WampaRat 1,105 Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 I really enjoy the musical narrative of Lionheart. And it’s interesting use of synths always keeps my interest. But I tend to favor Jerry’s more robust/punchy action sound in First Knight overall. I still dream about what his score to Paul Verhoven’s Crusade film would have sounded like. The love child of First Knight, The 13th Warrior, and a dash of synths (just cuz) from Total Recall. The Culmination of 90s Goldsmith epic scores. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,471 Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 This is a pretty interesting discussion, so I turned it into a poll: Goldsmith fans, please cast your votes WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,038 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 How is this release? Would anyone recommend getting this? bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 I'm sure Yavar will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittBash 282 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 I'm criminally small on my Goldsmith collection but this is one I bought when it came out... I've always enjoyed it.. It's Jerry at his 90's best bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,209 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 1 hour ago, DangerMotif said: How is this release? Would anyone recommend getting this? The score: Yes. The release: Yes, because the OST, while certainly a quite rounded listening experience, is woefully incomplete and among other things drops all statements of the heroic Lancelot theme, of which the extra tracks have many. (I've always wondered if Goldsmith omitted it because he didn't like that he took it from Mahler) …and I see now that I already wrote all of that on the previous page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, DangerMotif said: How is this release? Would anyone recommend getting this? Yup. You'll probably regret it if you don't. 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: I'm sure Yavar will. Yup, and plenty of other people besides. This is not SPYS where I'm in the minority liking it. 1 hour ago, KittBash said: I'm criminally small on my Goldsmith collection but this is one I bought when it came out... I've always enjoyed it.. It's Jerry at his 90's best Yup... the only part I don't much care for is Arthur's Fanfare. But that's just briefly in a few cues. 17 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: The score: Yes. The release: Yes, because the OST, while certainly a quite rounded listening experience, is woefully incomplete and among other things drops all statements of the heroic Lancelot theme, of which the extra tracks have many. (I've always wondered if Goldsmith omitted it because he didn't like that he took it from Mahler) …and I see now that I already wrote all of that on the previous page. What you said, both times! Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,141 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 5 hours ago, DangerMotif said: How is this release? Would anyone recommend getting this? Oh my god yes. You let this one slip by, you’ll regret it. On the off chance you Don’t like it, you’ll be able to sell it for triple when it goes OOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 5 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: Yup. You'll probably regret it if you don't. Judging from this fan-made suite, I can't see what's so good about this score. GerateWohl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,695 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 This score occupies a strange place for me - I like bits of it - Arthur's theme, the action material, etc, but I don't like the love theme and the score as a whole doesn't quite 'sit' with me. I've been tempted to pick it up on multiple occasions, given that I've never owned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,141 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 The word Epic is tossed around a lot. This score truly is. I have no idea if the film was any good, but this score fuels the imagination. It’s really, really big in sound. Yavar Moradi and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Epic doesn't imply good, though. GerateWohl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,371 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 I think, "epic" more or less just means "storytelling", doesn't it? 6 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Judging from this fan-made suite, I can't see what's so good about this score. Even though the music is not that spectacular it has some benefits compared to other Goldsmith scores of that time. It has hardly any of these today cheap sounding snthesizers like in "Lionheart" or "Poltergeist 2" and it does not have that extrem artificial airy reverb sound that often even made a real orchestra sound like a synthesizer like in "Star Trek Insurrection". Good old fashioned orchestra score. But I agree, I would always chose any medieval Rózsa score over this one. Anyway, I rate Goldsmith's Western scores high over his later adventure scores like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Epic doesn't imply good, though. When I've seen people use the word as an adjective rather than as a noun (i.e. "one of those old Hollywood epics") it's almost always a compliment. 3 hours ago, GerateWohl said: It has hardly any of these today cheap sounding snthesizers like in "Lionheart" or "Poltergeist 2" Hardly any? It has absolutely ZERO synth elements of any kind. I think it was Goldsmith's first fully-orchestral score since... King Solomon's Mines about a decade before it? That said, between First Knight and Lionheart, I prefer Lionheart, synths (and occasionally poor orchestral performance) included. