Jay 37,367 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stravinsky 206 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Can anyone tell me how many times the motif for Darth Maul appears in TPM? Only in the past couple of days has it come to my attention that a motif was actually written for the character. And this after listening to the score since 1999. Also is Shmi's theme actually a theme or similar to the use of "Baby" music in Jurassic Park The Lost World which is more of a thematic feeling which is alluded to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,894 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 38 minutes ago, stravinsky said: Can anyone tell me how many times the motif for Darth Maul appears in TPM? Only in the past couple of days has it come to my attention that a motif was actually written for the character. And this after listening to the score since 1999. Also is Shmi's theme actually a theme or similar to the use of "Baby" music in Jurassic Park The Lost World which is more of a thematic feeling which is alluded to? These two come to mind, I can't recall if it appeared elsewhere at some point... EDIT: Just remembered it plays very subtly here as well... ragoz350 and CGCJ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stravinsky 206 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Thankyou v much! I cannot believe I never noticed this motif until now. I much prefer it to the Duel of the Fates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,242 Posted July 4, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 4, 2021 I had a go at restoring 'The Speeder Chase' from The Rise of Skywalker, filling in missing footage with some concept art and storyboards as placeholders: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17-D5f9NIfu6U4UCH8RcjfTT5RYMNPRJy/view?usp=sharing Cerebral Cortex, Smaug The Iron, Falstaft and 12 others 8 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Great work @BrotherSound! The scene look far more complete here and it's a great pleasure to fully have this masterpiece of the maestro fitting the actual shot of the movie. BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmartigan JC 85 Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 Thank you. Amazing job. BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,242 Posted July 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 6, 2021 So, I've been curious about how the Oracle would have fit into the Mustafar scenes. There's actually two quite different versions of the scene in the novelizations: the Rae Carson novelization has a longer version featuring Hux and Pryde and with more dialog between the Oracle and Kylo, and Kylo wades into the pond the Oracle appears in to find the Wayfinder on some kind of island or platform in the middle. In the junior novelization, the Oracle talks to Kylo, but he never says a word in return. The Wayfinder is instead in Vader's castle or at least the ruins of it. There's also a confrontation between Kylo and his stormtroopers and the cultists before the battle breaks out. I'm basing this restoration on the junior novelization version, since it seems to fit better with the unused music. I believe the majority of this music is 1M15 Vader's Castle, though at least some of it is from a cue mysteriously called Ready to be a Jedi! However, I believe a different cue, 1M6 Ren's Entrance, may have scored a longer version similar to the Carson novelization. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H4tkHtAcCdB5-ZPmA57K7wh9-z1f_lNO/view?usp=sharing Manakin Skywalker, Holko, Brando and 6 others 5 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Manakin Skywalker 4,894 Posted July 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 7, 2021 6 hours ago, BrotherSound said: So, I've been curious about how the Oracle would have fit into the Mustafar scenes. There's actually two quite different versions of the scene in the novelizations: the Rae Carson novelization has a longer version featuring Hux and Pryde and with more dialog between the Oracle and Kylo, and Kylo wades into the pond the Oracle appears in to find the Wayfinder on some kind of island or platform in the middle. In the junior novelization, the Oracle talks to Kylo, but he never says a word in return. The Wayfinder is instead in Vader's castle or at least the ruins of it. There's also a confrontation between Kylo and his stormtroopers and the cultists before the battle breaks out. I'm basing this restoration on the junior novelization version, since it seems to fit better with the unused music. I believe the majority of this music is 1M15 Vader's Castle, though at least some of it is from a cue mysteriously called Ready to be a Jedi! However, I believe a different cue, 1M6 Ren's Entrance, may have scored a longer version similar to the Carson novelization. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H4tkHtAcCdB5-ZPmA57K7wh9-z1f_lNO/view?usp=sharing One thought I had is that perhaps instead of the scene ending with the Oracle sinking back under the lake, there could have been a shot/shots of Kylo walking toward the castle instead, before reaching the wayfinder. I'm not sure if it would work, but the ending does look and sound alright: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S4YiEONY-53eK-rrlU3CcdelFtBLGIFz/view?usp=sharing EDIT: Also this is pretty far off, just going by what's in the film and on the album, but I noticed that The Nursery fits quite well if the star destroyer shots are removed. I also had to lob off a bit of the beginning, so it's just a wild guess. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k-6cc6s1rJMdWwK8G46_3MTqDD_RhWl1/view?usp=sharing BrotherSound, DrTenma and ragoz350 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 41 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: One thought I had is that perhaps instead of the scene ending with the Oracle sinking back under the lake, there could have been a shot/shots of Kylo walking toward the castle instead, before reaching the wayfinder. I'm not sure if it would work, but the ending does look and sound alright: Ooh, I think you’re onto something there! I was biased by how the cue appears in the film, so I assumed something was added onto the end, but this feels like a more satisfying ending to the scene to me. It would also allow time for a shot or two of Kylo walking to the castle, rather than him just suddenly appearing there. Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ragoz350 450 Posted July 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 8, 2021 Ok, Attack of the Clones... I only recently realized that the cue 6M5 "Padme Falls" (the end of track "Love Pledge and the Arena") has 3 versions at once, since 2 inserts with a Force theme were written for it (it seems, with the exception of Across the Stars, this is the only case in the prequel trilogy). I tried to figure them out... In the first version (original, without inserts) there is one more rendition of Love theme (during the dialogue between Anakin and Obi-Wan), and then a sudden "chorale" with a funny counterpoint of trumpets and oboes/clarinets, which underscores the dialogue between Yoda and the commander: Spoiler A sync video of my mockup, although I'm not sure the dialogue hasn't been re-filmed since JW wrote the score... The first insert (used in OST) includes new renditions of the Force theme. It is the same length as the original piece. And the second insert (sounds in the film, borrowed from @Manakin Skywalker) is actually an extended version of the previous insert (the first rendition with a different orchestration and increased length, also the last bar of insert is played twice). It is noteworthy that the increased length was still not enough for the final cut, so the previous fragment in the film is slightly looped (in this video I still cut the shots)... BrotherSound, Falstaft, Holko and 5 others 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Nice work! I always forget he originally scored that moment with the love theme instead of the force theme. I wonder if that version was recorded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 I'm wondering if that 'orchestra hit' that starts the film version of the insert was actually part of that insert. Partly because I did raise the volume of the fades on the other instances it's used (in the film bastardization edit of Finale) and I can definitely hear the opening strings of the insert there along with faux reverb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,894 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Interesting, I was not aware of this version! I'm wondering if (assuming) it was recorded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 One clue we might get to find out if it was recorded or not, is to compare the 2002 release of the OST album vs the 2018 demaster, and see if there are different edit points at the start and end of the "insert". If there is not, then they might have replaced the original bars with these insert bars before recording the cue for the first time. Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,894 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 The edit points are slightly different! By like a few nanoseconds. So it's certainly possible that it was recorded. Holko and ZenLogic101 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,317 Posted July 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 8, 2021 The various edits are clear as day in the high-res audio spectogram. Manakin Skywalker, ragoz350 and BrotherSound 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,894 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Just now, crumbs said: The various edits are clear as day in the high-res audio spectogram. Beat me to it, I was literally about to post that as well. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,317 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 So does this mean a film version, plus two alternates for a future AOTC expansion? Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Looks like it, yeah Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Manakin Skywalker 4,894 Posted July 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 8, 2021 Brando, Chewy, crumbs and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 3 hours ago, Jay said: Nice work! I always forget he originally scored that moment with the love theme instead of the force theme. I wonder if that version was recorded Fortunately, the recording log is out there. It doesn’t account for the revised insert, but 6M5 was recorded 1/18/2002 and 6M5 Insert 1/24/2002. So it’s not a case like Hook where an insert was incorporated prior to recording, so we should definitely be able to hear the original…someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 That doesn't answer things actually. If the insert sheets were used to replace the original bars prior to recording on 1/18, the log would just say 6M5. then, if the newer force theme insert heard in the film was recorded on 1/24, it'd juts say 6M5 insert. However, with the OST vs demaster being different, is is more likely the 1/18 recording was the love theme version, and the force theme version was recorded on 1/24, and Williams just used a different take for the album than Lucas put in the film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Jay said: That doesn't answer things actually. If the insert sheets were used to replace the original bars prior to recording on 1/18, the log would just say 6M5. then, if the newer force theme insert heard in the film was recorded on 1/24, it'd juts say 6M5 insert. So, the original version of the insert happens to read "Thursday AM" at the top, and only the later date (1/24) was a Thursday: The revised insert was most likely written in or dictated, since it's fundamentally the same notes, just slightly tweaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Sweet - that's positive proof the love theme version was recorded, then! BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,864 