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Hans Zimmer and Nick-Glennie Smith's THE ROCK (1996) - NEW! 2023 Intrada 2-CD edition

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Jay

Jay 37,369

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I wonder why Joe did not make a promo video for this one?

 

And JTW, that typo was Doug's.  I noticed it but did not want to alter his text

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CD 1 THE SCORE 01. Opening–Naval Weapons Depot (8:07) 02. Baby Gas (2:28) 03. Romance I–Tour’s Over Bob (3:46) 04. Hummel Speech/Alcatraz Reopened (2:25) 05. Hummel’s Demands To Pentagon (1:

Jay
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Stéphane has provided more info at the same link: Nick & Hans basically gave me carte blanche. It was cool to have Harry Gregson-Williams' support & interest as well (unfortunately, HG

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Coming later next week. 2-CD set. More details next week.   https://www.facebook.com/groups/95015405220/permalink/10168374430795221/

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Jay

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On 28/09/2023 at 11:53 AM, Jay said:

If anybody has ever wondered who composed what on this score, the website hans-zimmer.com has the answer

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

https://hans-zimmer.com/discography/104/project/2046

 

On that same page, Stéphane Humez provides more details into the scoring process, in two posts from March 2023:

 

Mmmh I read a lot of things. I won't pretend I have the full truth even though I know Hans & Nick very well. (Also, the cue slates presented above are the official ones, so is the cuesheet).

 

But here's what I can tell. Nick was hired to score it (thanks to Hans but also his previous work for Bruckheimer/Bay on Bad Boys with Mancina probably helped). Actually, HGW was going to help Nick even before Hans had to jump in. NGS/Bay/Bruckheimer was just not a great combination (those ever-changing-last-minute-rework type of blockbusters are very much under heavy pressure, especially with Bay at the helm) and there was a lot of music to write in a very short amount of time (what's new lol). So they were sold on the general style Nick was developing, but I guess not much on his themes.

 

So Hans jumped in, probably with no time to develop any suites, so he started scoring to picture. He did write the theme/cue "8m18B SEAL Attack 2nd Half" which became the main theme & the opening title later. He did write "3m06 Hummel Speech - Alcatraz Reopened" as well, and from what he remembered he had a hand in most cues in the end. But Hans joined Nick and they absolutely worked together, that's why it's very hybrid and sounds like both of them. "15m27 Fort Walton, Kansas" is probably very much both of them. Nick still had some of the themes himself, like "6m15A Jade" or most of what ended up in "1m02 Naval Weapons Depot" or "2m05 Tour's Over Bob". But things like "11m22 Hostage - Goodspeed Captured" or "7m17 Hummel - SEALs" are the other big "Hans" things I believe. What's funny is there always was an urban legend about JNH helping, especially since he was thanked in the booklet. From what I know, Hans/MV helped James on Waterworld (his tech guru Bob Daspit helped with lots of sounds & samples), in return while rushing The Rock Hans asked James if he could shamelessly rip him off :). And parts of 7m17 do sound a lot like JNH. So who really knows ?

 

In the team that was assembled to meet the deadline, Don Harper was initially supposed to have a bigger role than Harry, but jumped ship in the middle so Harry  had to redo most of his work, that's why very little of what Don did ended in the score (best example is the Chase, which was Don's assignment, but Harry had to redo a million times). Harry handled pretty much most of the core of the electro/action of the movie (as you can see in the cuesheet), and wrote small motifs (like "2m03 Baby Gas").

 

Steven Stern (RIP) was trying to patch up written cues with electronics & more ambient material. For Russ Landau, he wasn't supposed to be there at all and had no connection with Media Ventures, but back then he had the same agent as Hans so he came in very late during rush hour to help arrange, ended up arranging "4m09 San Francisco Montage".

 

If I take the OST edit of "The Chase", I'd say the first 2:42 min are Nick & Don. After that, it jumps to HGW arranging a HZ/NGS theme (3:10, the "heroic John Mason theme"), then arranging Nick's "main" theme (4:56).

