crocodile 8,017 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Such a great score and it sounds completely different on the new set. Funnily enough, you can hear quite a lot of room noise on the film recording, creaking and such. I could definitely hear someone coughing on Murder. Karol Alan and Amer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan 689 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 15 minutes ago, crocodile said: Such a great score and it sounds completely different on the new set. Funnily enough, you can hear quite a lot of room noise on the film recording, creaking and such. I could definitely hear someone coughing on Murder. Karol I don't know if I'm in a minority here or not but I always appreciate being able to hear a bit of room noise mstrox and blondheim 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,110 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 15 minutes ago, crocodile said: Such a great score and it sounds completely different on the new set. Funnily enough, you can hear quite a lot of room noise on the film recording, creaking and such. I could definitely hear someone coughing on Murder. Karol The original OST sounded a bit muddy to me. I hope the that’s not the case in the film score program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 14 minutes ago, Amer said: The original OST sounded a bit muddy to me. I hope the that’s not the case in the film score program? No, it is a much gentler sound. The OST was very heavy and overbearing. 14 minutes ago, Alan said: I don't know if I'm in a minority here or not but I always appreciate being able to hear a bit of room noise It works for this old fashioned film, definitely. Karol Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, crocodile said: No, it is a much gentler sound. The OST was very heavy and overbearing. Very promising. I haven’t listened yet, but I was concerned that anything longer would be oppressive. Of course, that was a concern for me with his Planet of the Apes, and that score vastly improved with an expansion. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crocodile 8,017 Posted August 5, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 5, 2021 I'm now nearing the end of the film programme and it doesn't feel too long at all. It almost feels like a re-recording as some of the cues really differ from the album versions in terms of performance. And the sound difference also contributes to this feeling. I can hear more fine detail in the orchestrations. Really enjoying the full score. Flows very nicely. Karol Holko, Yavar Moradi, Alan and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,369 Posted August 5, 2021 Author Share Posted August 5, 2021 Awesome! I can't wait to hear this one. I will order it direct from Intrada with Eiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crocodile 8,017 Posted August 5, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 5, 2021 Again, I don't know anything about the mastering and things like that but In terms of expansion vs OST sound comparison this reminds me of How To Train Your Dragon situation. Both are really loud over the top scores but the sound on the longer release is kinder on the ears and therefore doesn't feel as tiring, or long. I know the OST very well as it was my very first Elfman CD and there's a very clear difference. I've been listening to it the other day actually. I'm sure people will have more to comment on. It does satisfy me. And while, yeah, some people might not be happy with the coughing and creaking here and there it sort of works as an aleatoric element with this spooky Halloween music. Karol Tom Guernsey, Kasey Kockroach and mcnab 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mcnab 5 Posted August 5, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 5, 2021 I'm currently listening to the full soundtrack presentation (disc 2 and the first three tracks of disc 3) and it sounds noticeably smoother and easier to listen to than the 1999 soundtrack mastering, at least to my ears. It also sounds more open and spacious. This release is definitely worth upgrading to for anyone who is on the fence about it. Very enjoyable. Jay, crumbs and Holko 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 Read the liner notes today. Very good read and features new quotes from Elfman. It appears he seems to be very proud of this score and the concert suite is his favourite piece from the Burton/Elfman concert series. Karol Holko and Kasey Kockroach 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 43 minutes ago, crocodile said: Read the liner notes today. Do you know who edited and mastered this new release? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 It has arrived I see what you mean about sounding like a re-recording - I knew the film sounded a lot 'looser' in places, but this is pretty striking, and it sounds great. And the ending of the Main Titles has the dark brass buildup that matches the film, yay! That was literally the single piece I had ripped from the DVD, and now we finally have it properly (the choir as he enters the village is a bit different, but I can live with that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, Chewy said: Do you know who edited and mastered this new release? Intrada guys. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 Sounds like a lot of the more romantic Ichabod/Katina material (has a Spidey vibe) was left off the album, as well as the start and end section of a lot of cues. I haven't seen the film in a long time, and it's noticeable. Even just taking the main program into account, the Elfman box was really just a few iTunes bonus tracks in comparison. I've kept a whopping 50 minutes of alternates/album versions - that's got to be a record for any expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 I’m going to assume it’s rivaled by Close Encounters, but I’m not doing the math. Tech credits for this release: Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 Someone on FSM suggested that in a way you get 3 scores in this package, and I unexpectedly decided to do exactly that. Thing is, the instrumentation, mixing and editing differences between the album, score, and alternates, is all over the place and I also have a rather nostalgic attachment to the album. Hence I decided to solve it in the same way I solved Jurassic Park - I've made 3 albums - the 1999 OST, the score, and a 50-minute 'alternates' album. Also solves what to do with Intrada's two covers - I gave the 'alternates' album the horseman cover. I'm absolute ecstatic that this score got this sort of treatment, and ignoring the odd point in the film where Burton clearly fiddled with instrumental/vocal layers (and you have to expect those), you couldn't possibly ask for a more comprehensive release, and it all sounds great. You have no idea how long I've wanted the snippet on disc 2, track 2, 4:45 to end, on disc wthout sfx, and there are now several other cues I didn't know I wanted (such as The Will). