyable. Ken Thorne is a very talented musician and his ability to get pre-exisiting music to work as well as it does speaks volumes about his ability.

Neil

[JoeinAR 1,949]

my feeling exactly Neil before Zod.

I loved the laser etching on the original album. that was new to all of us.

[Ollie 1,059]

Yes that was rather neat.

My Superman II album got as much play as Superman did. It was the same yet it was different.

[Trent B 337]

It's funny how you all praise Thorne on Superman II but tear apart and bitch at Ottman's score for Superman Returns, even though Ottman did reuse the themes but he had a more of an original score than Thorne did for Superman II.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ottman's score simply is not that interesting.

[Trent B 337]

I find it more interesting and enjoyable then Superman II.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I find it to be extremely generic, and Ottman's music and Williams' themes fit poorly together.

[Ollie 1,059]

It's funny how you all praise Thorne on Superman II but tear apart and bitch at Ottman's score for Superman Returns, even though Ottman did reuse the themes but he had a more of an original score than Thorne did for Superman II.

I'd hardly call Ottman's score original. There's temp track love all over the place. And just because it's original doesn't make it better.

I think the FSM's podcast on SR sums up Ottman's score.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I am not familiar with the score, though I hope to be sometime in the future.

[Lurker 5]

It's funny how you all praise Thorne on Superman II but tear apart and bitch at Ottman's score for Superman Returns, even though Ottman did reuse the themes but he had a more of an original score than Thorne did for Superman II.

Thorne > Ottman

Neil

[JoeinAR 1,949]

It's funny how you all praise Thorne on Superman II but tear apart and bitch at Ottman's score for Superman Returns, even though Ottman did reuse the themes but he had a more of an original score than Thorne did for Superman II.

but the non Williams parts are so bland and uninteresting.

Oh well I suppose you might think Ottman is a better composer.

I think he's a better editor than film composer.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I quite liked RETURNS. I dug the new themes he did, and it's a fun listen, if never reaching amazing heights. I'm not sure it's a valid comparison though, as Thorne was forced to A: work with almost 100% pre-existing material, or B: fight for soundtrack time with Georgio Moroder. I'm not sure which is worse.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I quite liked RETURNS. I dug the new themes he did, and it's a fun listen, if never reaching amazing heights. I'm not sure it's a valid comparison though, as Thorne was forced to A: work with almost 100% pre-existing material, or B: fight for soundtrack time with Georgio Moroder. I'm not sure which is worse.

Oh don't say that name, I'm getting verklempt!!!

[Ollie 1,059]

B: fight for soundtrack time with Georgio Moroder. I'm not sure which is worse.

Actually that was for Superman III

[Charlie Brigden 7]

B: fight for soundtrack time with Georgio Moroder. I'm not sure which is worse.

Actually that was for Superman III

I know, I just thought I'd throw it in. Any joke at M*****r's (that's for Joe) expense is worth it!

[Williamsfan301 11]

Also the Superman score was a resounding success and the producers and director dicided that if they could not have Williams do a new one, they'd stick close to the first score.

Alot of it, as I recall, had to do with Williams not wanting to get involved in the whole "Donner vs. the Salkinds" fiasco.

[John Crichton 4]

Superman Returns is a total snoozefest that only wakes me up when I hear one of Williams' classic themes being butchered.

[artyjeffrey 20]

Also the Superman score was a resounding success and the producers and director dicided that if they could not have Williams do a new one, they'd stick close to the first score.

Alot of it, as I recall, had to do with Williams not wanting to get involved in the whole "Donner vs. the Salkinds" fiasco.

I quote from Here, There and Everywhere: My Life Recording the Music of The Beatles, by Geoff Emerick regarding a recording session for A Hard Day's Night:

"From the band's perspective, the session was going smoothly, but there was a storm raging behind the scenes that they were blissfully unaware of. Usually, the only people in the control room while the band played in the studio down below were George Martin, Norman Smith, and whoever was assigned to be the assistant engineer-- myself, Richard Langham, or occasionally one of the other EMI staff. On this morning, however, we were joined by the film's director, Dick Lester, and his presence was definitely not appreciated.

"Even with my limited experience, it appeared to me that Lester was acting inappropiately; he was constantly locking horns with George Martin and butting in where he didn't belong. For some reason, he seemed to think that because the song was being recorded for his film, that gave him the right to provide musical input and direction, and that was simply not the way things were done. George was being his usual polite self, but I could see that he was getting increasingly irritated. In particluar, Dick kept insisting that something "blockbuster" was needed for the opening of the film-- hence John and George's crashing guitar chord that heralds the first notes of the song. But that wasn't enough for Dick, who kept making one odd suggestion after another ("Tell them I need it more cinematic," he shouted to George Martin at one point).

"Despite the controversy in the control room, that morning was tremendously productive. After the ninth take-- which was at a significantly faster tempo than previous ones-- Lennon announced that he was satisfied, and George Martin concurred. Dick Lester, not surprisingly, called for yet another run-through, but George Martin was smart enough to keep him well away from the talkback microphone and pretended not to hear his dissent."

Lester was doing this with THE BEATLES, the biggest band ever, in their prime. Can you imagine what nonsense he would've pulled with John Williams?

[Williamsfan301 11]

Oh, man I can only imagine. That whole production of Superman I and II was just a nightmare.

What's also ironic is that JW was not Donner's first choice for composer. He originally wanted Goldsmith, who was unavailable at the time. Imagine how different things would have been had it been JG instead of JW.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

That would have been awesome.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

That would have been awesome.

Like Supergirl

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No, Goldsmith already moved into a different style then.

[crocodile 8,012]

2 stars. Fun to listen? Maybe. But, honestly, all this "score" can ever be is a inferior re-recording of the original. It is cheap way of doing things, completely uncreative and lazy. It doesn't have any merits of its own, as a piece of music. Sorry, but I can't give it more.

Karol

[Jay 37,364]

I guess I'll give it 3 stars. I like Superman III more

[Naïve Old Fart 9,528]

Totally hate it! Where was the zero stars option?

I concur. Totally, totally awful.

I'm with these guys. Since very little is actually Thorne's music ("Honneymoon Hotel"? I'd rather listen to "Lex's Luau") I would give it a big fat zero. Why don't you ask people to rate the score to the Richard Donner cut? You might get a very different response... I've no idea who decided to place what music where in "Superman II" (John Victor Smith, perhaps?) but they should be shot!

[pixie_twinkle 48]

2 stars from me. It's just a sub-standard re-hash of Superman: The Movie. I doubt I'll listen to it again. Superman 3 on the other hand has some nice original compositions from Ken Thorne, elevating that particular score to 3 stars.

[Trent B 337]

I find myself listening to Superman Returns more than the other Superman scores.