TheophileLewis 1 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Hello everyone, Being a fan of Star Wars since I was a kid, I couldn’t have been more excited at the idea of a new trilogy. I went to see Star Wars: Episode VII and was not disappointed. The only thing missing for me was this: The music for the big bad Kylo Ren was lacking. I went online to see if he had some sort of official theme and he did, but it wasn't really representative. Looking back at the original trilogy, I found this surprising because the theme music for Darth Vader, The Imperial March, is impossible to forget. Kylo Ren being so closely related to Vader, I decided to challenge myself to create a narrative anti-hero theme composition for Kylo Ren : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,757 Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meredith McKay 7,150 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 3 hours ago, TheophileLewis said: Looking back at the original trilogy, I found this surprising because the theme music for Darth Vader, The Imperial March, is impossible to forget Except the Imperial march was not in A New Hope, because he had a different theme in that film, perhaps you should be comparing to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheophileLewis 1 Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 And just to be clear, I'm NOT bragging around saying I did something better than John Williams, it's just a FAN music, I did it for fun. I don't have a real orchestra at home, I'm a young composer. So, no need to bring pop corn to watch people discrediting my work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,276 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 19 minutes ago, Faleel said: Except the Imperial march was not in A New Hope, because he had a different theme in that film, perhaps you should be comparing to that. Darth Vader's Theme '77 > Kylo Ren's Theme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 629 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 What was Vader's theme in 77? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,953 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Kylo Ren has a motif, well 2 actually. The empire/Vader had 1 short motif in ANH. That short motif and Kylo Ren's bad guy motif are kind of similar in their sound and style. Both big brassy statements, very declamatory. John Williams would call them "direct." To the OP, your fan theme is interesting but a bit too eclectic. The melodies don't seem related and some of the orchestration seems to diverse for what is intended to be one unifed theme. But good work and keep it up. Fan music is always fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Not Mr. Big 4,757 Posted April 6, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted April 6, 2016 17 minutes ago, Ricard said: Darth Vader's Theme '77 > Kylo Ren's Theme I prefer Kylo Ren's theme/motif. leeallen01, Taikomochi and DarthDementous 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,974 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 39 minutes ago, Mr. Big said: I prefer Kylo Ren's theme/motif. Me too. It's tied with Poe's Theme as my favourite from TFA. Nothing "lacking" about it whatsoever. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,308 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 Kylo Ren's theme still rings hollow for me. But Poe's Theme is wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,943 Posted April 6, 2016 Share Posted April 6, 2016 I can pretty much agree that Kylo Ren's motif underwhelms when one listens to it always waiting for an explosion into a big rousing Dark Side musical number. I'm glad I went into TFA just hoping for a few great score-to-picture moments and one really terrific new concert piece to enjoy. Even then it was hard to get those early session reports about emotionally devastating "cantilenas" and catchy big band tunes out of my head. These kinds of specific expectations and fantasies have killed my appreciation of a lot of stuff in the past. Keep up with the composing, TheophileLewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post artguy360 1,953 Posted April 6, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted April 6, 2016 The first time Kylo Ren's theme plays over the theater speakers as his shuttle lands on Jakku is nothing short of amazing to me. I love how strong and clear his theme is. I get major ANH vibes from it. Sharkissimo, Taikomochi, Disco Stu and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marcus 390 Posted April 6, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted April 6, 2016 10 hours ago, TheophileLewis said: Hello everyone, Being a fan of Star Wars since I was a kid, I couldn’t have been more excited at the idea of a new trilogy. I went to see Star Wars: Episode VII and was not disappointed. The only thing missing for me was this: The music for the big bad Kylo Ren was lacking. I went online to see if he had some sort of official theme and he did, but it wasn't really representative. Looking back at the original trilogy, I found this surprising because the theme music for Darth Vader, The Imperial March, is impossible to forget. Kylo Ren being so closely related to Vader, I decided to challenge myself to create a narrative anti-hero theme composition for Kylo Ren : Keep writing! Letting puzzles like this trigger your musical imagination is a wonderful exercise! Williams "Kylo Ren" motifs are pretty tough to take on, though, as they're imbued with such an expert take on who that character is, and what he's about. There's a very good reason why there's no fully fledged "big bad" Kylo Ren villain's march: Kylo Ren is a young, very conflicted character. The two motifs for him reflect both his ominous presence and the underlying tragedy of his transformation. The way we end up musically portraying characters and human characteristics has everything to do with our own sense of empathy, and our personal response, based on personal experience. Being a young composer, Kylo Ren very likely comes across as both "big" and "bad" to your mind, whereas Williams scores him the way he perceives him. Jacck, Arpy, artguy360 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheophileLewis 1 Posted April 6, 2016 Author Share Posted April 6, 2016 I would like to thanks everyone. I read all your comments. It's really interesting and Marcus your sentence "Being a young composer, Kylo Ren very likely comes across as both "big" and "bad" to your mind, whereas Williams scores him the way he perceives him", perception is everything. And John Williams, way (no offense JW) older than me, as more tools to perceive a character. I'm still young and "naive". You are right, John Williams has more shades, hues, the way he perceives Kylo Ren in his music than me. Good point !! (I would like to apology for the poor english syntax, I'm french, obviously !) Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 1,044 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 11 hours ago, TheophileLewis said: I would like to thanks everyone. I read all your comments. It's really interesting and Marcus your sentence "Being a young composer, Kylo Ren very likely comes across as both "big" and "bad" to your mind, whereas Williams scores him the way he perceives him", perception is everything. And John Williams, way (no offense JW) older than me, as more tools to perceive a character. I'm still young and "naive". You are right, John Williams has more shades, hues, the way he perceives Kylo Ren in his music than me. Good point !! (I would like to apology for the poor english syntax, I'm french, obviously !) Well, it's not bad. It just doesn't fit the character. I'd love to see Kylo Ren's theme (and Poe's) expanded into a full suite in Episode VIII. By the way... 11 hours ago, TheophileLewis said: I'm still young and "naive". We will find controlling you will not be difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,518 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 On 06/04/2016 at 3:21 AM, Mr. Big said: I prefer Kylo Ren's theme/motif. Me too, although I do still have a soft spot for, well, EVERYTHING ABOUT FIRST STAR WARS MUSIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,839 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 I think these reactions depend on expectations and indeed perceptions of Kylo Ren as a character. To my mind Ben (or Ren) shows the impetuous immaturity of youth very clearly in the film. He has been raised to a position of power by Snoke, which he thinks he deserves through his skills and lineage but is constantly hounded by insecurity and immaturity. He lacks focus and concentration, self control, that would allow him to rule his passions and rage, from which he seems to think he can draw a lot of his power but which is mostly shown as a weakness not a resource. There is arrogance and pride in him and wounding of his pride and ego when his own actions and rash choices cause failure lead to uncontrolled rage. He has a legacy to live up to and he obviously fears that he can't. He is the Darth Vader wannabe but actually still far from attaining such status or power. He throws his authority around with mandate from Snoke without actually having quite yet earned it, at least during the events we see in the film. And just like Darth Vader in the first SW film Kylo Ren is still an errand boy of a more powerful manipulative being, Snoke, not the head honcho even though he wields a lot of influence over the First Order. Musically Kylo Ren's themes, the fanfare and the constantly descending fateful line to my mind capture this essence of the character quite succintly (be they worn dramatic musical devices or not). That exclamatory fanfare connects with the Imperial tradition (note the fanfarish flourishes surrounding the theme on Jakku, which seem to be derived from the final section of the Imperial March concert suite) and is a classic "bad guy is here" calling card which really shows the egomaniacal bluster of Kylo in his Knight of Ren persona. It exhibits his impetuous nature with short angry musical burst, an exclamation, which flares up suddenly, just like his anger and violent behaviour. He wants to be Darth Vader but can't quite summon up similar persona no matter how he postures around in a helmet and black clothes. Hence the theme doesn't go much beyond the initial 5-note motif. The second theme for Kylo, the descending line is simple, almost obsessive, strangely mournful and threatening at the same time in how it constantly repeats (sometimes over churning low strings), depicting his inner conflict and self doubt, which manifests especially in his encounters with Rey who tests his power with the Force but Williams alludes to his susceptibility to the dark side with it when he injects it under the dialogue of Han and Leia as they discuss how Snoke manipulated their son to join him. There is a pull between the light and dark in him. Williams also uses the motif freely as secondary material for Kylo Ren for the sake of aural variety and alternates the two motifs e.g. in The Ways of the Force although it could be said that each motif underscores specific dramatic beats in the duel as well. So I personally feel these two compact ideas to be pretty accurate