 

But it's mostly suspicions too... ;)

 

The funny thing is it was such a mess that when attributing cuesheet, they didn't even bother with proportions (how much was composed by whom). They split all cues equally between everyone credited. Like, for the Chase, it's 25% for the 4 composers. For cues written by 3, it's 33,33% each, for cues written by 2, it's 50%... I guess it was too complicated in such a short amount of time to actually analyse it ! :D

 

And he also just posted this:

 

So Roger just announced it, 2 CDs coming next week at Intrada. I produced the album for them and I'll have a few things to explain in a few days when full details are out... :)

 

Stéphane has provided more info at the same link:


Nick & Hans basically gave me carte blanche. It was cool to have Harry Gregson-Williams' support & interest as well (unfortunately, HGW isn't really interested in the whole "expanded" topic so don't expect any of his scores to be expanded. But he was cool with The Rock. Hoping one day we'll change his mind ! :)). Kaya Savas wrote the liners, if you want to read more from the composers about their experience & the production of that score).

 

We got big help from RCP & the film's music editing team to get material. My friend Maxime Marion (who knows the score inside & out as much as I do) engineered & mastered it. We took great care of it. Douglass Fake from Intrada usually handles mastering for most of their releases but they were happy with what we came up with so I guess we didn't disappoint. Quality is top notch, besides a few of the demos (more on that below).

 

The score presentation is pretty straightforward. Cues were assembled where it made sense, Nick & Marc Streitenfeld's assembly from 1996 was a blueprint to start with but it also had a few things that needed corrections.

 

It was a surprise that among the material RCP kept they had old synth mock ups of the score, not always in the best shape though. That's the only downside here, the Chase demos didn't come in great quality (fear not, nothing on the level of the almost unlistenable The Lion King Legacy Collection score demos lol). But there was never a question not to include them : they're just too good & too much fun, and a great case study of a sequence rewritten to death developing to its final version just days before the film's release (it was the last approved cue !).

 

Oh and if you ask why more of Nick's early sketches are not released, it was technically impossible for the most part as some bits got reused elsewhere in other scores later.

 

Out of all that material, we had Bob Daspit's great guitar solo from Naval Weapons Depot, so it was cool to remix it and end the album with that "heavy guitar version".

 

Hope you'll enjoy it !!!

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Yavar Moradi

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And the two Narnia scores, which have a lot of worthy music unreleased...

 

Oh, here's a weird little HGW-related news tidbit I ran across recently: https://www.wsj.com/finance/you-can-now-invest-in-shrek-music-rights-the-same-place-you-buy-stocks-2798a41f?st=jaianxa1fwer3ew&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

 

(And oddly no mention at all of John Powell in that article, even though he co-wrote the score to Shrek... did he not get the same rights as HGW did, somehow?)

 

Yavar

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JTN

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But why isn’t HGW interested in releasing his complete scores? Every other film composer is…

Doesn’t he know he has many fans who would be ecstatic to hear all the music he wrote for some of his scores?

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Tallguy

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1 hour ago, JTW said:

But why isn’t HGW interested in releasing his complete scores? Every other film composer is…

Doesn’t he know he has many fans who would be ecstatic to hear all the music he wrote for some of his scores?

 

Thor got to him.

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JTN

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50 minutes ago, Thor said:


Indeed.

 

Mwahahaha (evil laugh).

Damn ye, Thor!

 

No, but seriously, why wouldn’t HGW want expanded editions? 

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Stark

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20 hours ago, JTW said:

But why isn’t HGW interested in releasing his complete scores? Every other film composer is…

Doesn’t he know he has many fans who would be ecstatic to hear all the music he wrote for some of his scores?

According to the same thread on hans-zimmer.com, Trevor Rabin also doesn’t care about expanded releases… so we are never gonna get Armageddon :shakehead:

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Edmilson

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Yeah, since these guys don't want to be handosmely paid by expanding their work, then thank goodness almost every single RC score has been leaked, one way or another.

 

The recording sessions for Kingdom of Heaven and Narnia 1 and 2 are already available on, hmm, certain places :whistle:.

 

OTOH, Sinbad hasn't leaked... But is there much stuff that didn't make the OST?

