Chen G. 4,011 Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 18 minutes ago, Bilbo said: I haven't seen the full film, only caught a bit of it on telly this afternoon but it's a gorgeous looking film. It ought to be, it was David Lean and Freddie Young's return to 65mm, after having shot Doctor Zhivago on 35mm. Combine that with the Irish countryside, and you're bound to get something exquisite-looking. But the story just isn't that interesting, not for the 140 minutes it should be; not for the 206 minutes (!) that it currently is, and certainly not for the 223 minutes (!!) it originally was. Its really no different to Doctor Zhivago in that the scale just isn't conducive for the story. Lean pulled this aesthetic back for A Passage to India, but - for some odd reason - film's still a bore. Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,697 Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 A PASSAGE TO INDIA a bore? Really?! It's an exquisite film, adapted from what I consider to be the finest novel, written in the English language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,011 Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 I don't know why. It had all the markings of something I'll enjoy immensly: more scaled-back than Lean's previous efforts, with a subject matter very much up his alley (not to mention my own!) with regards to clashing cultures, exotic setting and so on; great talent attached. Certainly, the craft of it was very good. I was really enjoying it for the first hour or so. But then, slowly but surely, I felt the movie was starting to bore me. I don't quite know why, and I wish it hadn't: but it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Chen G. said: Great-looking film. But for me, it unfortunately joins the "bore" camp with all of Lean's post-Lawrence epics, even in its current, truncated form. And the one thing movies should never do is bore. Certainly didn't deserve the ribbing Lean got for it, though. Its the same shtick Lean pulled of with Doctor Zhivago. 3 hours ago, Chen G. said: It ought to be, it was David Lean and Freddie Young's return to 65mm, after having shot Doctor Zhivago on 35mm. Combine that with the Irish countryside, and you're bound to get something exquisite-looking. But the story just isn't that interesting, not for the 140 minutes it should be; not for the 206 minutes (!) that it currently is, and certainly not for the 223 minutes (!!) it originally was. Its really no different to Doctor Zhivago in that the scale just isn't conducive for the story. Lean pulled this aesthetic back for A Passage to India, but - for some odd reason - film's still a bore. Shame. I think Ryan's Daughter is definitely a masterpiece. I think the two most deried aspects are its strengths - the score and the screenplay. I won't spoil it for those who haven't seen it but it achieves the perfect balance of tragedy. You see two separate plots unfolding over the course of the film. They intersect suddenly and surprisingly in a single moment that crystallizes the entire story and takes your breath away. It is also a female story. Sure it is big, but it is also deeply felt and explores the characters' inner lives. A Passage To India I am less fond of. That I think IS perhaps more spectacle than character exploration. But on the principles of film-making alone THAT also is a very well made film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,364 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Always enjoyed A Passage To India. So it explores "the spectacle"? I didn't know that. Must revise my opinion then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,011 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Yeah, its really doesn't make a spectacle of the landscape nearly as often as Lean's previous epics, which I suppose accounts in some part as to why I found it a diminished experience. I don't necessarily view Lean's vistas as overburdening the narrative: its more Robert Bolt's excessive plotting, and Lean's refusal to streamline it in the editing bay. Its why I find Lawrence of Arabia better paced than Doctor Zhivago, even though technically the former takes more time to tell less plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,364 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Yeah, its really doesn't make a spectacle of the landscape nearly as often as Lean's previous epics, which I suppose accounts in some part as to why I found it a diminished experience. I don't necessarily view Lean's vistas as overburdening the narrative It's been awhile since I've seen Ryan's Daughter but I remember an endless but spectacular storm sequence, spectacular landscapes and a spectacularly beautiful bus scene. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,011 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 I was talking about A Passage to India. There's definitely less showing off of beautiful landscapes in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,364 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 I know. I think that A Passage To India is very much a journey exploring conflicting cultures, colonialism and the impact of the social class system. It's very 'lively' which is quite unusual for David Lean but very typical for E.M. Forster (Howard's End, A Room With A View). I suspect there was a change in Lean's style and that he avoided long, slow, spectacular landscape shots because the critics had completely crushed his previous film (Ryan's Daughter). Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,011 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Oh absolutely, but - while I don't want another Ryan's Daughter - I don't think the absence of those landscape shots necessarily helped the film. Plus, the conflict that arises in the film's second half just isn't as strong as I expected, given the long wait. I guess it doesn't measure up compared to the other Lean epics, which are all at least set in war-time. I suppose I wanted more of Indianas rioting and more of the trial, rather than have Mrs. Quested suddenly have a change of heart. Plus, the whole scenario surrounding the accusation really doesn't work visually: you just know Aziz didn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,364 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Plus, the whole scenario surrounding the accusation really doesn't work visually: you just know Aziz didn't do it. I don't think E.M. Forster was very interested in a 'did he or did he not do it' type of situation, Chen. It's not a crime movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,011 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 I wouldn't know, but I think it would have brought a bit more tension to the