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The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread

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For those of you who want to discuss spoilers, do so here. Don't post any spoilers into the old TROS thread at all. 

 

Thank you! 

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3 hours ago, Thekthithm said:

Why is the Lucasfilm logo smaller on the anthology movies to the regular episodes?

Because the logo was trying to back away into the distance, trying to disassociate itself from those films...

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23 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Anakin is now a ghost. He doesn't need to eat or sleep or go to the bathroom. He can literally harass Kylo 24/7 to the point of driving him insane.

 

Know this. This creature is the bringer of death. He will never eat, he will never sleep and he will never stop.

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2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Why should someone smack sense into Kylo? Is he not now in a point where he is beyond reason?

 

That’s just what they want you to think!

 

Nah bro’s the last Skywalker descendant, even if it’s ham-fisted they’ll turn him around.

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7 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

That's what I meant by "insane". Not literally insane, but driving him insane to the point that he rethinks his life or something.

I was responding to Chen, but by the time I posted, you had commented. :)

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21 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

Whatever. I’ll probably go along with it.

 

Why?! Why go along with such a trite, deriviative and morally-reprehensible ending to the trilogy?

 

"Its okay to perform patricide, attempt avunculcide, order the execution of multiple innocent lives, slaughter dozens of teenage students of said uncle, wage a destructive war against the democratic government - if you end up doing one good thing to rinse all those deeds with."

 

Bullshit.

 

I'd be like giving Voldemort or Sauron a redemption arc.

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33 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 It’s just Star Wars. Only the music matters.

This.

2 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Anakin is now a ghost. He doesn't need to eat or sleep or go to the bathroom. He can literally harass Kylo 24/7 to the point of driving him insane.

19th to mid-20th century writers would literally use him like that. 

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22 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Why?! Why go along with such a trite, deriviative and morally-reprehensible ending to the trilogy?

 

"Its okay to perform patricide, attempt avunculcide, order the execution of multiple innocent lives, slaughter dozens of teenage students of said uncle, wage a destructive war against the democratic government - if you end up doing one good thing to rinse all those deeds with."

 

Bullshit.

 

I'd be like giving Voldemort or Sauron a redemption arc.

 

Or Darth Vader.

 

It depends on what redemption for Kylo Ren can ever mean in the end. He could bring down the First Order or the Emperor, or save Rey, even with selfish motives. 

 

If he ends the saga living a peaceful life on a farm with Rey and their kiddos which is the “rehabilitative justice” Reylos want then JJ’s lost his feckin marbles like the rest of em. But it’ll be scored well...

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16 minutes ago, Arpy said:

The Reylo connection is the biggest hint at this turn for Rise of Skywalker.

 

The Reylo connection in The Last Jedi ends with Rey literally and figuratively shutting the door on Kylo.

 

She has given up on him, and the rightly.

 

4 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Kylo is now the only living Skywalker in the "Skywalker Saga".

 

The characters aren't the throughline of the series: the central conflict is. It doesn't matter who's a Skywalker and who isn't. What matters is that, by the end, The First Order (as a continuation of the Empire) and Kylo are both defeated.

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For what, though? The characters are the throughline, as are the familial ties.

 

3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

The Reylo connection in The Last Jedi ends with Rey literally and figuratively shutting the door on Kylo.

She has given up on him, and the rightly.

Will she give up on him completely? She knows he's conflicted.

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He's not conflicted: he never was. He was feigning conflict so as to get her to help him overthrow Snoke.

 

Certainly, by the end of The Last Jedi, Kylo has no internal conflict anymore: he orders no quarter, and he attempts to kill Luke without much hesitance, not to mention proclaiming that he'll destory Luke and Rey "and all of it." That's his arc in the film.

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14 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

He's not conflicted: he never was. He was feigning conflict so as to get her to help him overthrow Snoke.

 

Certainly, by the end of The Last Jedi, Kylo has no internal conflict anymore: he orders no quarter, and he attempts to kill Luke without much hesitance, not to mention proclaiming that he'll destory Luke and Rey "and all of it." That's his arc in the film.

 

To which Luke shuts his butt down...the film implies that Luke knows better. At the end when Rey closes the door and the dice disappear, there’s sadness in Driver’s performance, the way Johnson frames him, how it’s scored. He’s at an emotional low point at the end of TLJ despite a strategic victory. 

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I don't think his actions are excusable, but if he commits an act which saves the Resistance, and destroys the First Order, it would still be an act of good. 

 

Ben has always been conflicted in these films because he has no autonomy, no direction; he's essentially playing a character in that of the Knights of Ren and of course, in homage to his idol and idealised father-figure Darth Vader. In his mind, Luke's actions spoiled his trust in one Skywalker, leading him to find it in both the Dark Side and another Skywalker - the original. The Dark Side and Snoke offered him a path where he wasn't fuelled by pure rage, but tamed and controlled, yet he still has those unbreakable familial ties which are tugging at him. In TFA he must confront his father one last time and murder him. It didn't seem like he was feigning the weight of the act, he was well and truly conflicted there and severing that tie wasn't enough as Snoke had obviously hoped. It's why I think his connection with Rey isn't merely a ploy (although it was setup that way) it was Ben seeing someone who is without the burden of familial ties, with raw power with the force but someone with a clear and pure sense of direction who is conflicted like him. It's not surprising that connection is nearly severed when Rey refuses to join him, because he's still ensnared by the Dark Side and his own selfish ambitions, whereas Rey doesn't know or want that power and is still discovering her own identity. She's not assuming identities like Kylo Ren does essentially wearing a mask. 

 

I think there will be some form of redemption, @Chen G., because it's a natural part of his character's evolution, and he's so intrinsic to the plot of these films that to have him become the villain after all this conflict, both internal and external, would in my mind be the real cop-out. Also, the return of the Emperor, the singular force of pure evil in the saga, can't be outpaced or matched, you can't be more wholesomely evil, and if Kylo Ren's ambitions are to fill those shoes and take that throne, he would need to first overthrow Palpatine. To not have history repeat itself, I'm sure Kylo wouldn't be another lackey for another shadowy figure. 

 

In this film, I think we'll see just how far he can get before coming into conflict with Palpatine's plans and realising his true destiny (if he has one)...

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7 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Or Darth Vader.

 

It depends on what redemption for Kylo Ren can ever mean in the end. He could bring down the First Order or the Emperor, or save Rey, even with selfish motives. 

 

If he ends the saga living a peaceful life on a farm with Rey and their kiddos which is the “rehabilitative justice” Reylos want then JJ’s lost his feckin marbles like the rest of em. But it’ll be scored well...

 

He'll sell his kids for drinking money.

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