The Official Tintin Unreleased Music Thread

[Jilal 569]

Ok, does that mean the film version in from is much better than the OST?

No, you misunderstand me. I'm saying that the rewrite (which surely is what is used in the film itself) is also what is on the CD, and that the originally written version is missing from both film and CD. I'm also saying the ONLY part that is a rewrite is from 3:55-4:23, the part containing the slow Treasure Theme. The only thing you're missing is another statement of the fast Treasure Theme, which is already on the CD twice.

The film version of The Return to Marlinspike Hall and Finale is on the OST. Apparently Williams' original version contained a different version of the Treasure theme at 4:08 of the track which was then rewritten and that's what's in the film. Jason says that the version originally there was more like the one at the end of Red Rackham's Curse and the Treasure track (starting at 5:38), with more exotic and warmer reading of the same material although I doubt it was as full blown transitional shot version as that.

Now you can start your moaning for those lost seconds of thematic über coolness which the original version must have had.

Nono, I'm not saying it was like the "exotic location reveal" music at all. I'm still not convinced that music is the same as the Treasure Theme. I'm saying it's the same as the "Fast Version" of the Treasure Theme, as heard in Escape from the Karaboudjan from 2:45-2:51 and Red Rackham's Curse and The Treasure from 5:46-5:55

Yes the rewrite is used in the film.

I think we can all assume that there's probably dozens of alternates (with probably subtle differences -- a few inserts here and there/different orchestration, etc. nothing huge) due to the nature of the split recording sessions. Already seems like Sir Francis and the Unicorn in the film and OST is different from whatever version was recorded last year (and was used in the early trailers).

Indeed.

[Jay 37,375]

Alexander, since you've seen the film, can you answer our questions here?

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Ok, I just saw the film (it's fantastic), and took some mental notes on some things (many of which have been answered already

-The opening ostinato motif from track 1 appears once in the film, when Tintin notices someone following them in Bagghar (turns out it's the Thompsons). Fitting, since him being followed is reminiscent of the opening animation

-The inverted Haddock theme from track 5 plays when Tintin first discovers the scroll (hinting at the secret of the Haddocks)

-The "oriental" treasure motif is first heard when Tintin finds out about Sakkharine heading for Bagghar, so it seems to do double duty for the treasure and the exotic location that the search for it takes our heroes to.

-From what I heard, the "B" theme is definitely for Tintin, used sneakily like in track 5 for him sneaking around or "actiony" when he does more dangerous stuff. I recall it playing when he's jumping or running around during the falcon chase and on the ship earlier. You could say that it scores him taking it up against the bad guys.

I recall someone writing that there was no curse and Williams made that track title up but there definitely is a curse, as in Rackham verbally cursing Haddock and his decendants for what he did.

Overall the score in the film works exceptionally well I, too, noticed the good short cues not on the album, Tintin meeting Haddock, making for the radio room, and shooting the plane. Definitely going to see this again!

... and just bought the first unicorn book on the way home

[Incanus 5,716]

Aha! The mystery of the "B" Theme is finally settled! It is the Secondary Tintin theme then!

And the Red Rackham's Treasure motif working also as a theme for Bagghar makes musical sense to me, has done so from the beginning.

[crocodile 8,020]

Remind me, which theme is that?

Karol

[Jay 37,375]

And the Red Rackham's Treasure motif working also as a theme for Bagghar makes musical sense to me, has done so from the beginning.

That's why I initially called it the Bagghar Theme

Remind me, which theme is that?

Karol

See here

[crocodile 8,020]

Gee, this score is dense!

Karol

[King Mark 3,631]

OK

I have a new specific question

I want a list of the UNRELEASED statements of TINTIN'S THEME and a brief description

[nightscape94 965]

[Incanus 5,716]

Gee, this score is dense!

Karol

Yup. It is perhaps one of the thematically densest from Williams in recent memory. I do not know if it is the animated film or what but Williams' thematic material seems to be highly recognizable from their tiniest rendition and basic cell which makes it easier to quote them in the hectic environment and changing pace of the film. For the most part he goes for very specific accentuating of characters with themes at specific moments instead of broader strokes where the theme works as a structure of a whole sequence developing during it. This approach I find to be an absolute blast here but to some fans it has been a turn off.

And the Red Rackham's Treasure motif working also as a theme for Bagghar makes musical sense to me, has done so from the beginning.

