publicist 4,643 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Stefancos said: Holst and Orff. Served a lot of composers well. A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Sure, but its very very blatant in that score though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Miles better than what Edelman offered in the rewrites. While 'Legend' was an early indication how composers were regularly treated from the 90's onwards, 'Robin Hood' and 'Last of the Mohicans' are prime examples for the ill consideration and indecision towards scores. Kamen was forced to produce 2 hours of music in a few days, Jones rewrote and rewrote before being unceremoniously dumped (though there wasn't enough time to replace the score whole). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 hours ago, Woj said: Is Robin Hood really worth the hype? I don't think I've listened to it more than three times in my life in its entirety. I just skip from the main titles to the Bryan Adams song. Surely the Bryan Adams song is also something you’d want to skip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Why? It was co-written by the composer and contains one of the scores themes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 That doesn’t mean it’s good though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 It's a good rock anthem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I always have found the three Kamen/Adams tunes from Robin Hood, Don Juan DeMarco and The Three Musketeers to be to the detriment of their respective scores. JWMike and Bilbo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I don't think they mesh well with the score itself for me. I mean their adaptations always feel like intrusion of a different kind of sensibility into the score proper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 They arent supposed to mesh with the score proper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Bilbo said: Surely the Bryan Adams song is also something you’d want to skip? No. And don't call me Shirley. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,019 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Stefancos said: They arent supposed to mesh with the score proper. I think he means themes within underscore, not songs themselves. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2018 3 hours ago, publicist said: Miles better than what Edelman offered in the rewrites. While 'Legend' was an early indication how composers were regularly treated from the 90's onwards, 'Robin Hood' and 'Last of the Mohicans' are prime examples for the ill consideration and indecision towards scores. Kamen was forced to produce 2 hours of music in a few days, Jones rewrote and rewrote before being unceremoniously dumped (though there wasn't enough time to replace the score whole). Jones fell victim of Michael Mann's typical micromanaging when it comes to deal with music and composers, so I guess it's not much a matter of what he wrote. Kamen had an insanely tight schedule for Robin Hood, but imho he delivered such a good score given the circumstances. Yes, he had a lot of help from a large group of orchestrators (including top names like Bill Ross), but he was rightfully proud of the end result. He bought from his own pocket a full ad page on Variety to thank the full list of orchestrators. On a JW-related note, Kamen was invited by JW to guest conduct the Boston Pops in 1992, where he performed a specially prepared concert suite of Robin Hood among other things. Kamen also conducted Williams' Imperial March as an encore and it was a thrilling performance by all accounts. Jurassic Shark, publicist, Amer and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 18 minutes ago, crocodile said: I think he means themes within underscore, not songs themselves. Karol Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,019 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I find this happens a lot whenever there is a pop song version in almost any score. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 8 hours ago, Woj said: Is Robin Hood really worth the hype? I don't think I've listened to it more than three times in my life in its entirety. I just skip from the main titles to the Bryan Adams song. Yes, the album was not a good selection of highlights from the entire score. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 It's an outstanding score! Amer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 It's been on my top 10 most wanted list forever jwalk713 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Same here. There's some good unreleased stuff. Amer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 What do you get from that? Apart from the overture it's really mediocre, even by 1991 standards (which were significantly lower than, say, Korngold). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 58 minutes ago, publicist said: What do you get from that? More action music! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Another spreadsheet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I doubt it will be very confusing what is a new track and what was a track from the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 16 minutes ago, publicist said: Another spreadsheet? Can’t have enough spreadsheets. I know there’s quite a bit of music missing from the final two major set pieces, on the original album both appear to be combined into The Abduction and Final Battle Track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, publicist said: What do you get from that? Apart from the overture it's really mediocre, even by 1991 standards (which were significantly lower than, say, Korngold). I wouldn't be so harsh. The writing is very solid and competent, both in the action department and in the more lyrical passages. The quieter moments have some nice troubadour-like ornaments that I particularly like (apparently, Kamen wanted to do the whole score just on period instruments, but the filmmakers wanted a more traditional approach). Some nice oboe and flute solos in some sequences as well. Kamen wrote in a very "busy" fashion, with lots of notes, perhaps sometimes he went a tad too far in terms of thickness during some accompaniment scoring (nowadays this kind of writing would very much be jettisoned for being "too distracting"), but I sincerely prefer such a balls-to-the-wall approach than most of anemic atmospheric scoring that became the rule a few years later. jwalk713 and Ollie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 47 minutes ago, publicist said: Another spreadsheet? Jay excels at spreadsheets. Ollie and publicist 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, TownerFan said: Kamen wrote in a very "busy" fashion, with lots of notes, perhaps sometimes he went a tad too far in terms of thickness