Jay 39,429 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 For those of you who want to discuss spoilers, do so here. Don't post any spoilers into the old TROS thread at all. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 10,231 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Bit late for that, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,739 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 I hear that Kylo Ren spares Leia but then Snoke kills her. And later Rey kills Snoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 10,426 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Well, thanks a whole bunch, for spoiling it, fo- ah! Just saw the title of this thread. See you sometime in December! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrbellamy 6,755 Posted October 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 27, 2019 Do you guys think Luke will take the lightsaber? Chen G., crumbs, Will and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,622 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Of course! What he'll proceed to do with it is anybody's guess, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,357 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 @Jay just a heads up- the thread title says The Last Jedi, which came out in December 2017. It should say The Rise of Skywalker, coming out this December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,429 Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Train Station 8,674 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Why is the opening crawl always yellow but the end credits is always blue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dutton 7,378 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Now that Disney has absorbed FOX, will they return the FOX fanfare to the SW movies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Train Station 8,674 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Why is the Lucasfilm logo smaller on the anthology movies to the regular episodes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,362 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Thekthithm said: Why is the opening crawl always yellow but the end credits is always blue? Because the ocean is blue, and Daisy Ridley would make a great mermaid. The Train Station 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,159 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Thekthithm said: Why is the Lucasfilm logo smaller on the anthology movies to the regular episodes? Because the logo was trying to back away into the distance, trying to disassociate itself from those films... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,235 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Han dies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Train Station 8,674 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 No wai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,362 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Samuel L. Jackson gets eaten by a shark. Bayesian and _deleted_ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,739 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Darth Sidious is Emperor Palpatine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Train Station 8,674 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: Darth Sidious is Emperor Palpatine Not according to the TPM novelisation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo 297 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 What is this thread. I'm equal parts confused and disappointed. I want to know if the Ewoks help the gang defeat the evil First Order and restore peace to the galaxy. Ii2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Reger 3,609 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 5,297 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 At this point you kind of have to bring Anakin back. I mean, Kylo is obsessed with him, trying to emulate him, collecting his charred gear. Not having Anakin come in to smack some sense into him would be a crime! Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dutton 7,378 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Marvel? What in the fuck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,622 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 5 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: Not having Anakin come in to smack some sense into him would be a crime! Why should someone smack sense into Kylo? Is he not now in a point where he is beyond reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Manakin Skywalker 5,297 Posted October 31, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2019 44 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Why should someone smack sense into Kylo? Is he not now in a point where he is beyond reason? Anakin is now a ghost. He doesn't need to eat or sleep or go to the bathroom. He can literally harass Kylo 24/7 to the point of driving him insane. Sunshine Reger, Pieter Boelen and _deleted_ 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,159 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 No, he will be redeemed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dutton 7,378 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 23 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: Anakin is now a ghost. He doesn't need to eat or sleep or go to the bathroom. He can literally harass Kylo 24/7 to the point of driving him insane. Know this. This creature is the bringer of death. He will never eat, he will never sleep and he will never stop. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Train Station 8,674 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 How'd his lifesaver turn blue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,755 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Chen G. said: Why should someone smack sense into Kylo? Is he not now in a point where he is beyond reason? That’s just what they want you to think! Nah bro’s the last Skywalker descendant, even if it’s ham-fisted they’ll turn him around. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,622 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Arpy said: No, he will be redeemed. If he will (which I'm hoping JJ Abrams is above doing) than fuck The Rise of Skywalker, and the sequel trilogy. Its trite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,755 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Whatever. I’ll probably go along with it, JJ Abrams is capable of an entertaining movie. It’s just Star Wars. Only the music matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 5,297 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Arpy said: No, he will be redeemed. That's what I meant by "insane". Not literally insane, but driving him insane to the point that he rethinks his life or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Train Station 8,674 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 He'll have to go home and rethink his life. Kasey Kockroach and Giftheck 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,159 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: That's what I meant by "insane". Not literally insane, but driving him insane to the point that he rethinks his life or something. I was responding to Chen, but by the time I posted, you had commented. Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,622 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, mrbellamy said: Whatever. I’ll probably go along with it. Why?! Why go along with such a trite, deriviative and morally-reprehensible ending to the trilogy? "Its okay to perform patricide, attempt avunculcide, order the execution of multiple innocent lives, slaughter dozens of teenage students of said uncle, wage a destructive war against the democratic government - if you end up doing one good thing to rinse all those deeds with." Bullshit. I'd be like giving Voldemort or Sauron a redemption arc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Reger 3,609 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,755 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 22 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Why?! Why go along with such a trite, deriviative and morally-reprehensible ending to the trilogy? "Its okay to perform patricide, attempt avunculcide, order the execution of multiple innocent lives, slaughter dozens of teenage students of said uncle, wage a destructive war against the democratic government - if you end up doing one good thing to rinse all those deeds with." Bullshit. I'd be like giving Voldemort or Sauron a redemption arc. Or Darth Vader. It depends on what redemption for Kylo Ren can ever mean in the end. He could bring down the First Order or the Emperor, or save Rey, even with selfish motives. If he ends the saga living a peaceful life on a farm with Rey and their kiddos which is the “rehabilitative justice” Reylos want then JJ’s lost his feckin marbles like the rest of em. But it’ll be scored well... Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,622 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Even if his redemption is his dying act, I won't find it fulfilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,159 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Conversely, how will you find it fulfilling for Kylo Ren to not have a redemption arc? The Reylo connection is the biggest hint at this turn for Rise of Skywalker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 5,297 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Kylo is now the only living Skywalker in the "Skywalker Saga". For him to not be redeemed would just be plain silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,622 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 16 minutes ago, Arpy said: The Reylo connection is the biggest hint at this turn for Rise of Skywalker. The Reylo connection in The Last Jedi ends with Rey literally and figuratively shutting the door on Kylo. She has given up on him, and the rightly. 4 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: Kylo is now the only living Skywalker in the "Skywalker Saga". The characters aren't the throughline of the series: the central conflict is. It doesn't matter who's a Skywalker and who isn't. What matters is that, by the end, The First Order (as a continuation of the Empire) and Kylo are both defeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,159 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 For what, though? The characters are the throughline, as are the familial ties. 3 minutes ago, Chen G. said: The Reylo connection in The Last Jedi ends with Rey literally and figuratively shutting the door on Kylo. She has given up on him, and the rightly. Will she give up on him completely? She knows he's conflicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,622 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 He's not conflicted: he never was. He was feigning conflict so as to get her to help him overthrow Snoke. Certainly, by the end of The Last Jedi, Kylo has no internal conflict anymore: he orders no quarter, and he attempts to kill Luke without much hesitance, not to mention proclaiming that he'll destory Luke and Rey "and all of it." That's his arc in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,159 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 He's definitely still conflicted! I guess we'll have to see how he's portrayed in this film... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,622 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Not at the end of the film he's not. If Abrams goes another way with him, it'll be a cop-out from the traejectory set by The Last Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,159 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Chen, you belong in the Disenchantment Thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,755 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 14 minutes ago, Chen G. said: He's not conflicted: he never was. He was feigning conflict so as to get her to help him overthrow Snoke. Certainly, by the end of The Last Jedi, Kylo has no internal conflict anymore: he orders no quarter, and he attempts to kill Luke without much hesitance, not to mention proclaiming that he'll destory Luke and Rey "and all of it." That's his arc in the film. To which Luke shuts his butt down...the film implies that Luke knows better. At the end when Rey closes the door and the dice disappear, there’s sadness in Driver’s performance, the way Johnson frames him, how it’s scored. He’s at an emotional low point at the end of TLJ despite a strategic victory. Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,622 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Its an emotional low to the audience, seeing that this character has now fallen completely. Evil is sad; its pitiful. Doesn't make it any less evil. Arpy and Pieter Boelen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,159 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I don't think his actions are excusable, but if he commits an act which saves the Resistance, and destroys the First Order, it would still be an act of good. Ben has always been conflicted in these films because he has no autonomy, no direction; he's essentially playing a character in that of the Knights of Ren and of course, in homage to his idol and idealised father-figure Darth Vader. In his mind, Luke's actions spoiled his trust in one Skywalker, leading him to find it in both the Dark Side and another Skywalker - the original. The Dark Side and Snoke offered him a path where he wasn't fuelled by pure rage, but tamed and controlled, yet he still has those unbreakable familial ties which are tugging at him. In TFA he must confront his father one last time and murder him. It didn't seem like he was feigning the weight of the act, he was well and truly conflicted there and severing that tie wasn't enough as Snoke had obviously hoped. It's why I think his connection with Rey isn't merely a ploy (although it was setup that way) it was Ben seeing someone who is without the burden of familial ties, with raw power with the force but someone with a clear and pure sense of direction who is conflicted like him. It's not surprising that connection is nearly severed when Rey refuses to join him, because he's still ensnared by the Dark Side and his own selfish ambitions, whereas Rey doesn't know or want that power and is still discovering her own identity. She's not assuming identities like Kylo Ren does essentially wearing a mask. I think there will be some form of redemption, @Chen G., because it's a natural part of his character's evolution, and he's so intrinsic to the plot of these films that to have him become the villain after all this conflict, both internal and external, would in my mind be the real cop-out. Also, the return of the Emperor, the singular force of pure evil in the saga, can't be outpaced or matched, you can't be more wholesomely evil, and if Kylo Ren's ambitions are to fill those shoes and take that throne, he would need to first overthrow Palpatine. To not have history repeat itself, I'm sure Kylo wouldn't be another lackey for another shadowy figure. In this film, I think we'll see just how far he can get before coming into conflict with Palpatine's plans and realising his true destiny (if he has one)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,456 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 7 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said: Know this. This creature is the bringer of death. He will never eat, he will never sleep and he will never stop. Jack Bauer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Train Station 8,674 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 7 hours ago, mrbellamy said: Or Darth Vader. It depends on what redemption for Kylo Ren can ever mean in the end. He could bring down the First Order or the Emperor, or save Rey, even with selfish motives. If he ends the saga living a peaceful life on a farm with Rey and their kiddos which is the “rehabilitative justice” Reylos want then JJ’s lost his feckin marbles like the rest of em. But it’ll be scored well... He'll sell his kids for drinking money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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