The Force Awakens What does everyone think of 'March of the Resistance'?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Scarpia, I'm guessing you are thinking far too much in technical musical terms and not hearing that there is some similarity in tome and style. Though the Where Eagles Dare track Sharky uploaded is a bit more similar technically I reckon.

I disagree that "every military march" would sound like The Resistance Masrch. The Imperial March certainly doesnt.

 

Like Lee I would like to hear the classical piece some say it is based on.

 

 

Just now, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Mendelssohn??

 

Rather then Holst, Malcolm Arnold or Elgar?

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

It has a certain similarity to the finale of Shostakovich's 5th symphony, but I can't think of a Mendelssohn piece that seems related.

[Scarpia 132]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

Scarpia, I'm guessing you are thinking far too much in technical musical terms and not hearing that there is some similarity in tome and style.

 

Indeed, I do tend to think this way, which possibly prevents me from listening to similarities in tone, as you suggest. But I'm certain the first example is not similar in style at all, for the reasons I've already stated.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yet you think The Imperial March has the same feeling?

 

The Resistance March isnt actually a proper military march anyway. I can't see the armed forced marching to it.

[publicist 4,643]

1 minute ago, Scarpia said:

But I'm certain the first example is not similar in style at all, for the reasons I've already stated.

 

You understand when you watch the movies. British war movies from the 60's had a certain aesthetic that can be found in Williams' first SW score.

 

Listen to this trailer:

 

 

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yep.

 

Like with Star Wars, TFA has elements of musical pastiche about it.

 

[Scarpia 132]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

 

You understand when you watch the movies. British war movies from the 60's had a certain aesthetic that can be found in Williams' first SW score.

 

 

Quite true. The similarities can be seen in the overall result, and also in the music itself.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

I like the above discussion about the kind of theme it is. I will say this that there is something about the MotC which could easily make it a villain theme. It is rather forceful and extremely determined in its presentation and construction.

 

The Godwin themes seem more "heroic" so to say, or for good guys.

 

That is why I think the MotC is very interesting. It has a glinting mercenary edge which I think is reflective of the fact that it is apparently not actually sanctioned by the new Republic but is its own guerrilla body.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

MotC?

 

Shouldnt it be MotR?

 

But I actually thought it was the First Order Theme at first too. It reminded me of the Nazi theme from Raiders when I first heard it.

I know others thought the same.

[Scarpia 132]

1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

That is why I think the MotC is very interesting. It has a glinting mercenary edge which I think is reflective of the fact that it is apparently not actually sanctioned by the new Republic but is its own guerrilla body.

 

Yes, I really love this. I wish the nature of the Resistance was a bit better explained in the movie, to appreciate this music considering that aspect.

 

Still, it's a really nice touch by the maestro to write a piece like this for the "good guys", addressing the fact that they are an "under the table" guerilla army.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Fans of the 1940s newsreel sound of Star Wars, 1941 and parts of Raiders might enjoy Malcolm Arnold's Fantasy for Brass Band.

 

 

 

 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Mendelssohn??

 

Sorry, I meant Mahler. 

[TownerFan 4,983]

1 hour ago, Scarpia said:

 

Yes, I really love this. I wish the nature of the Resistance was a bit better explained in the movie, to appreciate this music considering that aspect.

 

Still, it's a really nice touch by the maestro to write a piece like this for the "good guys", addressing the fact that they are an "under the table" guerilla army.

 

In the Tavis Smiley interview, Williams described it as a piece "for the radical movement that wants to bring the Jedi knights back to power". In my opinion the piece is more a depiction of the willful revanche feeling at the core of this group of people, much more than relentless military swagger à la Imperial March. Even if the piece is modeled as a steady march, it doesn't have any kind of prominent military-like percussion, like snare or field drums, something which leads to think that the theme has more to do with noble resolution and less with prominent display of war power. The fugato writing also seems to underline the complex situation in which the group is operating (even though I see it more as Williams having fun with his own material, imho).

[nightscape94 965]

I don't recall a Mendelssohn connection.  Are you referring to Mahler?

 

EDIT:  I was responding to something on the previous page.  Obviously the correction has been acknowledged

[Quintus 5,399]

See this is that stupid post display quirk again! This new forum... 

[nightscape94 965]

It was his 9th Symphony, 3rd Movement.  Listen to the ending bit.  It's really just the turn that reminds me of it.

[Jay 37,364]

What you're talking about has nothing to do with this current software.