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,371 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 41 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: That said, between First Knight and Lionheart, I prefer Lionheart, synths (and occasionally poor orchestral performance) included. I agree, Lionheart has the better music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,209 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said: When I've seen people use the word as an adjective rather than as a noun (i.e. "one of those old Hollywood epics") it's almost always a compliment. It's *intended* as a compliment, but it seems more often than not, people call something "epic" just because they think it's great because it's sooo bombastic. It's used as a measure of quality and very often applied to things that do not have much quality. Being epic must be earned to be good. That said, First Knight is both - epic and good. Jurassic Shark and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 hours ago, GerateWohl said: But I agree, I would always chose any medieval Rózsa score over this one. Since Rozsa didn't really write all that many (I'm guessing you're referring to Knights of the Round Table, Ivanhoe, and ... El Cid?) I guess I agree with you! 3 hours ago, GerateWohl said: Anyway, I rate Goldsmith's Western scores high over his later adventure scores like this. Same, but I think we are in the minority. First Knight is exactly the kind of Goldsmith score most "normie" soundtrack fans gravitate to, over stuff I love more like Lonely Are the Brave or 100 Rifles. Yavar Tallguy and GerateWohl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scallenger 483 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 I will echo that this score is fantastic, finally getting it about a couple years ago from LLL. And what a finale it has! It's pretty entertaining and interesting through most of its runtime too (I feel like it slightly sags in the middle, but not for long). You're best off NOT seeing the film, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Love the score, but the OST is more than enough. Tallguy and Yavar Moradi 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Thor said: Love the score, but the OST is more than enough. For you and almost nobody else, Thor. It is *entirely missing a highlight central character theme*! It is frankly one of the least-representative and worst-produced original soundtrack albums Goldsmith ever did, omitting quite a few highlights of the score. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,531 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 The LLL samples are down. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: For you and almost nobody else, Thor. It is *entirely missing a highlight central character theme*! It is frankly one of the least-representative and worst-produced original soundtrack albums Goldsmith ever did, omitting quite a few highlights of the score. I know. But the term 'missing' doesn't exist to me in this context. I think I sampled the expanded boot once, and yes -- it has a couple of highlights that wouldn't be out-of-place in the OST -- but as it stands, it's pretty damn sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 40 minutes ago, Thor said: Love the score, but the OST is more than enough. I'd say it's too much. Even the 15 minute suite I posted is kinda boring, although it obviously has highlights. A 5-10 minutes suite would probably be perfect. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: I'd say it's too much. Even the 15 minute suite I posted is kinda boring, although it obviously has highlights. A 5-10 minutes suite would probably be perfect. What on earth about it is boring to you? Just the love theme? (I think it's a really good love theme and obviously romance is at the center of this film, but if you're not prepared for that I guess I can see being bored by it.) I just checked the suite out and it's mostly very good cues. Again, I don't care for Arthur's Fanfare which is heard at the beginning of "Meet the Queen".... and among the great cues it (and I think the original soundtrack album) leaves off is "Boat Trip", a cue which adapts that love theme into an action context and gives it more flavor and development than you can tell from the suite: I just can't fathom someone thinking 5-10 minutes is enough to have from First Knight, but I guess if all you're basing that judgement on is a 15 minute YouTube suite somebody made rather than the 78 minute complete score, I guess that makes more sense. Which cues in that suite would you cut out to reach a "perfect" 5 minutes? 45 minutes ago, Thor said: I know. But the term 'missing' doesn't exist to me in this context. In other words, the existing album is "more than enough" because you simply choose to ignore that any other great music exists as written for the film. No matter how good/great it is, it doesn't matter and can't ever matter in your world because the album is all that exists and ever should exist, for people to listen to outside of the film. Well, then just acknowledge that's your very idiosyncratic way at looking at film music (albums matter, any unreleased music always doesn't matter) rather than the album being somehow objectively "more than enough". For me Lancelot's Theme is an important part of the fabric of this score, and its absence negatively impacts it in a huge, substantive way. 43 minutes ago, Thor said: I think I sampled the expanded boot once, and yes -- it has a couple of highlights that wouldn't be out-of-place in the OST -- but as it stands, it's pretty damn sweet. "Pretty damn sweet" certainly isn't the same as "more than enough" (implying that the existing brief album is TOO long). Which is it? Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Yeah, @Thor, don't be so inconsistent! Tallguy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,401 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Forget it Yavar, it's Thor town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Sorry, Yavar, that's just a post too long. 5-10 words would be perfect! Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: In other words, the existing album is "more than enough" because you simply choose to ignore that any other great music exists as written for the film. Exactamundo! The film -- and the music within -- basically doesn't exist to me when I'm enjoying and/or assessing a soundtrack album. I only assess what's "in front of me". As such, the OST works wonderfully (as Marian alluded to earlier in the thread). But -- having listened to, and even owned, the extended bootleg (not the official expansion yet) -- I've realized there are a couple of cues that wouldn't be out of place on the OST without it losing its flow. "Lancelot's Theme", as you mention, is one of them. Perhaps one of these days, I'll combine the OST cues with a (short) selection of cues from the expanded release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 17 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: Not available in my territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scallenger 483 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Thor said: Love the score, but the OST is more than enough. *sprays water bottle at you* Hey, no! Back, get back! Jwfan, I thought I told you not to let him in this room! *sprays again* [Teasing. I value your opinion... but no. Of course, no.] Thor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,141 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 If I listened to the quantity of scores Thor does, I might prefer abridged presentations too. What did I read, he said 500-600 a year? That’s almost 2 per day. I’m lucky if I fit 40 minutes of score a day in on my commute. Maybe his work is such that he’s already thinking about the next score before the current one is finished, thinking get on with it. GerateWohl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 17, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 17, 2023 He's more OST than man now. Andy, Yavar Moradi, GerateWohl and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,519 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Just now, Jurassic Shark said: He's more OST than man now. Your best joke post so far. Yavar Moradi and Jurassic Shark 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Thor said: Your best joke post so far. One of them was bound to stick. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 I think it's possible to enjoy an abridged presentation of a film score regardless of any significant thematic material that may be missing. To this day I still think Charles Gerhardt's CE3K suite is an incredible 25 minutes of music which I vastly prefer to the longer OST release. I'm quite fond of the First Knight 4-track suite on the Critic's Choice CoPPO comp conducted by David Michael Frank, which doesn't even feature Never Surrender, which many probably consider the highlight of the score. That same orchestra's Under Fire suite is also my preferred presentation of that particular score (let the lynching commence). Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said: To this day I still think Charles Gerhardt's CE3K suite is an incredible 25 minutes of music which I vastly prefer to the longer OST release. Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,209 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: I'd say it's too much. Even the 15 minute suite I posted is kinda boring, although it obviously has highlights. A 5-10 minutes suite would probably be perfect. Goldsmith conducted a 13 minute suite in London in 2003, and it was still missing one of my favourite bits (that's on the OST). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: Goldsmith conducted a 13 minute suite in London in 2003, and it was still missing one of my favourite bits (that's on the OST). So he made an overlong suite that didn't even have the best parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 11 hours ago, JTWfan77 said: Never Surrender I just listened to it and found it annoying. 12 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: Arthur's Fanfare That's one of my issues with the score. Its rhythm just makes it sound too modern, and regardless it's not very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Yeah but it’s only in like 3 cues (all of which were on the original album I think lol). I love all the other thematic material in the score besides it. Wish it had been the theme Goldsmith entirely left off the original album instead of Lancelot’s. Yavar Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,209 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 I like the fanfare very much. And its placement as an album opening track works better than in the chronological version, where its shortness stands out quite a bit. I haven't seen the film, so I don't know if it's source music, but on the C&C it sounds like score but feels like source music. Andy and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 This is one of my favorite Goldsmith scores. It works both ways. The longer score is never boring and the shorter OST is nice and tight. I don’t find Lancelot’s theme as necessary as some people although I like it just fine. I pull both out about equally I would say, at least since I started really liking the score. I only listened to the OST in all the time it took me to really appreciate this score so I still recommend it as a starting experience as it is the presentation that got me to love the score so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 On 17/02/2023 at 8:42 PM, Yavar Moradi said: What on earth about it is boring to you? You're asking why people have different tastes in music? Genes and environment, I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 I didn't ask "Why on earth is it boring to you?" I asked "What on earth about it is boring to you?" (i.e. what elements) And I even asked if it was the love theme, because that suite somebody made had a lot of it (and not the action setting). Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 It's not about any particular elements, the music just doesn't grab my attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Except you said you did like 5-10 minutes of the 15 minute suite somebody made. Which 5-10 minutes clicked with you and which 10-5 minutes didn’t? Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 That was an overstatement. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 On 17/02/2023 at 12:10 PM, Jurassic Shark said: I'd say it's too much. Even the 15 minute suite I posted is kinda boring, although it obviously has highlights. A 5-10 minutes suite would probably be perfect. So... you don't think it has any obvious highlights? Or it's an overstatement that you like 5-10 minutes because you actually like <5 minutes? If you liked any of the suite, can't you say what part(s) of it you actually liked? Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,087 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 I was trying to be nice! Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,038 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 @Yavar MoradiAny other Goldsmith recommendations for someone who thinks Arthur’s Farewell is one of the best pieces of music ever? My copy is coming this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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