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Jay

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Liner notes writer @Kaya says

 

Happy album release day!


store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.12880/.f


If you know me, chances are I talked your ear off about the score for The Rock. This bombastic action thriller from Michael Bay came out when I was 9-years old, and even though it’s just an over-the-top action movie to most, to me it was a gateway into another world. It was the first R-rated movie I was allowed to see, and it imprinted itself into my brain instantly.


I didn’t know what a soundtrack was at 9, all I know is I wanted the “music from the movie”. The three names on the front cover of my cassette didn’t mean anything to me until I started realizing that the other music I ended up loving had these names on them too. Strangely, I never once got an itch to pursue music. It was the marriage of image and music that spoke to me, and that’s what set me on the filmmaking path.


This project would have never gotten off the ground if it weren’t for the support and trust of Nick, Hans, Harry and Steven. And the cherry on top was I got to do it with my good friends Stéphane and Maxime. It’s crazy how we bonded over our love for Hans’s music back in the early days of the internet and today we get to help make sure The Rock is properly taken care of to be presented to the world again in the best presentation possible.


All 3 of us live and breathe this film and score, and the liner notes are a result of all of us dissecting and discussing. We learned new things we never noticed before, and we poured over the thematic structure to realize how brilliantly crafted this score really is. It was so much fun. And being able to inject new quotes from Nick, Hans and Harry into it was pure joy.


Nick and Hans, thank you for helping even though you were in the middle of a gigantic tour on the other side of the planet at the time. Harry, thank you for opening up and talking about those early days in your career when Nick and Hans pulled you into this film. I can’t tell you how much it means to me to be able to make sure the liners present your guys’ whirlwind journey in making this score. I hope this score can still go out and find some young soul to awaken to show what the power of visual storytelling with editing and music can be, even in pure popcorn flick fashion.


Thanks to Douglass and Roger and the whole team at Intrada that helped get this project off the ground and worked to get everything cleared and approved.


Thanks again to Nick, Hans and Harry, you guys indirectly helped me find my path while you were on yours. I know it seemed like a fever dream that is now a distant memory, but goddamn you guys cooked up something special. Please grab a copy and enjoy. Plus the timing worked out where we’re releasing on Nick’s birthday! Happy b-day, Nick!


My only complaint is that we didn’t opt for the old Turkish key art for this release. I dunno I just kind of like it better for some reason. 🤔

 

#therock #intrada #soundtrack #nickglenniesmith #hanszimmer #harrygregsonwilliams #michaelbay #jerrybruckheimer #welcometotherock #90s #90smovies

 

image.jpeg

 

https://www.facebook.com/kayasavas/posts/pfbid0TyEJXhzGe11oUpr8FnXToVtaTK8cH79Jn3zrRh7g2AbEvNH2QqQwCU3sfrQecKtul

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crocodile

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Make sure you guys share your thoughts on this. I haven't got this score at all in my collection but sometimes I'm in a mood for Zimmer power anthem of old (love The Peacemaker). 

 

Karol

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Koray Savas

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On 4/10/2023 at 7:36 PM, JTW said:

No, but seriously, why wouldn’t HGW want expanded editions? 

It’s not that uncommon. Wasn’t Goldsmith notoriously against some of his scores being released at all?

On 5/10/2023 at 3:26 PM, Edmilson said:

Yeah, since these guys don't want to be handosmely paid by expanding their work, then thank goodness almost every single RC score has been leaked, one way or another.

I don’t think composers are being handsomely paid for CD expansions. 

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JTN

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7 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

It’s not that uncommon. Wasn’t Goldsmith notoriously against some of his scores being released at all?

It’s not an answer to my question, though. 
 

I’d say very few composers don’t want all their music being represented on an expanded edition if being offered the chance.

And I wonder why HGW doesn’t.

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Trope

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2 hours ago, JTW said:

I’d say very few composers don’t want all their music being represented on an expanded edition if being offered the chance.

And I wonder why HGW doesn’t.

Perhaps it’s because we might notice even more instances of him using the same samples from his toolkit! 
 