 

On any forum on the entire world, its easy to respond to a post at the bottom of a page without realizing there was a next page full of responses already.  It's happened to plenty of times to plenty of people on this board alone, on all versions of board software we've had.

 

All you have to do is look at the screen after your post is submitted and its clear if you're on a new page.

[karelm 2,913]

22 hours ago, dfenton85 said:

Can someone explain simply what a fugue is and how it differs from a march? What part of the track is the fugue?

 

A "March" is a piece of music with a strong rhythmic emphasis that is regular and repeated.  It is most likely in 2 (1, 2, 1, 2, left, right, left, right).  JW has a long history of writing marches and not just the Imperial March but these:

 

 

 

 

...and many, many others.  There is usually a militaristic stylistic inference to it.

 

A "Fugue" is a musical technique in which a theme built on multiple ideas (or subjects) is both imitated by following subjects and develops during the course of the work.  Each subject is a theme that will sound satisfying on its own but also works in greater context with the other themes and further establishes the harmony, thematic development, etc.  It is dependent on good musical knowledge, experience, structure and architecture to make it successful (it is hard for a beginner to do). 

 

"Counterpoint" is the simultaneous playing of different melodies (usually with their own rhythm so the different melodies can be heard as distinct from each other).  This all contributes to the musical material and should still retain the harmonic intentions even though these independent lines are played simultaneously (it literally means melody against melody...punctus contra punctum).  Fugue or counterpoint is not common in film music because it does tend to get in the way of a scene plus it's difficult to pull off well...the virtuoso quality of it.  It is also considered academic...an exercise of sorts so it's just very rare.  A march can include a fugue.  The fugue in March of the Resistance is at 1:13 of the cue.

 

John Williams example (starts at 0:06 where the first subject is stated followed by the second subject at 0:19 where the first subject keeps building as second subject imitates, extrapolates, develops, etc., at 0:33 another subject enters as each individual melody keeps growing, developing, etc.):

 

 

and if you've not had enough, here is a great classical example...

 

I think one of the reasons old time fans of JW love TFA score so much is you see he's been doing this since we feel in love with his music decades ago but still makes it fresh.

 

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

2 hours ago, Quintus said:

 

Sorry, I meant Mahler. 

 

1 hour ago, nightscape94 said:

It was his 9th Symphony, 3rd Movement.  Listen to the ending bit.  It's really just the turn that reminds me of it.

 

Ah, more plausible. I'm not very familiar with the 9th, but I'll check it out.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Another polyphonic technique not yet mentioned but more relevant to JW and film music in general is the canon. Essentially it's a relatively simple melodic idea passed around different voices, with each entrance staggered (voice in this context means an dependent melodic line, not the human voice; i.e. a bassoon and clarinet could be considered an individual voice if in unison or doubled at the octave),

 

A classic example would be in Alex North's Main Title from Spartacus.

 

 

At this point the Spartacus Theme (7 measures) is stated with no accompaniment, culminating in the Spartacus Cadence (3 measures)--a cadence is a sequence of at least two chords denoting closure. The equivalent of a full stop (a period, for you yanks). At 1:51 the theme is restated again, this time with an imitation arriving a measure later. With these two voices, you would call this a "cannon in two." At 2:12 the theme returns for a final appearance. As with before, the second voice enters with a measure's delay--however, five measures in (2:20), the violins and winds in octaves take over the theme, while the initial two voices drop their canon and become a homophonic (vertical) accompaniment in thirds. At this point the theme ceases to sound like a march, and transforms in to an anthem (helped by the cutting out the percussion and legato phrasing). At 2:30 this climaxes in the final rendition of the cadence, employing almost the entire orchestra.

 

 

 

[nightscape94 965]

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

3 hours ago, nightscape94 said:

It was his 9th Symphony, 3rd Movement.  Listen to the ending bit.  It's really just the turn that reminds me of it.

 

Ah, more plausible. I'm not very familiar with the 9th, but I'll check it out.

 

The whole thing is excellent, especially the final adagio.  If you want a recommendation I would go with Gielen.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Oh, I already have complete sets by both Bernstein and Rattle, but I haven't yet given enough playtime to several of the symphonies.

[nightscape94 965]

Which Bernstein cycle, the first one with New York or his DG cycle?

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

NY. Although I also have a CDR of his LSO 2nd, which is probably still my favourite.

[nightscape94 965]

The NY cycle is a good one, with a great 9th, and I'm not that much a fan of Bernstein/Mahler in general, but his 60s set is definitely up there.