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 2 hours ago, BrotherSound said: Fortunately, the recording log is out there. It doesn’t account for the revised insert, but 6M5 was recorded 1/18/2002 and 6M5 Insert 1/24/2002. So it’s not a case like Hook where an insert was incorporated prior to recording, so we should definitely be able to hear the original…someday. What insert from Hook are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 5M5 Show Us Your Hook As originally written, Low Below was used through the whole track instead of just the beginning; A later revision (5M5 New End) used the Stick With Me theme for the ending instead. But the original version was never recorded; The 5M5 New End sheets replaced the original ending's sheets before recording began. BrotherSound and Brando 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, Brando said: What insert from Hook are you referring to? I'm pretty sure 15M2 The End of Hook and 15M2 Insert Bar 28 were combined and recorded as one cue. @Jay, can you confirm that? 2 minutes ago, Jay said: 5M5 Show Us Your Hook As originally written, Low Below was used through the whole track instead of just the beginning; A later revision brought in the Stick With Me theme into hte ending instead. But the original version was never recorded I'm still waiting for someone talented with mockups to do this one! The original hasn't been mocked up yet, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, BrotherSound said: I'm pretty sure 15M2 The End of Hook and 15M2 Insert Bar 28 were combined and as one cue. @Jay, can you confirm that? Aye, same deal. The sheets were worked in before they recorded it. This happened with one of the 13M2 To War!! inserts too (the other 13M2 insert was recorded after the album was locked which is why it's in the film but not on the album) 19 minutes ago, BrotherSound said: I'm still waiting for someone talented with mockups to do this one! The original hasn't been mocked up yet, right? On 9/19/2020 at 5:25 PM, Jay said: I've never seen anybody make any mockups of any Hook cues at all BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,864 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jay said: 5M5 Show Us Your Hook As originally written, Low Below was used through the whole track instead of just the beginning; A later revision (5M5 New End) used the Stick With Me theme for the ending instead. But the original version was never recorded So the Low Below theme was written to play for the whole track, and was never recorded, or is that something else you're talking about? And what is the Stick With Me theme? I'm sure I'll know what it is if it's another track from the LLL album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Just now, Brando said: So the Low Below theme was written to play for the whole track, and was never recorded, or is that something else you're talking about? I don't understand your question? Just now, Brando said: And what is the Stick With Me theme? I'm sure I'll know what it is if it's another track from the LLL album. See here. Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,864 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jay said: I don't understand your question? See here. Oh, I got confused with my first question, nevermind it. And now i recognize the Stick With Me theme, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Thinking back, I have heard mockups of the 13M2 and 15M2 cues as originally written, actually - but I've definitely never heard a mockup of the original 5M5! Probably because that wasn't part of the big initial leak everyone has for Hook sheets, that sketch leaked many years later Anyone looking for a new mockup project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,894 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 13 hours ago, ragoz350 said: Ok, Attack of the Clones... I only recently realized that the cue 6M5 "Padme Falls" (the end of track "Love Pledge and the Arena") has 3 versions at once, since 2 inserts with a Force theme were written for it (it seems, with the exception of Across the Stars, this is the only case in the prequel trilogy). I tried to figure them out... In the first version (original, without inserts) there is one more rendition of Love theme (during the dialogue between Anakin and Obi-Wan), and then a sudden "chorale" with a funny counterpoint of trumpets and oboes/clarinets, which underscores the dialogue between Yoda and the commander: Reveal hidden contents A sync video of my mockup, although I'm not sure the dialogue hasn't been re-filmed since JW wrote the score... The first insert (used in OST) includes new renditions of the Force theme. It is the same length as the original piece. And the second insert (sounds in the film, borrowed from @Manakin Skywalker) is actually an extended version of the previous insert (the first rendition with a different orchestration and increased length, also the last bar of insert is played twice). It is noteworthy that the increased length was still not enough for the final cut, so the previous fragment in the film is slightly looped (in this video I still cut the shots)... By the way, would you mind if I incorporate that section into my YouTube archive/playlist? I'll of course give you credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: By the way, would you mind if I incorporate that section into my YouTube archive/playlist? I'll of course give you credit. I don't mind. My credit is also optional Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,894 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 It's nice to know that if/when we do finally get prequel expansions that AOTC and ROTS will likely have at least some degree of alternates; I always presumed those two films were much more light on the alternate/early versions compared to TPM, but that's just likely partially because most of that material hasn't surfaced in any of the video games, etc. Finally hearing that original section of Finale from AOTC performed by the LSO is still one of the number one things I'm really looking forward to... Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,317 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: It's nice to know that if/when we do finally get prequel expansions that AOTC and ROTS will likely have at least some degree of alternates; I always presumed those two films were much more light on the alternate/early versions compared to TPM, but that's just likely partially because most of that material hasn't surfaced in any of the video games, etc. Well off the top of my head, there should be a few alternates for Across the Stars, the Finale, Padme Falls, probably other stuff. Mike always finds some fun things in the sessions to include. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ragoz350 450 Posted July 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2021 I tried to edit the cues 7M1 Dooku vs Obi-Wan and 7M2 Yoda Strikes Back, according to the sheet score. Of course, it's hardly possible to completely restore the score with the material that remained in the film (besides, it's not a fact that everything was recorded in the same way as written in the sheets), but it's possible to get a rough idea. I also "mockuped" a little missing fragment at 1:25-:35 and 1:38-:46. Perhaps the most interesting thing here is that, according to the original intention, JW in 7M1 cue used active percussion rhythms only for Anakin's fighting, while Obi-Wan fights to the quiet rubbing the gong and timpani hits. Also I included a 7M3 Finale here, along with my mockup of the one original piece, instead of insert with Imperial march (and also ultralittle fragment at 5:34-:37). Again, thanks to @Manakin Skywalker for extracted music from the movie. CGCJ, oierem, Manakin Skywalker and 2 others 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Incredible work! Do we know if the original clone army section from 7M3 Finale was recorded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, Chewy said: Incredible work! Do we know if the original clone army section from 7M3 Finale was recorded? a little segment got into the some bonus video on the dvd. And it seems that this fragment has already been "mockuped" here few times UPD: here, 0:51 Raiders of the SoundtrArk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,894 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Also a very tiny snippet was used during the film edit of The Conveyor Belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: Also a very tiny snippet was used during the film edit of The Conveyor Belt. Oh, is it just one some chord? UPD: already got it, on 2:18 Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,894 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 It's strange though as the notes don't quite match what's in the sheets. Maybe another alternate we don't know about? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 2 hours ago, ragoz350 said: a little segment got into the some bonus video on the dvd. And it seems that this fragment has already been "mockuped" here few times UPD: here, 0:51 2 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: Also a very tiny snippet was used during the film edit of The Conveyor Belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 del Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ragoz350 450 Posted July 26, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2021 While I was trying to sync all Battle on Naboo stuff to the movie, I found fun thing. If the Gungans retreat scene is divided into two parts (split at the moment when Jar-Jar is on the tank), and in the first half a sketch is cut out where JJ is running from the cannonballs, then the scene is well syncing (as it seems to me) with the second half of 6M6 Up the Wire cue. If this is true, then the scene has been heavily reworked, and now it's impossible to neatly cut it (balls appear out of nowhere), but I like this sync. In this video included the ending of 6M5 Droid Battle, 6M6 Up the Wire and 6M7 The Great Dual (partially my mockups). Cerebral Cortex, Holko, CGCJ and 6 others 5 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,317 Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 25 minutes ago, ragoz350 said: While I was trying to sync all Battle on Naboo stuff to the movie, I found fun thing. If the Gungans retreat scene is divided into two parts (split at the moment when Jar-Jar is on the tank), and in the first half a sketch is cut out where JJ is running from the cannonballs, then the scene is well syncing (as it seems to me) with the second half of 6M6 Up the Wire cue. If this is true, then the scene has been heavily reworked, and now it's impossible to neatly cut it (balls appear out of nowhere), but I like this sync. In this video included the ending of 6M5 Droid Battle, 6M6 Up the Wire and 6M7 The Great Dual (my mockups). This is fantastic mate! Well done. Also, is it just me, or is that sequence of notes around 0:16 the same as the ostinato from The Spark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragoz350 450 Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 33 minutes ago, crumbs said: This is fantastic mate! Well done. Also, is it just me, or is that sequence of notes around 0:16 the same as the ostinato from The Spark? This figure is also in the previous cue Droid Battle (it sounds like Williams missed the Imperial march and used the progression I-VIb-I in this ostinato). The Spark has a similar motive, but already "made" on tonic harmony. But I think you can find a lot of similar motives in both the prequels and the sequels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,894 Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 Incredible work! Man it's such a shame how much incredible material in TPM likely went unrecorded. The alternate version of 'Death of Darth Maul' is probably one of my favorite pieces of music that doesn't exist. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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