I jest of course. I love how HGW has been able to craft his own unique sound palette over the years.

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Koray Savas

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On 7/10/2023 at 9:09 AM, JTW said:

It’s not an answer to my question, though. 
 

I’d say very few composers don’t want all their music being represented on an expanded edition if being offered the chance.

And I wonder why HGW doesn’t.

No one is going to know unless you ask HGW. He probably prefers the album presentation like Thor. JW wasn’t even on board for a lot of things until Matessino became his trusted producer for such projects. 
 

Zimmer didn’t want his early scores released because he’s not proud of the music. Could also be something similar to that. 

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Koray Savas

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27 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Didn't Zimmer once vetoed an expanded edition of The Last Samurai?

 

Well, they should've done that score back then because it's a Warner Bros movie and nowadays they're closed for business with the labels.

He nixed a Varese release of a score awhile back, because he thought it was too short.

 

And most recently he was publicly upset on Facebook about the premier releases of his early film scores. 

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Trope

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I'm on the fence about purchasing this. My only experience with 90s action mode Zimmer is Drop Zone and The Peacemaker, which I do enjoy. Do people consider The Rock to be greater, equal to or lesser than those two (and others like Crimson Tide and Broken Arrow)?

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Thor

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7 hours ago, Trope said:

I'm on the fence about purchasing this. My only experience with 90s action mode Zimmer is Drop Zone and The Peacemaker, which I do enjoy. Do people consider The Rock to be greater, equal to or lesser than those two (and others like Crimson Tide and Broken Arrow)?

 

Much, much better than DROP ZONE (which I've never cared about), BROKEN ARROW (which I've never cared about) and THE PEACEMAKER (which I've cared marginally about). On the same level, and stylistically similar to CRIMSON TIDE.

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Jay

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10 hours ago, Trope said:

I'm on the fence about purchasing this. My only experience with 90s action mode Zimmer is Drop Zone and The Peacemaker, which I do enjoy. Do people consider The Rock to be greater, equal to or lesser than those two (and others like Crimson Tide and Broken Arrow)?

 

Much greater, without question. 

 

The samples on Intrada's website should tell you if you'll enjoy it or not. 

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Richard Penna

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Previewed this set and it reminded me of how fun some of the action sequences are - specifically the SFO chase and the final rocket sequence. I'd also never really paid attention before to Baby Gas - nice, slightly understated but tense and atmospheric piece.

 

Oddly, the element that probably swung it towards a purchase for me is the transition from Fort Walton to the end titles, which is a nicely presented two-parter without that awful crossfade in the film.

 

On 04/10/2023 at 2:36 PM, JTW said:

No, but seriously, why wouldn’t HGW want expanded editions? 

 

He's said in a couple of interviews that the 50-minute or so album is 'the best bits' of said score, but he also said that he put out a longer album for Mulan and people complained that it was too long, so (exact words) 'you can't win'. I get the sense he just doesn't feel like we need to hear the complete score in most cases.

 

However, Kingdom of Heaven and Narnia 1 are out there, as is most of The Martian (my favourite three of his) so if he doesn't want them out in full, then the RS will do for me. I rarely care about the 'composer approved' element of a release if I can have all the cues I wanted.

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JTN

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14 hours ago, Tallguy said:

Recording Sessions, I assume.

 

Did anyone ever think we would be listening to The Rock and thinking "They don't make 'em like that anymore?"

Yep, until you listen to Crimson Tide. :) 

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Thor

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1 hour ago, JTW said:

Yep, until you listen to Crimson Tide. :) 

 

Which was before THE ROCK.

 

But yeah, when I went through my Zimmer collection recently, I also bemoaned the loss of the power anthem style in today's scores. It drew its last gasp with the PIRATES movies and maybe KING ARTHUR, and haven't been heard from since. :( 

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JTN

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7 minutes ago, Thor said:

Which was before THE ROCK.

But you can listen to CRIMSON TIDE after it. :D


Speaking of Pirates, some of the bonus content on THE ROCK CD2 bears some resemblance to PotC. There’s 7 years between the two films, but maybe Hans was already developing that style.