[Clonemaster15 2]

I love it, it definitely grows on you also. Two other tunes this tracks immediately brings to mind is, Belly of the Steel Beast from The Last Crusade, which is what this song reminds me most of, and 1:26-1:36 of "The Droid Invasion and The Appearance of Darth Maul" from The Phantom Menace. Great song that represents the Resistance well.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

I was playing Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy and I realised something rather odd. There was a piece, I think it was from ANH or ROTJ that was fairly low strings and it sounded eerily like the melody for March of the Resistance. I think it played when the Rebels were preparing for battle or gathering at a fleeet? I can't quite remember and would appreciate if someone could point out the right track. 

 

Cheers.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

That game is so good.  I know what you're talking about I think, it's from ESB. Around 2:07 and 2:36?

 

 

 

 

 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

Yup that's it! Do you hear similarities in the first part or is it just me?

 

Especially here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

JKA is a wonderful game and the mod Movie Battles 2 makes it even better.

[skyy38 21]

"March Of The Incontinent?"

I don't know.

I have no control.

Oh, and some jerk-off, from tfdotnet, claimed he heard *duel of the fates* in the esb soundtrack.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

18 hours ago, Stefancos said:

MotC?

 

Shouldnt it be MotR?

 

But I actually thought it was the First Order Theme at first too. It reminded me of the Nazi theme from Raiders when I first heard it.

I know others thought the same.

 

Yep, my bad. I mean't MoTR.

[Quintus 5,399]

I wonder what skyy38 is like in real life.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

2 minutes ago, Quintus said:

I wonder what skyy38 is like in real life.

I try not to.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm sure he's less of a cunt in the flesh, like you and I....

[DarthDementous 1,059]

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I'm sure he's less of a cunt in the flesh, like you and I....

Oh definitely, but I don't want to focus on likable aspects it just takes all the fun out of it

[Quintus 5,399]

33 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I'm sure he's less of a cunt in the flesh, like you and I....

 

No comparison. He makes gkgyver seem affable. 

[Clonemaster15 2]

Oh, I never noticed it in that track The Empire Strikes Back, thats really cool. Ties to the Original Trilogy, of course!

 

Another thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is that its one of the most classical compositions I've ever heard from John Williams, especially 1:11-1:45.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

39 minutes ago, Clonemaster15 said:

Oh, I never noticed it in that track The Empire Strikes Back, thats really cool. Ties to the Original Trilogy, of course!

 

Another thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is that its one of the most classical compositions I've ever heard from John Williams, especially 1:11-1:45.

Completely agree. Definitely one of his most classical in quite some time.

Bits of this kinda remind me of the 7:41 part of "Journey to the Island." 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

There were parts of The Phantom Menace which sounded decidedly "classical". 

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

The suspended notes or nodes or whatever its called that Williams does from 1:15 to 1:32 is just brilliant. I don't think any film composer could even attempt something like this. It is very classical music like. It gives the march a kind of awe-inspiring fury and momentum that's very much like classical music. Too bad this moment couldn't be in the film proper.

 

That's one of the most brilliant things Williams has written recently.

 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

Indeed. 

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

This theme is a bit of an ear worm for me. I'm not hugely in love with it, but when I find myself absent minded;y humming it's the resistance March.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

7 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

The suspended notes or nodes or whatever its called that Williams does from 1:15 to 1:32 is just brilliant.

 

 

 

What about 1:45 - 1:55?

10 seconds of blood-curling heroism, right there.

[Quintus 5,399]

One of the best bits! 

[Loert 2,511]

I think my favourite bit is 1:31 - 1:41. Gotta love the way the violins enter at 1:36, as well as the bass line just after!

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

6 hours ago, Lhokne Mulb said:

This theme is a bit of an ear worm for me. I'm not hugely in love with it, but when I find myself absent minded;y humming it's the resistance March.

Same, It's far from being my favorite theme from TFA but it's the one the I find myself humming the most.

[Datameister 2,043]

The two punchy descending chords at the end of the main melody were among the most memorable elements of this score when I first saw the film. It's a great theme, especially when delivered with the right energy and a decently fast tempo.

[Quintus 5,399]

I thought about those two notes many times actually, in the early days. They didn't quite sit right with me, and I thought the melody might have perhaps been more satisfying to me if they were reversed. 

[Loert 2,511]

39 minutes ago, Quintus said:

I thought about those two notes many times actually, in the early days. They didn't quite sit right with me, and I thought the melody might have perhaps been more satisfying to me if they were reversed. 

 

Some variations based on that...

 

[mrbellamy 6,287]

I like the second one. Needs that dominant cadence going into the B theme.