Do you *really* think Shore's LOTR is as good as Williams' Star Wars OT?

[Ricard 2,245]

I think there's simply no comparison, but I suspect many here think otherwise. Let's see what you think, and who thinks what (your vote is public).

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Not only do I think LOTR is as good, on many days, I think it surpasses SW.

Usually equal is the baseline for me. But, I don't recall ever feeling that SW is the superior one. Certainly some of that is due to extra-musical matters.

Whichever makes me feel more is the better one in that moment; no more sophisticated criteria are required.

[KK 3,307]

Sigh. Not this again...

[Ricard 2,245]

Sure it's an old topic, but I don't think we ever had a poll like this.

And I wouldn't post it if you guys weren't so obsessed with it

[gkgyver 1,646]

Nah, LotR vs Star Wars was never a topic of interest here ...

Dear god.

[Not Mr. Big 4,644]

Star Wars.

[KK 3,307]

Sure it's an old topic, but I don't think we ever had a poll like this.

And I wouldn't post it if you guys weren't so obsessed with it

Have we not? I feel like we have....maybe its just the fact that people like to pit Shore's LotR with just about every Williams classic ever written, as if they're destined to be sworn enemies forever.

I can appreciate both, and love them both dearly.

And I don't see why our "obsession" is bothering you so.

[Ricard 2,245]

Dear god.

What? You're as interested in this topic as everyone else. Otherwise you wouldn't have voted.

And I don't see why our "obsession" is bothering you so.

Why should that bother me?

[Kühni 485]

LotR gets my vote because, unlike Williams, Shore had a complete story-arc to work on. He knew how it would start, continue and end. Williams didn't have that "luxury". As a consequence, SW is less consistent in its thematic.motific application, I feel.

In terms of composition, orchestration, however, I have to give the nod to Williams. The amount of subtleties in the composition is just astonishing, especially in New Hope and Empire. Hadn't Jedi been such a dumbed-down collision of ideas, I guess it would've been equally successful.

[KK 3,307]

And I don't see why our "obsession" is bothering you so.

Why should that bother me?

I don't know. It bothered you to make this poll didn't it?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

LotR gets my vote because, unlike Williams, Shore had a complete story-arc to work on. He knew how it would start, continue and end. Williams didn't have that "luxury". As a consequence, SW is less consistent in its thematic.motific application, I feel.

In terms of composition, orchestration, however, I have to give the nod to Williams. The amount of subtleties in the composition is just astonishing, especially in New Hope and Empire. Hadn't Jedi been such a dumbed-down collision of ideas, I guess it would've been equally successful.

You had me until that. It's the best of the three, pardner.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I think there's simply no comparison, but I suspect many here think otherwise. Let's see what you think, and who thinks what (your vote is public).

Like you I think (know) there is no comparison. But it did pave the way for LOTR to succeed as it did.

[Faleel 5,373]

LotR gets my vote because, unlike Williams, Shore had a complete story-arc to work on. He knew how it would start, continue and end. Williams didn't have that "luxury". As a consequence, SW is less consistent in its thematic.motific application, I feel.

In terms of composition, orchestration, however, I have to give the nod to Williams. The amount of subtleties in the composition is just astonishing, especially in New Hope and Empire. Hadn't Jedi been such a dumbed-down collision of ideas, I guess it would've been equally successful.

You had me until that. It's the best of the three, pardner.

Nah, thats ESB.

[Ricard 2,245]

I don't know. It bothered you to make this poll didn't it?

No, it motivated me to make it

[Faleel 5,373]

Option #3 BTW. if I want the to start the Waterworks I usually turn to ROTK though.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I have so many different recordings of the original trilogy. I have none of the shore music.

[KK 3,307]

I don't know. It bothered you to make this poll didn't it?

No, it motivated me to make it

Well played sir,

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

This seems to be just the latest attempted show of dominance by the portion of this community that is more inclined towards confrontation and territoriality, and less inclined to accept ideas that don't conform to their own notions of truth. Witness the emphasis on *really* in the question, and Joey's asserted "knowledge." Utter surety in the face of disagreement; such delusions of privileged understanding are common in these situations. Fascinating.

Let's observe more.