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 On 8/5/2021 at 1:34 PM, crocodile said: I could definitely hear someone coughing on Murder. Karol Finally! NOW it’s a good score! crocodile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 I hear the coughs too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 “Isn’t this a great score so far, Tim?” ”uhh...sure, Danny ol’ pal!...coughcoughshouldhavehiredChristopherYoungcough” ”What was that?” ”Oh, nothing” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 994 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 Wrong director (plus, Raimi wouldn't have even worked with Young yet at this point in time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan 689 Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Pleasantly surprised to receive my copy this morning. Last tracking info I received was the set arriving at Heathrow yesterday so I didn't expect to have it until Monday or Tuesday at the earliest. crocodile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Penna 3,694 Posted August 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 8, 2021 I listened to almost all of the main program up to The Church Battle in the car yesterday, and, just, wow. The improvement over the OST in terms of clarity, and general flow of the score, is just amazing. The extra music is a welcome bit of fresh air on top of the original album. If I loved this score before, I absolutely adore it now! It also highlights that for me, the Elfman box didn't do a very inspired job of choosing its additional 10 minutes of music. In my view, the first four tracks represented some of the less essential missing music, and (as I'll come onto later), presented two 'film version' tracks that aren't. Something else to observe, cementing my decision to retain the first disc separately, is that even where the film uses the same version of a cue as the album, there are still lots of mixing differences, with different instruments at the forefront in places. I've gone overnight from keeping the OST just as a nostalgic piece, to being a 'tidier' listening version of the score, with some 'easier on the ears' mixing in places, and the odd microedit. I've listened to all the alternates in some detail, and have a high level idea of what's different. Most of them are essentially the same cue but with orchestration differences, or instruments moved around, and sometimes a few different bars. Another common change is vocals/soloists/brass, etc, dropped for later versions. This is the volume of material we usually don't get outside of sessions, so doubtless there is more to discover between versions - this is just an initial overview of what I reckon is going on in each track to explain its inclusion. (I didn't expect to write this... it just came out ) 04. Introduction (Original) (3:50) - Follows the same ideas as the revised version, but a different composition in a few places early on in the cue.05. A Place Called… (Version #1) (1:33) - Pretty sure just the very ending is a slightly more dramatic build-up.06. Main Titles (Original) (2:45) - seems based on the same idea as the film version, but a different insert when Ichabod is looking in his book and a very different take (more along the lines of the final part of Love Lost) on the shot through the trees. This also ends on what sounds like a shortened version of the arrival in the village. I'd theorize that from Ichabod exiting the carriage, the film uses the orchestra from CD 2, track 2, but the vocal from this track, for its final mix - hence why the former doesn't quite match the film - I reckon that was post-fiddling by Burton.07. Main Titles (Alternate) (2:22) - pretty much the same as the previous track until the 'trees' bit, where it has the film's insert. It stops as he gets off the carriage.08. The Story… (Original) (4:27) - mostly some instrumentation differences, and a few trumpet lines that aren't in the film version.09. Ichabod’s Arrival (Alternate) (1:27) - A more string-based intro, loses a tiny repeated note that the film version has, and the crescendo over the shot of the mansion is more subdued. This cue is what the Elfman box thought was the 'film version', and hence what made me nervous that this set would make the same selection. Thankfully the sessions were incomplete, and the Elfman box was just wrong.10. Masbath’s Terrible Death (Original) (1:44) - just a different ending, a bit messy in its orchestration - I didn't like it.11. Autopsy/Phony Chase (Original) (2:33) - same deal as previous track - more listenable, but not overly different IMO.12. Sweet Dreams (Original) (1:18) - I think this moves the choir more to the rear, and brings some instruments forward. Feels much lighter than the film version. I'm a bit surprised this would make the cut as an 'alternate' as it sounds to me just what you get if you fiddle with the layers in post.13. Sweet Dreams (Alternate) (1:17) - takes a more 'plucked string' approach for the most part.14. Young Ichabod (Revised #1) (1:20) - I think this is just the album track with the choir layer and other bits brought way more to the front.15. Spying (Original) (3:26) - a subtly different take on the Ichabod/Katrina material, rather nice.16. Philipse’s Death (Original) (1:17) - mostly just some instrumentation differences from the horseman's fanfare onwards (the brass is less prominent)17. Mystery Figure (Original) (1:10) - different statement when Katrina is revealed01. The Tree Of Death (Original) (10:23) - Having compared in my editor, it all looks basically the same except for the final section right at the end.02. Bad Dream/Tender Moment (Original) (3:31) - these two are just slightly different variants on