during some accompaniment scoring (nowadays this kind of writing would very much be jettisoned for being "too distracting"), It may be that kind of Tiomkin-like approach that turns me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 It's understandable. A few nights ago I caught 101 Dalmatians live action remake on TV and the music in that movie is so loud and busy to the point of becoming insufferable. But it's surely very well-written music, so it might be better to listen to it away from the movie itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I am no K-man. Prefer my lines the Jerry-way. jwalk713 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,842 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Is Robin Hood better than The three Musketeers? I've only listened once to the former (didn't catch me) but many times the latter, which I consider Kamen's best score, from the 10-15 that I have listened to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, filmmusic said: Is Robin Hood better than The three Musketeers? Loads and loads better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,553 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Jay said: It's been on my top 10 most wanted list forever Don't you mean "...list since 1991"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I didn't begin collecting film scores until 1994. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwalk713 40 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 15 minutes ago, TownerFan said: I wouldn't be so harsh. The writing is very solid and competent, both in the action department and in the more lyrical passages. The quieter moments have some nice troubadour-like ornaments that I particularly like (apparently, Kamen wanted to do the whole score just on period instruments, but the filmmakers wanted a more traditional approach). Some nice oboe and flute solos in some sequences as well. Kamen wrote in a very "busy" fashion, with lots of notes, perhaps sometimes he went a tad too far in terms of thickness during some accompaniment scoring (nowadays this kind of writing would very much be jettisoned for being "too distracting"), but I sincerely prefer such a balls-to-the-wall approach than most of anemic atmospheric scoring that became the rule a few years later. Agreed 100%. It's not for everyone, of course; but I consider this work to be his magnum opus, especially knowing the constraints and time crunch in which he produced it. You're right on about the troubadour-like ornaments; the frequent use of the Dulcimer really brought this home, along with what sounds like a pan-flute(s) at times. This is the last of my childhood Holy Grail soundtracks, so I couldn't be more excited for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,019 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 In terms of Kamen action scoring his magnum opus would be Die Hard 2. Karol jwalk713 and Demondm810 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwalk713 40 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 minute ago, crocodile said: In terms of Kamen action scoring his magnum opus would be Die Hard 2. Karol Interesting. I shall have to give this one a re-listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,019 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, jwalk713 said: Interesting. I shall have to give this one a re-listen. Don't be put off by the relatively slow build up though. It's the kind of score that gradually gets more exciting. The final act is an action music heaven. Karol jwalk713 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 License To Kill has great action music, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,019 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 It does. It's on my wish list. And, of course, Lethal Weapon scores have tons of exciting passages too. Karol jwalk713 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,117 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 At 110 minutes plus this new presentation would give the score a whole new life. Looking forward to it ie. I really hope it is ROBIN HOOD and not THE THREE MUSKETEERS. It would be quite a shock if it turned out to be the latter. 😁 jwalk713 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,019 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I'd be happy with either. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwalk713 40 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, crocodile said: Don't be put off by the relatively slow build up though. It's the kind of score that gradually gets more exciting. The final act is an action music heaven. Karol I absolutely love a good build-up like this. I'll hop on it at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ollie 1,059 Posted January 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2018 Watch it be The Three Musketeers. Jurassic Shark, jwalk713 and bollemanneke 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwalk713 40 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, El Jefe said: Watch it be The Three Musketeers. Iol Knowing my luck, that will absolutely happen.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I would think Roger would classify 1993 as "mid 90s", not "early 90s"... but its hard to know for sure of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 hours ago, jwalk713 said: Agreed 100%. It's not for everyone, of course; but I consider this work to be his magnum opus, especially knowing the constraints and time crunch in which he produced it. You're right on about the troubadour-like ornaments; the frequent use of the Dulcimer really brought this home, along with what sounds like a pan-flute(s) at times. This is the last of my childhood Holy Grail soundtracks, so I couldn't be more excited for it. I will give it a try. Maybe the 15 years since i last heard it made all the difference. jwalk713 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,373 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 The samples should be pretty revealing, hopefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,210 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 4 hours ago, jwalk713 said: Interesting. I shall have to give this one a re-listen. 4 hours ago, crocodile said: Don't be put off by the relatively slow build up though. It's the kind of score that gradually gets more exciting. The final act is an action music heaven. More importantly, don't be put off (like I was) by the lame original album. I hope the expansion gets a re-release someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,019 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Robin Hood: Prince of Thives and Shogun ordered! Karol Ollie and Amer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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