That's why I initially called it the Bagghar Theme

This again speaks for the expressiveness of Williams' thematic material. This particular theme does conjure thoughts of exoticism and foreign lands and combined with Williams' musical voice we are familiar with it, the music definitely has that Middle Eastern quality to it that almost spells out Bagghar if you even remotely know the story of the film.

[Jilal 569]

I recall someone writing that there was no curse and Williams made that track title up but there definitely is a curse, as in Rackham verbally cursing Haddock and his decendants for what he did.

But that's not a real 'curse' in the meaning of the word, right?

[Romão 2,274]

Having seen the movie once, I can add some moments of unreleased music I clearly recall:

- During the Karaboudjan sequence, the theme heard in Escape from the Karaboudjan at the 2:25 mark, is at least used two more times in unreleased musical portions

- There's a very interesting solo flute passage, with a very middle eastern flavour (think of Night and Stars from Lawrence of Arabia, not similar, but somehow convey the same feeling), when Milou leads the rescue team to Haddock and Tintin in the middle of the desert at night.

[Damien F 1,742]

I saw the movie again, a few more observations:

- I was wrong when I previously posted that Picking Pockets contains the first rendition of Tintin's theme. I believe "The secret of the scrolls" plays immediately after Picking Pockets, and that is the first performance of the theme

- I counted about 27 seperate performances of Tintin's heroic theme after the main titles.. The vast majority of these are played on brass with occasional performances by woodwinds. Five of these occur in the short cue where he shoots down and then flies a plane - the best unreleased cue in my opinion.

- Sakharine's theme only appears during the boat section of the movie. As mentioned in another post, some of these performances are not on the OST. They are played during dialogue scenes, so their omission isn't the worst thing. However, there is a nice little rendition of this theme played as a falcon flies to his arm (only lasting about 2 seconds, kind of similar in style to the fluttering music for Fawkes in COS, but not as grand and more menacing. The theme is heard again later in the movie, but it is tracked from the performance at the end of Escape From The Karaboudjon.

- The middle of the album is far from being in chronological order. Haddock's theme appears much earlier in the movie than the album would lead you to believe. However, most of the earlier performances of his theme are unreleased.

- The opening credits is animated in the style of CMIYC, hence the similarity in the jazz style of music.

That's all I can think of right now. Also, I was reading an article about the movie in Empire magazine, and they mentioned that they prevized the entire movie. If we get decent extras on the Blu-Ray/DVD, we may be in luck with some unreleased cues played during previz extras like KOTCS. I know Peter Jackson likes to put as many extras as possible in Blu-Ray/DVDs, so that is a little encouraging.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I know Peter Jackson likes to put as many extras as possible in Blu-Ray/DVDs, so that is a little encouraging.

Maybe, but I'm sure Spielberg will have final say on what ends up on the DVD/Blu-ray.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

There is no curse.

Williams gets creative with OST titles once again!

There is a Curse.

[Faleel 5,364]

I might have to record Picking Pocket when I see it....

[King Mark 3,631]

- I counted about 27 seperate performances of Tintin's heroic theme. The vast majority of these are played on brass with occasional performances by woodwinds. Five of these occur in the short cue where he shoots down and then flies a plane - the best unreleased cue in my opinion.

See what mean by Presenting Bianca Catafiore being totally useless

My heart just sank when I read this. It means the OST does suck if you go a bit deeper and that a clear highlight cue (that 's probably better than any action cue on the OST) was left out (on purpose?)

If this was an Indy score any omission of a statement of the Raiders' March would be a capital crime .And I consider this the Tintin equivalent

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

I recall someone writing that there was no curse and Williams made that track title up but there definitely is a curse, as in Rackham verbally cursing Haddock and his decendants for what he did.

But that's not a real 'curse' in the meaning of the word, right?

Haddock's family fell in disgrace isnt that not enough?

[Incanus 5,716]

So there is an actual curse after all. Classic Williams.

[Damien F 1,742]

See what mean by Presenting Bianca Catafiore being totally useless

My heart just sank when I read this. It means the OST does suck if you go a bit deeper and that a clear highlight cue (that 's probably better than any action cue on the OST) was left out (on purpose?)

If this was an Indy score any omission of a statement of the Raiders' March would be a capital crime .And I consider this the Tintin equivalent

I agree, from the point of view of a film score collector, Presenting Bianca C. has no place on the OST. However, that scene is important to the plot and probably one of the more memorable scenes. So its inclusion is understandable if you think of the OST as being targeted at the general public instead of score collectors. I still don't condone it's inclusion however.

