bollemanneke 3,348 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 Listening to the interview with MM now. Audio quality is, surprisingly, not great, but what an interesting conversation! Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 While working on the isolated score version of "Probing the Basement", I noticed that the track on Disc 1 also has alternate performances of that cue. We knew there were differences between the OST version and the Film Presentation version but here again, it seems like the whole performance from 2:33 to 3:46 (D1T16 times) isn't the one playing in the movie. Like "Red Planet", the take chosen for the OST also plays in the movie. Quick little snippet for comparison: Chewy · Probe - OST Chewy · Probe - Intrada Disc 1 I think this is the first time a MM release has a "Film Score" section presenting some different takes from the ones chosen for the movie. @Jay Do you know the reason Mike would choose different takes for some of these tracks? Those versions were possibly present on the DAT tape that he got from Shawn Murphy and that he used for reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 No DAT tapes for this score, he was given the entire pro tools sessions on hard drives as explained in the liner notes. Not sure which score you're thinking of with DAT tapes. Anyways I couldn't tell you why he chose what he chose, but I'd speculate he wanted to give us the natural un-mucked-with edit of takes initially chosen for every cue before things were fudged for the final film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Might be an instance where JW actually preferred a different take than the one used in the film (now correctly presented on disc 1), and the take used in the film (and album) was actually an alternate/incorrect take. It seems like the ProTools masters were an absolute mess when Mike could finally work with them. Not surprised weird issues like this might have occurred. It's cool that the dual presentations on this release allow Mike to use both versions. Amer and GoodMusician 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 This is all you need from War of the Worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 9 hours ago, Jay said: No DAT tapes for this score, he was given the entire pro tools sessions on hard drives as explained in the liner notes. Not sure which score you're thinking of with DAT tapes. Mike talks about it here: He used a DAT tape for reference, to rebuild the performance edits on the high resolution material. We could assume those different takes were the ones present on this DAT tape and Mike considered them to be the chosen/approved takes. Anyway it's not a big deal, we've got everything spread on two discs anyway. It's always cool though to understand how Mike makes his albums, and that particular thing shows how different the process can be for each score. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 Ah, right! I remember now - it was for reference, not an element used to build anything. So yea, I think he wanted to give us what they originally intended to be used (which the DAT tapes archived, so he could use as a reference to rebuild from the pro tools element instead of giving us a transfer of the DAT). I wonder why a few times for the OST they dumped the final film edits instead of that intended version - maybe it was just a mistake no one caught or something Chewy and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 Here's my alternate program to find a compromise between the qualities of the OST and its weak spots. Prologue (2:56) - The original Prologue without the narration. The Ferry Scene (5:56) - The unedited cue. Woods Walk (4:27) - Woods Walk + Harlan Ogilvy The Intersection Scene (4:21) - The film version with the fade-out from the OST. Escape from the City (4:07) - This one is the OST version, but after the insert at the beginning that is taken from a later section, the cue is unedited as in Driving Away from Trouble. Ray and Rachel (2:41) - The OST arrangement. Escape from the Basket (9:37) - The OST cue combination, however, unedited. Attacking the Car (2:51) - The unedited cue. Refugee Status (3:50) - The OST arrangement. Reaching the Country (3:26) Probing the Basement (4:26) The unedited film version. The Separation of the Family (2:36) - The first version of the Boston finale. The Aliens (3:43) - The Aliens with the end removed + Watch the Lightning Red Planet (4:35) - The OST cue combination (named The Confrontation with Ogilvy), however, unedited. The Return to Boston (4:39)* - The unedited original cue without the inserts. Reunion (4:49) - The fourth version of the Boston finale + Closing Montage Part A + The fifth version of the Boston finale. Epilogue (3:13) - The unedited film version. Total Time: 1:12:13 *I didn't want to break the atmosphere with Closing Montage Part B, so I decided to just get back to a very sceptical note, basically a variation of The Separation of the Family, which leads nicely into the last track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,689 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 I find most of the lower-key material rather boring, so my cut down playlist comprises of: 01 - Prologue.mp3 02 - The Intersection Scene.mp3 03 - Escape From The City.mp3 04 - Reaching The Country.mp3 05 - Ray And Rachel.mp3 06 - The Ferry Attack.mp3 07 - Probing The Basement.mp3 08 - The Reunion.mp3 All of this is from the OST, with 'Prologue' and the end of 'The Reunion' replaced with session material to get rid of narration. It's pretty much the first half of the album - the second half doesn't do anything for me for various reasons, although with JW's classic re-ordering, I get the basement scene from later on. There are bits of some of the other cues that I kind of like, but when I include them, the playlist starts to feel too bulky to me. The Confrontation With Ogilvy gets interesting towards the end - might include it. I find quite a stark contrast between Escape from the City and Attack on the Car - the former is a dynamic and engaging action cue, whereas the latter feels so unstructured to me, and I struggle to picture how it would work in the film. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 I think Atack on the Car is the worst cue in the score, and the most unnecessary - Spielberg was wise to have the scene play unscored Faleel, Brundlefly, Not Mr. Big and 1 other 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,689 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 I think it brings out the worst in JW's bang/crash/stop-start style. There's no structure to it at all. I find parts of The Ferry Scene a little bit like that, but he manages to hold that cue together better with some good ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 33 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: I struggle to picture how it would work in the film. I might help you here Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 Chewy is excellent at picturing stuff. