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The Dark Knight Rises


John Crichton

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Goldenthal is overrated and sounds the same no matter what.

The side of the film score community that adores him are the hipsters of orchestral music. He couldn't deliver anything better or worse than Zimmer, just different. Elfman would not fit. At all.

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I don't know. Modern Elfman could do something interesting wih this material. And he even said he enjoyed Nolan films so he definitely would be interested. But of course "interesting" in this case means "uninteresting" by most people's standards. As a fan of non-Burton Elfman I'd like to find out what it would sound like.

Karol

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The tone of his "Wolfman" could be an indication... That score is serious while remaining diverse and interesting to listen to, and succeeds in bringing the drama out (based on the music alone, haven't seen the film).

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Goldenthal is overrated and sounds the same no matter what.

The side of the film score community that adores him are the hipsters of orchestral music. He couldn't deliver anything better or worse than Zimmer, just different. Elfman would not fit. At all.

If there's one thing Goldenthal is, he's versatile. I wouldn't consider myself, as you put it, a hipster of orchestral music, but Goldenthal is, in my view, by the far the most talented film composer after John Williams and one of the very few that can actually write film music that transcends its genre.

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Goldenthal is overrated and sounds the same no matter what.

The side of the film score community that adores him are the hipsters of orchestral music. He couldn't deliver anything better or worse than Zimmer, just different. Elfman would not fit. At all.

If there's one thing Goldenthal is, he's versatile. I wouldn't consider myself, as you put it, a hipster of orchestral music, but Goldenthal is, in my view, by the far the most talented film composer after John Williams and one of the very few that can actually write film music that transcends its genre.

Agreed - and he does NOT sound the same, no matter what. If that's what you think then you haven't been listening to his broader output. Listen to Public Enemies and try telling me it sounds like Butcher Boy!

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TDK an awful watch?

Why? :huh:

it just wasn't entertaining. i didn't have a moment of fun watching it in the cinema. it took itself (ironically) far too serious. good acting, yes, but there;s more needed to make something a good movie. if i want too see people jeopardized or terrorized, i'd watch a movie about terrorism.

Were you the guy who said The Godfather could never be the greatest film of all time because it was too violent? Are you not familiar with the comic book genre? What tends to happen is this: You've got a theatrical hero with a double-life, and he/she tends to fight off crazy bad guys that terrorize the innocent.

I don't know, yes maybe that was me. I like the genre, but I don;t need the seriousness. As I said, I loved Batman Begins.

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Ah, yes, because those were the only options.

Weren't you the one that posted videos a couple years ago of scenes from Batman Begins set to Elfman's score? Anyway, a lot of people were disappointed that Elfman's theme was discarded for the new films, although it had already been absent from Forever onward. So weren't these films supposed to have some levity? Well, they do. In fact, the entire concept is a joke. It's Batman in a serious setting. Fucking Batman! It's a joke that's difficult to maintain, and Nolan pulled it off. The scores by Zimmer are part of it. They have to stay serious to suspend our disbelief.

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There's very few composers I can think of that can write a score well enough to fit something like the Dark Knight without it being distracting but also better than Zimmer/JNH.

Strangely enough David Arnold is one. He can inject darkness, technology, simplicity, but also a big enough sound for the blockbuster scale.

Danny Elfman often has a cutesy gothic sound, no matter what he is scoring, and Goldenthal just throws a fistful of notes on the page, and removes some until it sounds somewhat musical.

Ultimately to me, the modern day Batman franchise was made for 2000's Goldsmith. For example, some of the stuff in the unofficial ST: Nemesis releases fit scenes from The Dark Knight like a glove.

For example music for the scene the Scimitar gets the Enterprise in its sights at the beginning of the climactic battle, there is a crazy quality to it that captures the madness of The Dark Knight well, there is a tinge of sadness that conveys the the brooding nature of the Batman films, a simplicity that captures the lonely tones, but also the sad heroic that works well, and of course the Goldsmith synths to convey that Batman is a technological hero, not a superpower one. The score frankly sucks for a Star Trek movie for those very reasons, but those very qualities that don't serve Star Trek well would work wonders in a modern Batman film.

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Still, that 2 note theme is intoxicating....

It might be intoxicating, but what does it say about the character of Batman? After all, isn't that film music is meant to convey?

Both Elfman's and Goldenthal's themes managed to convey an epic, yet troubled, deeply flawed person, trying to work out his own salvation. Zimmer's score says...what, exactly?

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Elfman's score for Batman blows Zimmer's score for Batman Begins out of the water. If you think that Zimmer's score is better than Elfman's, you need to pull your head out of your ass.

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Elfman's score for Batman blows Zimmer's score for Batman Begins out of the water. If you think that Zimmer's score is better than Elfman's, you need to pull your head out of your ass.

My head is fine. I prefer Elfman's score.

