Thor 7,508 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, Alexcremers said: One of the reasons of the success of Alien is how realistic and relatable the characters are. It instantly gives them an extra dimension, making them into something more than just random characters or cannon fodder. We connect to their unseen-before realism, their commonness, naturalism, and yes, likability, without Hollywoodizing or glamorizing them. And if you would ask me, it's rarely done better. Of course, Alien is one of my favorite movies, but it's not just because of its the way it looks. It's the combination of creating a convincing place inhabited with equally convincing characters. Not every movie pulls this off. If the characters of Alien really left us cold, then we wouldn't care what happens to them, and the movie would not be were it is today. Heck, Ripley is often cited as one of the best sci-fi heroines of all time. Really, KK, if you believe Alien is a great example for telling me that characters don't matter as long as a movie's world is great, then you did not succeed. Any other examples? No doubt the characters in ALIEN are important for the engrossment (crucial even), and the realistic way they are portrayed, but that's not why it became such a cornerstone classic. If that was all there was to it, it would have been a pretty run-of-the-mill genre pic. Quite the contrary, it has ALL to do with mise-en-scene, and how that creates sub-conscious effects on the spectator, founded on some deep, psychological trauma that we all share. But we've discussed this topic many times before, and I even forwarded you to an article I wrote a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 Just now, Romão said: 2001 Well, that's probably the only sci-fi film, that I can think of, where it's all successfully about the movie itself and not the characters. But even here, I have to say that David Bowman is an irreplaceable and iconic character. The movie would be less great without him, IMO. Just now, Thor said: No doubt the characters in ALIEN are important for the engrossment, and the realistic way they are portrayed, but that's not why it became such a cornerstone classic. If that was all there was to it, it would have been a pretty run-of-the-mill genre pic. Quite the contrary, it has ALL to do with mise-en-scene, and how that creates sub-conscious effects on the spectator, founded on some deep, psychological trauma that we all share. But we've discussed this topic many times before, and I even forwarded you to an article I wrote a few years ago. You are right, the design of Alien is extremely important. But like I said, Thor, it's the combination of creating a convincing place (which Scott & Co accomplish greatly) inhabited with characters that you connect with (which Scott & Co accomplish greatly). One cannot do without the other. And it's precisely this aspect that I worry Dune might not pull off. It will look the part but it will be let down by characters that just don't do it for me. I'm saying this because it seems to be trend with me and Villeneuve. Your mileage may vary, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Jay said: Prisoners was one hell of a film So was Blade Runner 2049. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 Just now, Stefancos said: So was Blade Runner 2049. Have you even seen Prisoners, Steef? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,508 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 40 minutes ago, Alexcremers said: You are right, the design of Alien is extremely important. But like I said, Thor, it's the combination of creating a convincing place (which Scott & Co accomplish greatly) inhabited with characters that you connect with (which Scott & Co accomplish greatly). One cannot do without the other. And it's precisely this aspect that I worry Dune might not pull off. It will look the part but it will be let down by characters that just don't do it for me. I'm saying this because it seems to be trend with me and Villeneuve. Your mileage may vary, of course. I'll give you that the characters (and the way they are portrayed) are one out of the four crucial elements in the film. But it's by no means the most important; more like a stepping-stone to attack the perils and symbolism, really. The film's value and place in history come from a completely different place. Here's my article again -- Google-translated -- and although there's some weird translations going on here, it gets the point across. I like a good story and well-rounded characters like everyone else, but my main attraction to film as a medium is its audiovisual potential; its ability to communicate ideas strictly through visuals and sound. ALIEN is a perfect example of that, and I'm sure Denis Villeneuve's DUNE will be another. Time will tell. I'm confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 Your film list of visual experiences will certainly be longer than mine. Take for example the female replicant killer villain in BR 2049, compare her to the replicants of Blade Runner. and you realize how bland she is. And then there's her dialog: "I win! I'm the best!" Ugh ... Things like that make sure that I keep my distance, even though it's just a character in a visual spectacle. Characters, dialog, the direction, the visuals, the music ... it all has to come together or one can drag the others down. That's why the truly great movies are in short supply. Okay, Thor, in your defence, I think I may have found another movie, besides 2001: ASO, where it's purely (unlike Alien) about vision and for the viewer to 'experience' that vision: When talking about that movie, you don't really mention the characters, you talk about the execution. You can replace the actors and nobody would complain. It's a Julie Taymor trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,198 Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 7 hours ago, Alexcremers said: Well, that's probably the only sci-fi film, that I can think of, where it's all successfully about the movie itself and not the characters. But even here, I have to say that David Bowman is an irreplaceable and iconic character. The movie would be less great without him, IMO. Irreplaceable and iconic as an actor. But Bowman is absolutely a non-character to me, to such an extent that I can't think of any other film, not even a bad one, that has a protagonist who feels so completely removed and unrelateable. 10 hours ago, Disco Stu said: Prisoners was the one with Jackman and Gyllenhaal, right? Yeah I thought it was gripping and brilliant. Yes. And it also features brilliant cinematography by Deakins, which surprised me at the time, because it's not the type of film (or even style, really) where I'd have expected it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted December 14, 2019 Author Share Posted December 14, 2019 6 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: Irreplaceable and iconic as an actor. But Bowman is absolutely a non-character to me, to such an extent that I can't think of any other film, not even a bad one, that has a protagonist who feels so completely removed and unrelateable. Well, that's why HAL is more human than the humans, Marian. Bowman had to be emotionless, someone who has everything under control, an übermens, someone who is ready to become the next step in evolution, but underneath that all, if you look carefully, you can still see the emotions being contained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,198 Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 You don't have to look that carefully. But that doesn't make him a character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted December 14, 2019 Author Share Posted December 14, 2019 He's not a character to you, that is. As to why, I can only guess. To me, he is, and a very interesting and unique one at that, just like the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 Meanwhile Villeuve is named 'Best Filmmaker Of The Decade' by the Hollywood Critics Association: https://twitter.com/LAOFCS/status/1204887737825816576/photo/1 Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 