"Tintin Shoots The Plane" is not better than the action tracks on the OST. I wouldn't even call it an action cue as such. It has a few heroic performances of Tintin's theme and then a nice swell when his plane takes off. The cue is about 1.5 mins. It is certainly an unreleased highlight, but I would not replace any of the action cues on the OST with this cue. They are all far more entertaining and lengthy than "Tintin Shoots The Plane". There is no need to place a cue on such a high pedestal just because it is unreleased.

I do agree that the OST's biggest shortfall is it's lack of Tintin's theme relative to the movie and I wish William's had included just a few more of its cues, not to mention a proper concert arrangement. However, there is still plenty of Tintin's theme on the OST, and I am certainly enjoying the album for what it is.

I know Peter Jackson likes to put as many extras as possible in Blu-Ray/DVDs, so that is a little encouraging.

Maybe, but I'm sure Spielberg will have final say on what ends up on the DVD/Blu-ray.

Well, we did get previz material on KOTCS, so at least he isn't opposed to the idea.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wonder the reason the broken glass sound was added to the Bianca Castafiore track was to make sure everyone understood that it represents a singer who goes over the top. Listeners not familiar with Titin might have complained about Renee Fleming's contribution....

[Richard Penna 3,696]

That's all I can think of right now. Also, I was reading an article about the movie in Empire magazine, and they mentioned that they prevized the entire movie. If we get decent extras on the Blu-Ray/DVD, we may be in luck with some unreleased cues played during previz extras like KOTCS. I know Peter Jackson likes to put as many extras as possible in Blu-Ray/DVDs, so that is a little encouraging.

Jackson being involved in the blu-ray means there's a chance of an isolated score. The EE fellowship was going to have one, but dropped due to space.

I'm seeing the film later, and I'm very interested in hearing this 'plane' cue. I also hope to prove that Picking Pockets was a worthy sacrifice

[crumbs 14,319]

There's no chance of an isolated score. John Williams has the final say on including those, it's in his contract.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

How about 1941 and Superman?

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

I'm seeing the film later, and I'm very interested in hearing this 'plane' cue. I also hope to prove that Picking Pockets was a worthy sacrifice

sacrifice? It was not changed for another cue, and the cd is not filled to max (it does not even reash the 74 min mark.)

Its just a last-thinking omision.

It's a nice source music.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It might also be possible Picking Pockets was for the scene were Mr. silk picks The Thompsons and Tintin's pockets and escapes. Or is that cue on the CD?

[Romão 2,274]

Bearing in mind its original placement on the cd and the type of music, I'm almost certain Picking Pockets is that first cue we hear after the opening titles

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You are probably right.

Some people here have the sheetmusic, right? When are we gonna see mock-ups?

[Damien F 1,742]

It might also be possible Picking Pockets was for the scene were Mr. silk picks The Thompsons and Tintin's pockets and escapes. Or is that cue on the CD?

That's an interesting theory especially as that scene has a statement of Tintin's theme at the end. However I doubt that is the case because it contains The Thompsons' theme, and Williams calls track 4 "Introducing The Thompsons...". I doubt he would have a track with that theme prior to its "Introduction" track.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Maybe that's why it was dropped

[Jilal 569]

You are probably right.

Some people here have the sheetmusic, right? When are we gonna see mock-ups?

The full sheet music hasn't leaked yet.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What exactly did leak? It was never clear to me?

[Jilal 569]

I'm afraid i can't tell you, sorry.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Can't or won't?

[Once 605]

It might also be possible Picking Pockets was for the scene were Mr. silk picks The Thompsons and Tintin's pockets and escapes. Or is that cue on the CD?

That's the part of "Introducing the Thompsons..." after the Thompson's theme.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ok good.

[Incanus 5,716]

So can someone provide the exact division of the Secret of the Scrolls. Jason mentioned it comprised of 3 different cues. Should they all run together or are these just statements of the Secondary Mystery motif (and the Unicorn theme) from different parts of the film edited together by Williams into a suite?

[Richard Penna 3,696]

Picking Pockets is somewhere between source music and score. It seemed to be just some accordions and a few other things going on. In terms of the desire for thematic, emotional or action music, this cue is not going to be a grail.

The boat/plane sequence on the other hand would be interesting to have, although I only really noticed the music during the initial shoot-down.

I also noticed the Tintin theme rendition on the ship as he sneaks into the radio room. Strangely, I don't remember any prominent renditions of Snowy's theme at all, and the 'Snowy's Theme' cue definitely doesn't appear.

From one viewing, there are maybe 2 to 3 good unreleased cues. I think every action sequence except the plane sequence is released - this really isn't too bad an OST.