film. The situation is just too surreal, and it makes Mrs. Quested seem like an absolute moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,227 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 Some people are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,364 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I wouldn't know, but I think it would have brought a bit more tension to the film. The situation is just too surreal, and it makes Mrs. Quested seem like an absolute moron. There is tension, the tension of injustice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Chen G. said: Yeah, its really doesn't make a spectacle of the landscape nearly as often as Lean's previous epics, which I suppose accounts in some part as to why I found it a diminished experience. I don't necessarily view Lean's vistas as overburdening the narrative: its more Robert Bolt's excessive plotting, and Lean's refusal to streamline it in the editing bay. Its why I find Lawrence of Arabia better paced than Doctor Zhivago, even though technically the former takes more time to tell less plot. I actually think Dhivago is a pretty bad film. I loved the book but the movie didn't work for me at all. The book is very delicate. The movie is overwrought. I think Zhivago foregrounds the spectacle and makes some very ordinary plotting choices. The book is way more nuanced. I literally think they got it all wrong and someone should try to do a proper adaptation. 32 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Oh absolutely, but - while I don't want another Ryan's Daughter - I don't think the absence of those landscape shots necessarily helped the film. Plus, the conflict that arises in the film's second half just isn't as strong as I expected, given the long wait. I guess it doesn't measure up compared to the other Lean epics, which are all at least set in war-time. I suppose I wanted more of Indianas rioting and more of the trial, rather than have Mrs. Quested suddenly have a change of heart. Plus, the whole scenario surrounding the accusation really doesn't work visually: you just know Aziz didn't do it. 24 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I wouldn't know, but I think it would have brought a bit more tension to the film. The situation is just too surreal, and it makes Mrs. Quested seem like an absolute moron. I think that's the central idea of the film. And the book. Even in the book the 'event' happens offstage which casts the entire book in ambiguity. I think Forster definitely summons a modicum for sympathy and understanding for Adela. Lean tries his best as well. The conceit is very much what you have in some art films, where a major event happens offscreen. Like the disappearence in L'Avventura or Clouds of Sils Maria or Picnic at hanging Rock. I actually think it is the most interesting narrative device in the movie/film. Without it both would be rather ordinary period narratives of culture clash. The choice to use this central trigger incident that happens offstage is the thing that sets the novel/film apart. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,011 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 I wouldn't know about bad, but I certainly don't like Doctor Zhivago. Has a lot of impressive artistry - as you come to expect from Lean - and its admirably darker than a lot of the big-screen epics of the time. But I just don't feel the central romance: Zhivago and Lara take too long to meet in any meaningful way, and once they do - their feelings for each other are told, not shown, through a letter of Zhivago's; and one sent to his wife, of all people. The heroes of Lean's previous epics were "nuts" - Nicholson with his obsession for military discipline, and Lawrence with his sadistic impulses. Zhivago is just an ordinary bloke... before he suddenly starts cheating on his wife (with whom he has a much more beliveable relationship, I may add) and the mother of his children. From that point on, he can rot in the Gulag for all I care. The framing device feels like Robert Bolt lazily recycling the concept from Lawrence of Arabia. But where that film's framing device was succint, largely silent and generated a lot of intrigue regarding the main character (and serves as a source of great irony in hindsight), here its overly-wordy and serves as the source for some really strangely-placed episodes of voiceover during the bulk of the film. Even in terms of spectacle, there's just too much plot for Lean to really use the landscapes - spectacular though they may be - like he does in Lawrence of Arabia. Even in terms of photography, Lean originally wanted it shot in 65mm black-and-white, but eventually settled for 35mm, so the film lacks the timeless clarity of Lawrence of Arabia and Ryan's Daughter. The score's great, but Lean tracked one variation of Lara's theme and smothered the entire picture with it, killing it through over-exposure. 23 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: The conceit is very much what you have in some art films, where a major event happens offscreen. Like the disappearence in L'Avventura or Clouds of Sils Maria or Picnic at hanging Rock. But it doesn't happen offscreen: not really, anyway. We do see some strange scene in which the echoes make Adela faint. I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying it. Knowing Aziz' character, too, you just know he didn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 23 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I wouldn't know about bad, but I certainly don't like Doctor Zhivago. Has a lot of impressive artistry - as you come to expect from Lean - and its admirably darker than a lot of the big-screen epics of the time. But I just don't feel the central romance: Zhivago and Lara take too long to meet in any meaningful way, and once they do - their feelings for each other are told, not shown, through a letter of Zhivago's; and one sent to his wife, of all people. The heroes of Lean's previous epics were "nuts" - Nicholson with his obsession for military discipline, and Lawrence with his sadistic impulses. Zhivago is just an ordinary bloke... before he suddenly starts cheating on his wife (with whom he has a much more beliveable relationship, I may add) and the mother of his children. From that point on, he can rot in the Gulag for all I care. The framing device feels like Robert Bolt lazily recycling the concept from Lawrence of Arabia. But where that film's framing device was succint, largely silent and generated a lot of intrigue regarding the main character (and serves as a source of great irony in hindsight), here its overly-wordy and serves as the source for some really strangely-placed episodes of voiceover during the bulk of the film. Even