the tender material at the end.03. Bad Dream/Tender Moment (Version #2) (3:31)04. The Will (Original) (2:28) - takes a more string and woodwind based approach. It very much lacks the effective brass-based build-up in the film version. Probably the most different of all the alternates.05. Evil Eye (Original) (3:45) - mostly instrumentation differences, with the bit in the woods being heavier and more dense than the film, more instruments after that, then a completely different composition at the end.06. The Church Battle (Original) (8:46) - A different early section (first minute), then mostly the same until Love Lost, which has some very different parts, with a more brass-based approach. A really cool moment at 4:00 with brass and solo vocal adding to the strings.07. Love Lost (Revised) (5:16) - loses the added brass/vocals of the previous version, but has some other instrumentation/melodic differences early on.08. The Windmill (Original) (7:08) - differs from the film in a few places. (the OST edits the film version down and changes the mixing here and there)09. The Chase/The Final Confrontation (Version #1) A New Day! (Original) (9:05) - some fairly big differences towards the end of Confrontation, and A New Day is a more subdued, with no brass and a different melody.10. The Chase/The Final Confrontation (Version #2) A New Day! (Original) (9:04) - no composition changes I can hear, but uses a string passage instead of woodwind, just before the horseman's kiss.11. End Credits (Original) (3:10) - I believe this just has an extra solo vocal at the end. The film drops it, leaving only the counterpoint. Chewy, crumbs, mcnab and 5 others 4 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,369 Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 Awesome! Thanks for that! Can't wait to order this tomorrow night along with Eiger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Listened to the film presentation of this and I can say this is a great discovery! The sound is indeed pretty cool and I'm pretty much happy with what Intrada has done on this. However, I noticed a pretty annoying technical issue on this release: every track has a forced 0.02s plain silence section at the beginning. While this might sound normal and very minor, the listening experience on disc 1 is definitely affected. The 1999 OST was mastered gaplessly, which basically means that you can sometimes hear the ending of the previous track in the beginning of the next one (or the opening of the next track at the end of previous one). For this release, the 1999 album master was used, meaning that the new CD is also gapless. Consequently, the added silence makes the transitions of some tracks very jarring, and this is frustrating because the 1999 OST transitions are fine. Here are two little examples of how it sounds like. Transition between The Church Battle (T13) and Love Lost (T14): Transition between The Final Confrontation (T17) and A New Day! (T18): I don't see any reason to add this little silence at the beginning of each track, this just shouldn't have been done. I might post this on the Intrada forum so we might get an explanation... Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 20 minutes ago, Chewy said: Consequently, the added silence makes the transitions of some tracks very jarring, and this is frustrating because the 1999 OST transitions are fine. That's quite unfortunate. Let's hope Intrada fixes this issue for future pressings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Let's demand they fix this for future pressings. They have done it before under pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, Chewy said: Listened to the film presentation of this and I can say this is a great discovery! The sound is indeed pretty cool and I'm pretty much happy with what Intrada has done on this. However, I noticed a pretty annoying technical issue on this release: every track has a forced 0.02s plain silence section. While this might sound normal and very minor, the listening experience on disc 1 is definitely affected. The 1999 OST was mastered gaplessly, which basically means that you can sometimes hear the ending of the previous track in the beginning of the next one (or the opening of the next track at the end of previous one). For this release, the 1999 album master was used and the track splittings have been fixed (in the old album, some cues would start before the new track had even begun). However, it remains a gapless album and the cues are still crossfaded on this new release. Consequently, the added silence makes the transitions of some tracks very jarring, and this is frustrating because the 1999 OST transitions are fine. Here are two little examples of how it sounds like. Transition between The Church Battle (T13) and Love Lost (T14): Transition between The Final Confrontation (T17) and A New Day! (T18): I don't see any reason to add this little silence at the beginning of each track, this just shouldn't have been done. I might post this on the Intrada forum so we might get an explanation... I think EAC allow you to encode gapless tracks by completely removing gaps between two tracks, have you tried? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bespin said: I think EAC allow you to encode gapless tracks by removing completely the silence between them, have you tried? The gaps are inside the tracks as ripped, 0.2 seconds in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Just now, Bespin said: I think EAC allow you to encode gapless tracks by removing completely the silence between them, have you tried? Yeah this is not a ripping issue, the rip I have matches other rips found on the CueTools database. And this is not the usual 2 seconds gap you can sometimes get between tracks, this one is much smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 But EAC have options to the remove silence gaps before or after a track, did you tried them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 It's very clear on The Chase and A New Day. That's a bit unfortunate, although I assume it's just the same content as the original album so we can use that instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Well if it's a problem we can't get over, I'll wait for a FIXED reissue of the 4-CD set. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: It's very clear on The Chase and A New Day. That's a bit unfortunate, although I assume it's just the same content as the original album. No the original album has correct transitions, the silences can be found on this new release only. They are even on every track of the other discs but it is just not noticeable by ear, you can notice them on the waveforms though. 6 minutes ago, Bespin said: But EAC have options to the remove silence gaps before or after a track, did you tried them? No, but even if that would work, there would still be an issue: these incorrect transitions can be heard by putting the CD into a regular CD player... crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Chewy said: No the original album has correct transitions, the silences can be found on this new release only. They are even on every track of the other discs but it is just not noticeable by ear, you can notice them on the waveforms though. Oh, I meant that I assume the musical content is the same, i.e. they've just somehow taken the existing master and introduced the silence. I know the original album has proper gapless - I'll just use that instead. Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bespin 8,483 Posted August 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2021 Well if companies have lost the science to put gapless albums on CD and manage correctly the CUE sheet... we are lost! Someone will tell Intrada? crumbs, Jurassic Shark, Chewy and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bespin said: Someone will tell Intrada? Posted on their forum, hopefully they answer! Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bespin 8,483 Posted August 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2021 Thanks Chewy, you are our only, last...ehhh current hope! crumbs, Holko and Chewy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,317 Posted August 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2021 It's really quite baffling how such obvious technical issues continue to slip through from final master to release, only for a listener to discover them on their first listen. It still annoys me how many horrible analogue edits were needlessly retained on The Land Before Time; all were easily fixable using fragments of an alternate source to patch over the edits, yet none were fixed. Holko, GoodMusician and Chewy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Maybe if Fake would be content with getting projects running, writing his blog posts, and listening to the final product done by the professionals... Bespin and A. A. Ron 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 This release also has some digital ticks/pops, presumably inherent to the recording. Disc 3 Track 2: A bit frustrating again because the overall sound of the new release is pretty good and those things can easily be fixed. EDIT: other ticks I initially mentioned were caused by ripping issues. crumbs and Holko 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Removed from my cart, I'll wait for a corrective reprint. Chewy and crumbs 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chewy 2,391 Posted August 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2021 And when you realize you can fix those in 2 seconds using Audacity... Holko, Bespin, GoodMusician and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 5 hours ago, Chewy said: Listened to the film presentation of this and I can say this is a great discovery! The sound is indeed pretty cool and I'm pretty much happy with what Intrada has done on this. However, I noticed a pretty annoying technical issue on this release: every track has a forced 0.02s plain silence section. While this might sound normal and very minor, the listening experience on disc 1 is definitely affected. The 1999 OST was mastered gaplessly, which basically means that you can sometimes hear the ending of the previous track in the beginning of the next one (or the opening of the next track at the end of previous one). For this release, the 1999 album master was used and the track splittings have been fixed (in the old album, some cues would start before the new track had even begun). However, it remains a gapless album and the cues are still crossfaded on this new release. Consequently, the added silence makes the transitions of some tracks very jarring, and this is frustrating because the 1999 OST transitions are fine. Here are two little examples of how it sounds like. Transition between The Church Battle (T13) and Love Lost (T14): Transition between The Final Confrontation (T17) and A New Day! (T18): I don't see any reason to add this little silence at the beginning of each track, this just shouldn't have been done. I might post this on the Intrada forum so we might get an explanation... Clearly a technical issue. In no way could this be a legit editorial decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,369 Posted August 9, 2021 Author Share Posted August 9, 2021 On the Intrada forums, Roger says Quote I hear it now. Let me see what's up with that. http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=84195#p84195 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Someone will be fired... AGAIN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Roger just said here: Quote Thanks. We fixed all the gaps where it interrupts the assembly. Not sure it's really worth it to fix the ones between tracks. Most people don't seem to notice. So we'll repress Disc 1 and make available to anyone who needs it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 I knew about the ones between the gapless tracks in the OST on Disc 1 but what/where are the other gaps he is referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,353 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 1 minute ago, blondheim said: I knew about the ones between the gapless tracks in the OST on Disc 1 but what/where are the other gaps he is referring to? Gaps between non gapless tracks I assume... Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 BLONDheim living up to his username... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Obviously they are not on Disc 1 but I don't have the CDs to check so Idc whether that makes me blonde or not. I was just curious to know before I bought anything. Damn... Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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