What I mean is that people read too much into his music for Batman. Or at least me, I don't see al these subtleties Richard pinted out, the same way I can't see them in Zimmer's score at all either. To me Elfman's was always your typical heroic action fantasy score that's too much fun to forget.

Anyway, I've always had this crazy idea that if old JNH scored one of these films alone, Elfman would shit himself.

*cue The Orange Man*

The thing is , now that I said that, JNH better return to his pre-Last Airbender approach for Green Lantern. :unsure:

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Elfman's score for Batman blows Zimmer's score for Batman Begins out of the water. If you think that Zimmer's score is better than Elfman's, you need to pull your head out of your ass.

My head is fine. I prefer Elfman's score.

What I mean is that people read too much into his music for Batman. Or at least me, I don't see al these subtleties Richard pinted out, the same way I can't see them in Zimmer's score at all either. To me Elfman's was always your typical heroic action fantasy score that's too much fun to forget.

Anyway, I've always had this crazy idea that if old JNH scored one of these films alone, Elfman would shit himself.

*cue The Orange Man*

The thing is , now that I said that, JNH better return to his pre-Last Airbender approach for Green Lantern.

Or you would poop yourself. Oh and Giachinno should've been hired to score GL instead of JNH. Oh well.

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Green Lantern is pretty much a musical enigma right now. I have no idea how the film is, no idea how the music should be. If I used the comics as a reference I imagine the music as a mix between Star Trek The Motion Picture, Atlantis: The Lost Empire and Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

Giacchino has already got Star Trek 2 and The Need for Better Music and John Carter of Mars and the shadow of Basil Poledouris in his agenda.

By the way who is finally scoring Captain America? I thought it was either him or Powell.

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Green Lantern is pretty much a musical enigma right now. I have no idea how the film is, no idea how the music should be. If I used the comics as a reference I imagine the music as a mix between Star Trek The Motion Picture, Atlantis: The Lost Empire and Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

Giacchino has already got Star Trek 2 and The Need for Better Music and John Carter of Mars and the shadow of Basil Poledouris in his agenda.

By the way who is finally scoring Captain America? I thought it was either him or Powell.

I've heard that it might be Giachinno. I would've prefered he scored GL, but happy anyways if it's true he's scoring Cap.

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He's perfect for Cap! So perfect I'm worried about it. In any case, they could always license music from Medal of Honor :lol: I'm pretty sure they're going in a direction like that.

GL could've been interesting, too, if MG wanted to go with three spacey sagas at the same time. :lol:

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He's perfect for Cap! So perfect I'm worried about it. In any case, they could always license music from Medal of Honor :lol: I'm pretty sure they're going in a direction like that.

GL could've been interesting, too, if MG wanted to go with three spacey sagas at the same time. :lol:

Seriously if it's true. I'm happy for him scoring Cap. But I think GL would've had an amazing theme by him. Some of the DC superheroes that's had live action movies/tv shows have had some of the best superhero themes. Williams' Superman, Goldsmith's Supergirl, and Elfman's Batman and The Flash theme come to mind. Giachinno could've added GL to the list. Oh well.

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Ah, yes, because those were the only options.

Weren't you the one that posted videos a couple years ago of scenes from Batman Begins set to Elfman's score? Anyway, a lot of people were disappointed that Elfman's theme was discarded for the new films, although it had already been absent from Forever onward. So weren't these films supposed to have some levity? Well, they do. In fact, the entire concept is a joke. It's Batman in a serious setting. Fucking Batman! It's a joke that's difficult to maintain, and Nolan pulled it off. The scores by Zimmer are part of it. They have to stay serious to suspend our disbelief.

The chase scene, yes. And the two main points were A) it's amazing how well, within the approach of the track, it synced to the visuals without editing, and B) as wrong as this is for the film, it also has a little something that the original is missing.

The approach that Zimmer and Howard have taken is so one note (or two note), so myopic, as to do the films a disservice. Thankfully, it very rarely gets in the way much, but the music also does not do the film a whole lot of good, either. Yes, there should be real seriousness. Yes, the B89 approach is wrong for this. Why do people seem to think that what we got is exactly what the films needed, though? As good as they are now, they would be much improved by richer scoring that is still suited to the picture.

And I still maintain that 21st century Williams drama scoring with a touch of action-adventure spark would be a fine fit for BB and TDK.

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And I still maintain that 21st Williams drama scoring with a touch of action-adventure spark would be a fine fit for BB and TDK.

True.

Also, am I the only one that would like a horror score for a Batman film?

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So, Joseph Gordon-Levitt might be in TDKR

Link

I know Nolan has denied it before, but all I can think about is the Joker

Nolan has already said Joker won't be in it in any way. Riddler is also out.

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Elfman's score for Batman blows Zimmer's score for Batman Begins out of the water. If you think that Zimmer's score is better than Elfman's, you need to pull your head out of your ass.