[Faleel 5,373]

You are really brave Who?, talking about the founder like that

[Nemesis 245]

Clearly Star Wars.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

You are really brave Who?, talking about the founder like that

Discipline for dissent will only prove my point.

[KK 3,307]

That kind of talk gets you banned here!

[Ricard 2,245]

This seems to be just the latest attempted show of dominance by the portion of this community that is more inclined towards confrontation and territoriality, and less inclined to accept ideas that don't conform to their own notions of truth. Witness the emphasis on *really* in the question, and Joey's asserted "knowledge." Utter surety in the face of disagreement; such delusions of privileged understanding are common in these situations. Fascinating.

Let's observe more.

Agreed! And I'm glad you're part of our "confrontation and territoriality" portion!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I understand your inclination to retort, but I'm not.

I've not once started a "Is This Better Than That?" thread. In fact, I made a thread the other day in an attempt to contain such things in a single place. Acrimony does not need to be the foundation of every single discussion here, but it often is.

[Ricard 2,245]

I've not once started a "Is This Better Than That?" thread.

But you like to vote and participate in such threads, right? That makes you equally responsible.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The thing is, I don't like to. I really absolutely do not. Nothing is less interesting and more grating to me than this kind of discussion, the kind that goes nowhere and ends with the inevitable "agree to disagree" or "everyone is entitled to their opinion", but it's here so often, and I like to participate in SOME way, so there's little choice. I think that in my initial post, I explained clearly and clear-headedly my position. I then made a semi-satirical post on the nature of such threads. The repercussions of that, I will accept responsibility for.

[A. A. Ron 1,744]

I think Star Wars is the superior score, but The Lord of the Rings is the superior work. I know that sounds strange, but bear with me!

To me, Williams is the better composer and always will be. But! And it's a big but, the level of detail and narrative structure that Shore managed to create in the year he dedicated to LOTR is simply stupefying! He really pushed the limits of what he was capable of as a composer and Shore's trilogy literally was a hell of lot more work than either Star Wars trilogy has been for Williams. LOTR may not have the same polish or finesse that Star Wars has, but I think it more than makes up for that fact in the pure sincerity of the blood, sweat and tears that went into that monstrous production.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Neither trilogy is representative of good film music, so I'm not really sure what the point of this poll is. You might as well be comparing polio to smallpox. It's well-established that leitmotif is a fundamentally flawed approach to scoring film, as it embraces a kind of audiovisual literalism at the expense of communicative coherence, expressive economy, and intellectual illumination.

Missing from Williams's and Shore's jumbled efforts is the discipline and attention to dramatic structure brilliantly exemplified by Jerry Goldsmith in Forever Young, which is, by any objective measure, a candidate for one of the ten best scores of all time. In it Goldsmith pens two themes delineating love and flight and plays them beautifully off one another, carefully developing a poignant synergy and a keen architectural unity that invest the film's finale with singular resonance.

[Not Mr. Big 4,644]

Great FSM impression!

[Wojo 2,453]

Shore's LOTR music moves and involves me emotionally. Williams' Star Wars music just annoys me to no end.

[Datameister 2,047]

There's no comparison for me. I give Shore props for all the hard work he put into LOTR, but the results themselves can't compare to what Williams achieved through the Star Wars OT.

[mrbellamy 6,305]

I think the LOTR scores are Howard Shore's very best work, my favorite of the 21st century, and an obvious landmark in film music history, arguably the most recent work to hit such a high standard as to merit "all-time great" discussion. John Williams has surpassed them over his career with a handful of his scores, but I'm not totally sure I'd count Star Wars among them. They're close enough for it not to matter IMO, and at any rate, both are well-deserving of their acclaim. I've always been a little surprised that the LOTR scores have as many detractors as they do on here.

[Incanus 5,722]

Ah we are at it again. Battle away people, battle away!

[publicist 4,643]

I've always been a little surprised that the LOTR scores have as many detractors as they do on here.

Has to do with all the inflated ape love for the movies which has spread over to the music which in turn has to be brilliant, landmark-y and what have you.

STAR WARS is totally over-exposured, overanalyzed and overpraised - on these pages anyway - but if you take the musical craftmanship and inspiration that went into it, it's just on another plane. There's so much dead air in LOTR - its dreams of grandiosity often crushed by the simple construction which in turn is covered by sheer size (more choir!! more choir!!).