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 Little teaser: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 That worked well to picture! Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 3 hours ago, Richard Penna said: I find most of the lower-key material rather boring, so my cut down playlist comprises of: 01 - Prologue.mp3 02 - The Intersection Scene.mp3 03 - Escape From The City.mp3 04 - Reaching The Country.mp3 05 - Ray And Rachel.mp3 06 - The Ferry Attack.mp3 07 - Probing The Basement.mp3 08 - The Reunion.mp3 All of this is from the OST, with 'Prologue' and the end of 'The Reunion' replaced with session material to get rid of narration. It's pretty much the first half of the album - the second half doesn't do anything for me for various reasons, although with JW's classic re-ordering, I get the basement scene from later on. There are bits of some of the other cues that I kind of like, but when I include them, the playlist starts to feel too bulky to me. The Confrontation With Ogilvy gets interesting towards the end - might include it. I find quite a stark contrast between Escape from the City and Attack on the Car - the former is a dynamic and engaging action cue, whereas the latter feels so unstructured to me, and I struggle to picture how it would work in the film. How do they compare?. My program is from ost. Just now, bruce marshall said: How do they compare?. My program is from ost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,482 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 So I wait for my copy, I've not cheated... As usual, as I don't want to read 21 pages of... of... JWfans-things... I'll just ask clearly... does the Expansion really add more to the "experience"? In other words, is it more an "A.I." WOW essential release, or a "Minority Report" OK one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 I personally feel the new main program is significantly more satisfying than the old OST program. It has a better flow, structure, and pacing, and some of the music JW didn't include on the OST is really cool. That being said, the OST already contained the majority of the score. If you didn't like the score based on listening to that, I don't think the new program will flip anyone over into liking the score. I think it will just make those who already liked the score appreciate it even more - certainly true for me! Bespin and ChrisAfonso 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodMusician 56 Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 On 12/24/2020 at 7:46 AM, crumbs said: An interesting difference is the sessions used the film opening to The Ferry Scene which seems to be tracked from later in the cue. Both versions of The Ferry Scene on the Intrada have the same opening. Just to confirm @Jay, the film version was tracked here? Further evidence the session leak came from edited ProTools sessions, FWIW. I once did a film edit of this scene and If I recall you're exactly right, the music is tracked from later. The hard part was the stretched notes and extensions near the end when they're in the water. Those were tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 6 hours ago, Jay said: I think Atack on the Car is the worst cue in the score, and the most unnecessary - Spielberg was wise to have the scene play unscored It would have completely destroyed the most impressive scene of the whole movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Brundlefly said: It would have completely destroyed the most impressive scene of the whole movie. He deserved to be attacked by an angry mob- he wasn't wearing A MASK ****%=÷÷÷÷*¿°#!####!!!!!!!! * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chewy 2,391 Posted December 30, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 30, 2020 I edited the music so it fits the picture, here is how the car attack scene would have been with the music: Holko, Trope, Amer and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I only heard music starting at 1:40....is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Clean out your ears, the music begins much sooner than that in the video Nice job, Chewy! In isolation, that is effective scoring for that scene. It amps up the tension in a tense scene all the ways a film score is supposed to. When looking at the overall picture though, Spielbeg was wise to have threatening underscore only used for the aliens posing a threat, not fellow man. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I hear it with headphones. Barely audible thru phone speakers. Crowd noise obscures it. I programmed this cue out anyway 9 minutes ago, Jay said: Clean out your ears.. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,689 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Music starts from 0:10. A little quiet at the start, but very audible soon after. I don't think that cue even works in isolation. I struggle to put my finger on what's wrong, but it feels too musical for such a chaotic and disturbing scene. The high pitched strings from 0:23 sort of work, but those chopping strings just detract from the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 44 minutes ago, Jay said: Nice job, Chen! Thank you, thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Lol! Typo fixed Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,364 Posted December 31, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 31, 2020 Opened up and listened to my physical copy this morning. Probably the last time I will listen to the OST program. It's perfectly fine for a while, until you get to the music for the literal end of the movie in track 10, then you still have another almost 25 minutes until the album is actually over. It's just not sequenced well. The new main program is significantly more enjoyable. crumbs, Holko, Chewy and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I'm nearly done with disc 1. Is track 23 an alternate of track 22? I think they don't work at all back to back. Sound is amazing, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Is track 23 an alternate of track 22? Yea bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,482 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I'm still waiting for the Expanded CDs... so I will dig in the old OST... in this attempt to recreate a certain chronology... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 The Confrontation with Ogilvy is completely misplaced and should come after Probing the Basement instead. Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,482 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 FIXED thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I love the Escape from the Basket track, but in terms of chronology it is a toughie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,482 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Yes we have to make difficult choices! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crocodile 8,012 Posted February 9, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2021 I gave this score a very careful listen last night on my good headphones. Boy, does this album sound great! I absolutely adore it - it's absolutely perfect presentation. Karol Jay, Chewy and Holko 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 How does it sound on your bad headphones? Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted February 9, 2021 Author Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said: How does it sound on your bad headphones? Worse. Karol Jurassic Shark and Smeltington 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,689 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 My copy was last seen leaving SFO airport about a week ago, and that's as far as the tracking goes. One of these days it'll turn up. It's hard to put my finger on what's wrong with the album, but the complete ignorance of chronology is definitely a factor. The album jumps around all over the place in terms of story, and puts all of the quiet, 'mood' music in one mammoth 10 minute track, when having breathers now and then early on provides more of a respite from the action material. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rick 1,157 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Back in stock at Intrada! http://store.intrada.com/s.nl/sc.16/category.90860/.f bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rick 1,157 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 OMG can’t believe I was the last person to post here but guess what? It’s back in stock! 😂 https://store.intrada.com/s.nl/sc.16/category.90860/.f crocodile and Chewy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Déjà vu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 Someone should put JW music to this footage. Right out of the film. Twisters even look like tripods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trope 527 Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 I grabbed this score and listened through to most of it last night - Thank goodness for this incredible thread, which has helped me make sense of all the ending alternate cues and CD-only tracks and everything else! My one question is: Did anyone notice that the "Escape from the City" track on CD2 uses what sounds like an alternate take from about 2:33 when compared to the original 2005 OST? I discovered this really quickly since that section of the track is one of my highlights from the score, particularly the big timpani strikes at the end of each muted brass phrase. badaba ba badabadaba BOOM BOOM I'll try to include a recording from both the OST and the Intrada releases to see if anyone else notices it (keep an ear out for the left timpanist). I'm also a little disappointed with the edit job at 0:31 and 0:59 on the same track (I'm aware the track uses the same music from later on edited into the beginning). Apart from that, I'm already enjoying this release and beginning to discover some of Williams' less popular (from a general public perspective) works. I particularly love the harmonic progressions in "Ray and Rachel" - They give a feeling of sympathy but no real warmth, maintaining an atmosphere of coldness/lostness. I only just watched the movie the other week to hear how the score worked in context and I think Williams did a great job on the film. EFTC Intrada.m4a EFTC OST.m4a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 37 minutes ago, Trope said: My one question is: Did anyone notice that the "Escape from the City" track on CD2 uses what sounds like an alternate take from about 2:33 when compared to the original 2005 OST? I discovered this really quickly since that section of the track is one of my highlights from the score, particularly the big timpani strikes at the end of each muted brass phrase. EFTC Intrada.m4a EFTC OST.m4a I can't really hear the difference! From looking at the waveforms, it seems like the same performance was used, but the edits points don't perfectly match. The timpanis strikes don't hit at the exact same moment in the 2020 release (very little shift of 1ms compared to the OST), but again I can't say I can hear the difference 37 minutes ago, Trope said: I'm also a little disappointed with the edit job at 0:31 and 0:59 on the same track (I'm aware the track uses the same music from later on edited into the beginning). Yes that edit at 0:31 is pretty much the only flaw of this release. Mike used the album master for the first 30 seconds of that track because the 2005 OST didn't use the same take presented in "Before The Escape". There are a few other usages of the 2005 album master for this release but the edits are all fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trope 527 Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 40 minutes ago, Chewy said: There are a few other usages of the 2005 album master for this release but the edits are all fine Would it be possible to share a comprehensive list of where the 2005 master was used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, Trope said: Would it be possible to share a comprehensive list of where the 2005 master was used? Yes I posted what I found a while ago: On 24/10/2020 at 6:04 PM, Chewy said: As always, when releases like that come out, I have to open a music editing software and look at the waveforms and spectrograms, and from what I've seen, Mike seems to have used the original album master for some parts of the rebuilt OST on CD 2: 01 Prologue [2:30 - 2:53] 04 The Intersection Scene [4:02 - 4:14] 05 Ray And Rachel [0:00 - 0:04] and [1:10 - 1:17] 06 Escape From The City [0:00 - 0:31] 08 Refugee Status [1:40 - 1:42] 11 The Confrontation With Ogilvy [0:00 - 0:33] and [3:00 - 4:34] 13 Escape From The Basket [4:34 - 6:58] 14 The Reunion [1:28 - 1:31] and [2:12 - 2:21] Mike most likely had to use the album to fill some gaps where the performance, mix or edits were too different from what ended up on CD 1. However, I was still very surprised when I discovered this, knowing that Mike said both in the liner notes and in the video interview that he rebuilt everything and that he did not use the original album at all for the new release. This is confusing, did Mike forget about it, or did he just lie to us ? Trope 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trope 527 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 Just out of interest (and relating to this release), is there any reason why some Intrada releases only have low resolution 600x600 album artwork available on their website? Do they upload high resolution album covers somewhere else that I don't know about? I'm shocked that War of the Worlds, released in 2020 has such a low resolution image. Compared to the HD covers of John Williams scores available at La-La Land (and many from before 2020), this stands out even more in my digital library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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