Elfman's Batman score, as a whole, outdoes the Zimmer score in every way possible (writing, orchestration, performance, mixing). But I think "Lasiurus" captures the inner turmoil and enigma of Bruce Wayne/Batman better than Elfman or Goldenthal did. And oddly, it wasn't used in the film or in the sequel.

It's frustrating, since Nolan is a A-class director and you'd figure he'd like to use a composer to enhance his images and story on display. I don't mind textural scores, but Nolan's Batman is begging for a great symphonic theme. Oddly, when I listen to Shirley Walker's Batman: The Animated Series score -- it conjures up images of Nolan's films.

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I agree, I've long thought Walker's theme (and work) would have fit with Nolan's films. Especially as it's better than Elfman's *ducks*.

Rumour has it Joseph Gordon-Levitt will also appear.

What price Robin?

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I agree, I've long thought Walker's theme (and work) would have fit with Nolan's films. Especially as it's better than Elfman's *ducks*.

Yeah. I pray that a good video editor will edit a montage of the Nolan films set to Walker's theme.

On another hand, someone tried their hand at combining the Elfman, Walker and Zimmer material into a 4 minute piece. Aside from the horrible sound quality, it'd probably sound fantastic arranged and performed by an orchestra.

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I agree, I've long thought Walker's theme (and work) would have fit with Nolan's films. Especially as it's better than Elfman's *ducks*.

Walker is the best Batman composer to date. Elfman and Zimmer/Howard are good in their own ways (Elfman is better overall), but when I listen to them I only hear those specific versions of Batman. When I listen to Walker's stuff, especially Mask of the Phantasm, I hear the full spectrum of the character condensed.

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I'm not sure I would go that far, but her work needs more recognition than it gets and it's up there with the first four scores. Most definitely. I love the Phantasm score.

Karol

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While the music is being discussed, has anyone seen this video of TDK with Elfman's score tracked in?

Works pretty damn well!

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I'm playing the ending with some Shirley Walker and it totally rules.

The thing is, there are points in the TDK score where the combination music-image is perfect. It's the simplistic filler that brings it down...

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I actually think that the music for TDK worked perfectly for the film. Not everything needs large scale scoring or themes and TDK is a good example of that. On album, I still like it but it doesn't have the same punch as Elfman or Walker.

Chaac, what are you playing with the end of TDK? Might have to give that a go myself :)

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  • 1 month later...

He's in the film, but he's not playing Falcone's son. That has been debunked today. I wouldn't mind him playing Alberto though. Could be interesting.

Karol

That whole thing has been a bit of a fiasco. Nobody knows who he's playing at this point, but an official press release isn't too far away now.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Seems like Nolan found some architecture Chicago didn't offer. I've seen video and pictures of Pittsburgh, it'll look consistent with the first two films' architecture -- as long as the location scouting was thorough.

I'm just wondering why the production is avoiding Chicago all together...

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It's refreshing to see, in this age of CGI and green screens, specially in budget hollywood movies such as this one, that the choosing of the filming location is actually news, because we know we will see plenty of the city in the movie. Hooray for Nolan and his moderate use of CGI

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I don't find Nolan's Batman films to be perfect by any means, but that's one aspect that I really love about them. The CG is generally tasteful, restrained, and realistic, which makes it a lot easier to suspend one's disbelief.

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Absolutely. I think the Batpod coming out the Tumbler looked a bit dodgy, CGI-wise. But then, it'd be difficult to do practically.

And the ensuing chase scene made up for it. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

"Warner Bros. Pictures announced today that Oscar® winner Marion Cotillard (“La Vie en Rose”) and Joseph Gordon-Levitt have joined the cast of “The Dark Knight Rises,” the epic conclusion to the Dark Knight legend.

Cotillard will appear as Miranda Tate, a Wayne Enterprises board member eager to help a still-grieving Bruce Wayne resume his father’s philanthropic endeavors for Gotham.

Gordon-Levitt will play John Blake, a Gotham City beat cop assigned to special duty under the command of Commissioner Gordon.

The film reunites the actors with Christopher Nolan, who recently directed them in the award-winning blockbuster “Inception.”

The director stated, "When you collaborate with people as talented as Marion and Joe, it comes as no surprise that you would want to repeat the experience. I immediately thought of them for the roles of Miranda and Blake, and I am looking forward to working with both of them again."

Heading the cast of “The Dark Knight Rises,” Christian Bale stars as Bruce Wayne/Batman. The main cast also includes Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle and Tom Hardy as Bane.

Nolan will direct the film from a screenplay he wrote with Jonathan Nolan, from a story by Christopher Nolan and David S. Goyer. Christopher Nolan will also produce the film with his longtime producing partner, Emma Thomas, and Charles Roven."

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