https://movieweb.com/dune-remake-teaser-poster-behind-the-scenes-images/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Nothing really new there, Alex. And that is not even a teaser poster, just something that was used in a trade show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Romão said: Nothing really new there, Alex. The photos are not new? Maybe I overlooked them. Anyway, it seems that Villeneuve's Dune takes place in the same universe as Indiana Jones. But we probably already talked about that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothless 964 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Alexcremers said: The photos are not new? Maybe I overlooked them. Anyway, it seems that Villeneuve's Dune takes place in the same universe as Indiana Jones. But we probably already talked about that too. Funny I just watched this Indiana Jones last night hahaha _deleted_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Alexcremers said: The photos are not new? Maybe I overlooked them. Anyway, it seems that Villeneuve's Dune takes place in the same universe as Indiana Jones. But we probably already talked about that too. 1 hour ago, toothless said: Funny I just watched this Indiana Jones last night hahaha Typical western ignorance to associate Raqmu, a site that has stood for thousands if years with a Hollywood's movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Shit. Never when I read the Dune novels did I envision Sietch Tabr as being Petra. I would have thought the Fremen would want to stay hidden, not build a lavish front door that announces where they live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Well, they are space muslims after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Eh, they are space nomads that settled in the desert thousands of years ago, worship giant worms, conserve water, and are waiting for a messiah. They are space Jews. Lol, j/k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Muslims are also waiting for Messiah. In fact, the very same one as the Christian Messiah. Anyway, it seems odd to me that Petra, such a well-known and iconic real-world location, should have anything to do with Dune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 They will cover it with CGI and you wont recognise it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 6 hours ago, Alexcremers said: The photos are not new? Maybe I overlooked them. Anyway, it seems that Villeneuve's Dune takes place in the same universe as Indiana Jones. But we probably already talked about that too. That's not a set photo, that's just Jason Mamoa doing some turism in the area (the film was shot in Jordan) and posting some photos. No set photos have leaked so far. Petra will no be featured in the film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 The article is wrong then. Anyway, it's a relief, because camels and Petra don't belong in the Dune universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Camels don't belong in Australia either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 Camels started in America and ended up in Africa. Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothless 964 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 5 hours ago, Stefancos said: Typical western ignorance to associate Raqmu, a site that has stood for thousands if years with a Hollywood's movie. I did not associate anything. Just said I watched a movie last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I actually even dislike it in Last Crusade. It takes a lot of the mystical edge off the Temple of the Sun when it's literally just the iconic Petra, your neighbour's been there on holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 It was mystical to me at the age of 10. Mission accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Holko said: It takes a lot of the mystical edge off the Temple of the Sun when it's literally just the iconic Petra, your neighbour's been there on holiday. I get it (Petra is maybe five hours drive from my home) but it’s really not an issue with me. Plus, you gotta love the kind of unashamed David Lean tribute that is The Last Crusade: from Venice - straight out of Summertime - to Petra, which Lean wanted to shot a scene of Lawrence at, but couldn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post A24 4,338 Posted January 31, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2020 Dune logo font looks cool. The Illustrious Jerry, crumbs, Yavar Moradi and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Ooh. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 That doesn't spell Dune! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,465 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 What is Dunc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 The first symbol isn't a D! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,465 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 So it's more of a )un( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 Creative people get it immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I love when minimalism gets it so right that I'm just left wondering how much of it is by complete accident (or luck) and how much is genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,198 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 UUUU Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 See each letter is a sand dune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 The full version that was shown (and taken down in the meantime), had an extra eye or planet element on the last letter, making the spelling of Dune much more obvious. This a recreation of what was shown: Muad'Dib 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,465 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I wish Zimmer's score to be more like a 70s progressive rock song, full of these spacey guitars and synths: But I guess we'll probably get the exotic parts of Gladiator mixed with Inception BAAAAUMS or whatever. Maybe the wailing woman trend will make its glorious return exactly 20 years later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 20 minutes ago, Edmilson said: But I guess we'll probably get the exotic parts of Gladiator mixed with Inception BAAAAUMS or whatever. Maybe the wailing woman trend will make its glorious return? Please, no more wailing woman! Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Agreed. I really hope this will be more like Interstellar than Gladiator. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I hope it'll be unlike either of those! Start the new decade off with another trendsetter, something kinda new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zimmer 211 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Chen G. said: Please, no more wailing woman! Wailing man it is. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: I really hope this will be more like Interstellar than Gladiator. I really like Gladiator, and especially Lisa Gerard's contributions to that score. Its more the stream of copycats that followed that I don't like. 1 hour ago, Lord Zimmer said: Wailing man it is. I believe that was done, too, although I can't remember where. Yared's Troy, perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,465 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Chen G. said: I believe that was done, too, although I can't remember where. Yared's Troy, perhaps? Maybe the Navajo voices from Horner's Windtalkers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 8 hours ago, Chen G. said: I believe that was done, too, although I can't remember where. Yared's Troy, perhaps? Not to reduce Fateh Ali Khan’s thunderous voice to “wailing”, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Did Demi Roussous wail on the blade Runner score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 994 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Did Demi Roussous wail on the blade Runner score? I don't know if it counts as wailing, but he definitely goes full on ham in "Tales of the Future." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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