On the other hand, i have my generous selection of both trilogies and why would i part with one of them?

[Quintus 5,399]

I understand your inclination to retort, but I'm not.

I've not once started a "Is This Better Than That?" thread. In fact, I made a thread the other day in an attempt to contain such things in a single place. Acrimony does not need to be the foundation of every single discussion here, but it often is.

Yeah, but you're forgetting that internet forums where everyone agree, agree to disagree and all get along beautifully, are all really bloody boring places.

As for me, well I've been through huge Star Wars and LotR fandom phases in my younger life, and while I'm no longer especially interested in either anymore (musically all played out), I do still appreciate the brilliance and importance of these two very different works. And so objectively speaking I couldn't really choose between the two. However I would definitely regard Shore's LotR to be the more ambitious work in terms of storytelling; whereas Williams' Star Wars is of course the much more delightfully accessible score.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,569]

Re: topic thread title. Are you having a giraffe????!!!!!!!

[publicist 4,643]

However I would definitely regard Shore's LotR to be the more ambitious work in terms of storytelling;

Just the worse music.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

LOTR may not have the same polish or finesse that Star Wars has, but I think it more than makes up for that fact in the pure sincerity of the blood, sweat and tears that went into that monstrous production.

Sweat does not make good music. If anything, it makes it stink!

[publicist 4,643]

....waiting for gkguyvers inflamed return....

[Quintus 5,399]

However I would definitely regard Shore's LotR to be the more ambitious work in terms of storytelling;

Just the worse music.

It probably is. But not the worst film score.

[publicist 4,643]

WORST.SCORE.EVER!

And...however...the real source of puzzlement for me is how people still want to listen to SW and LOTR (to a lesser degree). Is the ASTEROID FIELD a brilliant showpiece? Do i instantly push the Forward-Button whenever it comes up? Yes on both counts.

The sad truth is that beyond some random underscore from JEDI which i have listened to least, i just don't have any interest in SW music anymore. With LOTR the music is so 'monochrome' i tend to forget about it. Recently i listened to BALIN'S TOMB and thought 'hey, that's a pretty good piece' 3 minutes in before i realized it's from LOTR. So in that regard Shore wins...

[Quintus 5,399]

Well, I hope the incoming results of this poll have made Ricard and KM feel all warm and fuzzy again inside. Their little annual pick-me-up, as it were. Justice served.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You call him Dr. Jones, doll!

[Ricard 2,245]

The thing is, I don't like to. I really absolutely do not. Nothing is less interesting and more grating to me than this kind of discussion.

Confrontation and territoriality is in the essence of human nature. Accept it and you'll be happier

Well, I hope the incoming results of this poll have made Ricard and KM feel all warm and fuzzy again inside.

They didn't affect my mood in the slightest. I find them quite revealing, thought.

[crocodile 8,022]

Neither trilogy is representative of good film music, so I'm not really sure what the point of this poll is. You might as well be comparing polio to smallpox. It's well-established that leitmotif is a fundamentally flawed approach to scoring film, as it embraces a kind of audiovisual literalism at the expense of communicative coherence, expressive economy, and intellectual illumination.

Missing from Williams's and Shore's jumbled efforts is the discipline and attention to dramatic structure brilliantly exemplified by Jerry Goldsmith in Forever Young, which is, by any objective measure, a candidate for one of the ten best scores of all time. In it Goldsmith pens two themes delineating love and flight and plays them beautifully off one another, carefully developing a poignant synergy and a keen architectural unity that invest the film's finale with singular resonance.

I love you.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Remember the inflated attention TTT and AOTC recieved compared to the brilliant score Goldsmith composed for Star Trek Nemesis?

[publicist 4,643]

His impersonation is a bit too verbose, though.

[Incanus 5,722]

I'll give you some anti-FSM by doing verbose praise of both LotR and Star Wars. Prepare your sick bags 'cause saccharine is going to fly willy nilly over this MB when I get going!

[gkgyver 1,646]

....waiting for gkguyvers inflamed return....

Won't happen. This utterly useless provocative topic has been sucked dry to no end.

I'm, however, fascinated by two things. Firstly, the topic managed to make Joey crawl out of his hole and give his usual response, and secondly, that you still don't manage to spell my screen name.

[publicist 4,643]

I might spill it.