in terms of spectacle, there's just too much plot for Lean to really use the landscapes - spectacular though they may be - like he does in Lawrence of Arabia. Even in terms of photography, Lean originally wanted it shot in 65mm black-and-white, but eventually settled for 35mm, so the film lacks the timeless clarity of Lawrence of Arabia and Ryan's Daughter. The score's great, but Lean tracked one variation of Lara's theme and smothered the entire picture with it, killing it through over-exposure. But it doesn't happen offscreen: not really, anyway. We do see some strange scene in which the echoes make Adela faint. I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying it. Knowing Aziz' character, too, you just know he didn't do it. I read the book years ago so my memory is foggy. But I think it was more uncertain in the book. It all kind of is a catostrophic misunderstanding which is one way to categorize many major historical conflict. I think the opaqueness lends moral intrigue to a relatively straightforward premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,504 Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 One of my favorite all-time shot from a movie, is the scene in which we see that Tom Cruise is circumsized in All The Right Moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,276 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 On 8/10/2019 at 4:47 PM, Bilbo said: I was in that exact place two weeks ago. Absolutely stunning locale. Skelling Michael (aka Ahch-To island from the new Star Wars trilogy) is just off the right side of the shot, in the horizon Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Romão said: I was in that exact place two weeks ago. Absolutely stunning locale. Skelling Michael (aka Ahch-To island from the new Star Wars trilogy) is just off the right side of the shot, in the horizon County Kerry is one of if not the most beautiful locations in all of Europe. Gorgeous on a nice day, dramatic and moody on a bad one. Great place to visit. Bespin and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 I concur! Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,240 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marian Schedenig 8,240 Posted August 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 16, 2019 The Illustrious Jerry, TheUlyssesian and A24 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,697 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Allen's magnum opus! Every one a winner! The shot of the bridge is breathtaking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,240 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 I love how in many scenes, the actual object of interest is pushed to the very edge of the wide cinemascope frame. Or how in the finale more than half of each shot is filled with the blurred backside of a head, with the action confined to a square area on one side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,364 Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 6 hours ago, Richard said: Allen's magnum opus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,697 Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: I love how in many scenes, the actual object of interest is pushed to the very edge of the wide cinemascope frame. Or how in the finale more than half of each shot is filled with the blurred backside of a head, with the action confined to a square area on one side. Yes, you're right. I never noticed that, before. 38 minutes ago, Alexcremers said: That's two things that we agree on, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,504 Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 Nice shot for a Marvel movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,595 Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 This one alway really impresses me. Even when simply listening to the score on its own like today. Chen G. and Quintus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493 Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 This shot from Generations is so cool because you see the lighting from "outside" in the Enterprise hallway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 North by Northwest Marian Schedenig and TheUlyssesian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,595 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493 Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 A couple of beauts from There Will Be Blood. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 big mood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Forgive the incorrect aspect ratio, but this shot is one of the most beautiful moments in On Her Majesty's Secret Service. A ray of sunshine after Bond's difficult escape. SteveMc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,697 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Hey, @pixie_twinkle! Long time, dude! Nice to see you, again Yes, it's a great shot. The one shot in OHMSS that always amazed me, is when Bond opens the blinds, and looks out of his room, at Piz Gloria, to see a helicopter go by. Stunning. Hunt did things with the camera, that had never been attempted, and that were never tried, again. SteveMc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,240 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,364 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 There's some mighty cinematography in Casino. Of course, it looks better when you include the black bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493 Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 Looks best in letterbox on a Sony Trinitron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,240 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Whatever became of Jan de Bont? And why are there so few uncropped stills from this on the net? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: Whatever became of Jan de Bont? Sadly, be became a director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,697 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 DIE HARD 2, anyone? Thought not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,396 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 That was Renny Harlin. De Bont scored a hit with Speed, but from what I recall it didn't go well after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I still have all the magazine articles from 1994 about his unproduced Godzilla movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,396 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Was that what eventually led to the Emmerich/Matthew Broderick one? Just wondering, seeing as it came along 4 years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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