musico-dramatic equivalents of two different sides of Kylo Ren's persona. He in a sense has not earned a full fledged villain theme yet although his motifs are the main villanous material of the score. It is no Imperial March but to my mind it didn't need to be. Let's see if Wililams might actually get to expand upon these musical ideas in the sequels in a way that feels natural progression and possibly create a lengthier thematic representation for the character. P.S. Keep up the good work with the composing. DarthDementous and Smeltington 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,521 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,518 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 On 05/04/2016 at 11:06 PM, TheophileLewis said: This actually sounds exactly like what I'd expect from a Zelda boss fight. Nice one OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,839 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, Quintus said: This actually sounds exactly like what I'd expect from a Zelda boss fight. Nice one OP. You play Zelda games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,518 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Used too. Haven't owned a Nintendo system since the GameCube though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,521 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 Nintendo! My cousin had a Gameboy. Those were cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheophileLewis 1 Posted April 7, 2016 Author Share Posted April 7, 2016 Guys I don't know if you understand french, but here is the explanation of my song : (If you really want a translation, I can do it) Choix des instruments Les instruments que j’ai utilisé pour la réalisation de ma pièce ont tous un lien avec le personnage de Kylo Ren. Ils représentent ses émotions, ou sa démarche: La Harpe, représente l’innocence juvénile de Ben Solo (futur Kylo Ren). Avant d’être un seigneur Sith, il était un élève Jedi. Les Percussions sont là pour donner le caractère guerrier du personnage. Les Violoncelles et Contre Basses caractérisent sa démarche, et cherchent à rappeler son grand-père, Darth Vader. La section des Vents (trompettes, hautbois, tuba) est là pour appuyer le thème principal de la pièce et donner des attaques (hits) démarquées. Cela représente le caractère violent et incontrôlable de Kylo Ren. La Flûte qui intervient pendant le pont après le premier thème, induit le doute et l’innocence à nouveau. Kylo Ren doute de son statut de Sith du fait de son jeune âge. Les Coeurs d’Hommes, sont une référence à Snoke (et Darth Plagueis), le seigneur Sith qui forme Kylo Ren au côté obscur. En effet, dans l’épisode III : La Revanche des Siths de Star Wars lors de la scène où Palpatine parle à Anakin de son ancien maître Jedi qui s'avéraient sombrer du côté obscur, des coeurs d’hommes se font entendre en fond (The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise), et ce même thème est présent lorsque l’on découvre Snoke le seigneur Sith de la nouvelle trilogie, et maître de Kylo Ren. On peut grâce à ces deux thèmes similaires faire le lien entre Darth Plagueis et Snoke qui seraient la même entité. Les Violons rappellent une fois encore le fait que Kylo Ren est jeune et conserve en lui une part d’innocence. La structure de la pièce La pièce est un 4/4, avec un tempo de 100 bpm. Je tente de raconter l’histoire de Kylo Ren à travers des motifs sonores et les différentes sections de la pièce. Mesures 1 à 7 : Ouverture - L’innocence, La jeunesse du Jedi, Ben Solo Mesures 7 à 11 : Bridge I - L’Héritage du Sang, Ben Solo apprend que son grand père était un Sith, Darth Vader, et né en lui une attirance pour le côté obscur. Mesure 9, Snoke manifeste son intérêt pour Ben Solo, il veut en faire son apprenti. Mesures 11 à 21 : Pré-Thème I - La Voie des Siths, Ben commence sa formation auprès de Snoke. Mesures 21 à 30 : Thème I - Naissance de Kylo Ren, premiers actes barbares à l’encontre du code des Jedis, Ben Solo laisse place à Kylo Ren, tentant d’être le digne héritier de Darth Vader d’où la réminiscence de la Marche Impériale dans le thème. Mesures 30 à 55 : Bridge II - Le Doute, Kylo Ren revoit son père, Han Solo, et le doute s’instaure en lui. Est-il réellement un Sith ? Doit-il abandonner ses desseins ? Mesures 55 à 61 : Pré-Thème II - La Décision, Kylo Ren tue son père et scelle ainsi son destin de Sith. Son but est très clair : être le digne héritier de son grand père Darth Vader et surpasser sa puissance. Mesures 61 à 69 : Thème II - L’Avènement de Kylo Ren, Mesures 69 à 80 : Fermeture - Le Jedi Déchu, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,521 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 The vast majority of people here do not speak French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,889 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 But @Bespin does! À tout à l'heure, aujourd'hui (that's all the French I know) bespinGPT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,943 Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Je suis un deux trois Tour de France! Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,521 Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Les Aventures de Tintin et Milou Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelliwisethebrave 54 Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Il faut dire que, selon Pablo Hidalgo, Kylo Ren n'est pas un Sith (ni Snoke, bien sûr) Spoiler must say that, according to Pablo Hidalgo, Kylo Ren isn't a Sith (neither is Snoke, of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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