[Damien F 1,742]

Another viewing of the film, some more observations:

- Clash of the Cranes is edited on album, as someone mentioned already. However, a majority of the omitted music seems to be based on the action music from Sir Frances and the Unicorn (the parts that feature Red Rackham's theme). It is not tracked because the orchestration is different, but it sounds very similar. That may be the thinking behind omitting from the OST - not that I agree with cutting parts of a cue just because similar music was heard previously. This musical link between the two scenes makes perfect sense for those who know the plot.

- To add further to the "Picking Pockets" lore, it is French acordian source music. However, the end seems to feature a variation of Tintin's theme on the accordians. I had my suspicions after my second viewing, but now I'm 90% certain that is the case. It is not a direct quote, but sounds like a highly altered statement of the theme. It occurs during the shot of his hair in the mirrors (the shot from the trailer), so its placement makes sense. If anyone is planning to see the movie in the next few days, keep an ear out for this to confirm my suspicions (you really do need to be paying attention for it to hear it)

[King Mark 3,631]

Ok so the OST might be a "good representation" of the score, but my main problem, and why it feels incomplete..is still the lack of Tintin them statements. So everything that's unreleased might mean more to me

It seems the Clash of the Crane edits and Picking Pockets aren't too important though . The Red Rackham theme is the Zimmer like one and I don't like it that much.

[eitam 364]

I think every action sequence except the plane sequence is released - this really isn't too bad an OST.

I just got back from my second viewing, and there is also a quite valuable cue of action/tension music right before Tintin meets Haddock... Actually I think this is the most interesting bit of unreleased music, IMO.

I'm also disappointed with the omission of Red Rackham's theme in The Clash of the Cranes... I found it most satisfying (and appropriate) in the film.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Ok so the OST might be a "good representation" of the score, but my main problem, and why it feels incomplete..is still the lack of Tintin them statements. So everything that's unreleased might mean more to me

If it helps you, musically speaking, Tintin is not the protagonist of the score. It's the Unicorn theme was binds the complete score together like a main theme.

I also love Tintin's heroic theme and would like more renditions of it, but since it doesn't get too much development, you can be reassured that you are not missing crucial elements of the score.

I just got back from my second viewing, and there is also a quite valuable cue of action/tension music right before Tintin meets Haddock... Actually I think this is the most interesting bit of unreleased music, IMO.

I don't need any more action scenes on the OST -- in fact, it's the quieter sections I miss. But I do agree that if I could only have one more cue from the score, I would choose Haddock's introduction.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

is sir francis and the unicorn complete in the OST?

If not, is the missing bit in the end credits?

Easily ripeable But with our luck that must be the only unedited cue of the album....

[Jilal 569]

1 edit, at 2:22, in the film the timpani roll goes diminuendo and then crescends.

[TownerFan 4,983]

I just got back from my second viewing, and there is also a quite valuable cue of action/tension music right before Tintin meets Haddock... Actually I think this is the most interesting bit of unreleased music, IMO.

I don't need any more action scenes on the OST -- in fact, it's the quieter sections I miss. But I do agree that if I could only have one more cue from the score, I would choose Haddock's introduction.

I think the most interesting unreleased bits are the ones heard during the Karaboudjan sequences. I really liked the rendition of Sakharine's motif when the falcon flies on his arm.

[Jay 37,375]

The official site for the movie has been updated, and now loops the music from the 2nd trailer (which contains a small amount of Williams music not on the OST mixed in with Sands of Time stuff) in the background

http://www.us.movie.tintin.com/

http://www.us.movie.tintin.com/media/audio/TinTinSong.mp3

http://www. us.movie.tintin.com/media/audio/TinTinSong.mp3

[Jilal 569]

Awesome!

[Ricard 2,245]

The official site for the movie has been updated, and now loops the music from the 2nd trailer (which contains a small amount of Williams music not on the OST mixed in with Sands of Time stuff) in the background

http://www.us.movie.tintin.com/

Here is a direct link to the mp3:

http://www.us.movie.tintin.com/media/audio/TinTinSong.mp3'>http://www.us.movie.tintin.com/media/audio/TinTinSong.mp3

http://www. us.movie.tintin.com/media/audio/TinTinSong.mp3

How many seconds are there of unreleased John Williams' score?

[Jay 37,375]

It's the same as the trailer music from this summer, so 0:19-0:35 are Williams... so 16 seconds.

[Jilal 569]

These seconds are not in the movie either.