 

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bollemanneke

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On 04/10/2023 at 6:04 PM, JTW said:

But why isn’t HGW interested in releasing his complete scores? Every other film composer is…

Doesn’t he know he has many fans who would be ecstatic to hear all the music he wrote for some of his scores?

If everyone was interested, why do they never ever do it right on day 1?

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JTN

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3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

If everyone was interested, why do they never ever do it right on day 1?

The studios? Budgetary restrictions? Who knows? But I'm sure (almost) every film composer wants all the music they compose and record for a film, released. Otherwise why would there be so many expansions? 

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Richard Penna

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13 minutes ago, JTW said:

But I'm sure (almost) every film composer wants all the music they compose and record for a film, released.

 

Pretty sure they don't. Even those that do, don't just want the entire sessions out there - they want to clean things up a bit for the album.

 

There are plenty of expansions because it could be several decades (at least) before they happen, and that's enough time in most composers' eyes to allow the full score out.

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JTN

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11 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

don't just want the entire sessions out there

Surely I didn't mean the entire sessions. And I'm not calling you Shirley. 

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Richard Penna

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Do you really think that, fees and practical issues aside for argument's sake, most composers would want everything they did for every film available to download right away?

 

Sure, we see the occasional 2+hour release for a big score but that's not the majority of composers.

 

It'd be great if you were right of course! But I don't think so.

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Thor

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Thankfully, there are still some composers around to see the rhyme and reason in beautifully, succinctly curated OSTs. Here's me raising my glass to them!

 

By the way, not even a curated OST would have saved HGW's MULAN. A rare misfire of a score from him, for a disaster of a film that I had to turn off in anger. My two cents here:

 

https://celluloidtunes.no/mulan-harry-gregson-williams/

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enderdrag64

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46 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Do you really think that, fees and practical issues aside for argument's sake, most composers would want everything they did for every film available to download right away?

 

Sure, we see the occasional 2+hour release for a big score but that's not the majority of composers.

 

It'd be great if you were right of course! But I don't think so.

I think this is slowly the direction we're moving in. I mean even *tv shows* now are getting this treatment, with Rings of Power and now Ahsoka. Hopefully one day all scores will be this way.
I actually think Rings of Power's release model was a brilliant way to make everyone happy. One curated OST to make casual listeners (and Thor) happy, and then complete albums for fans of the score, both released at the same time. I'd love to see more shows and films follow this model

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Thor

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9 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

I actually think Rings of Power's release model was a brilliant way to make everyone happy. One curated OST to make casual listeners (and Thor) happy, and then complete albums for fans of the score, both released at the same time. I'd love to see more shows and films follow this model

 

Not quite. The "OST" was 2 hours and 40 minutes. However, I've whittled it down to a more sane length myself. 63 minutes, which works reasonably well.

 

 

rings.jpg

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JTN

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1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

Sure, we see the occasional 2+hour release for a big score but that's not the majority of composers.

I don't think it's up to the composers unfortunately. But that doesn't necessarily mean that that's not what they'd want if it were up to them.

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Richard Penna

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31 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Not quite. The "OST" was 2 hours and 40 minutes. However, I've whittled it down to a more sane length myself. 63 minutes, which works reasonably well.

 

I'd personally have cut the last hour of the OST down a bit - one of the later episodes has all but one cue (I think) on this album. He could've been a bit more selective there.

 

But he's done most of the work for you in that the tracks themselves are curated and edited - you just chose the ones you felt flowed - win win.

 

12 minutes ago, JTW said:

I don't think it's up to the composers unfortunately. But that doesn't necessarily mean that that's not what they'd want if it were up to them.

 

The composers will be limited, sure, but I still don't think most would opt to release everything immediately if there were no limitations.

 

Of course, more these days are going this route but I think it's just revealing which few composers have that mindset amongst the ocean.

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Edmilson

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1 hour ago, Thor said:

By the way, not even a curated OST would have saved HGW's MULAN. A rare misfire of a score from him, for a disaster of a film that I had to turn off in anger. My two cents here:

 

I don't remember a single note from HGW's Mulan. Such a forgettable, bland score. I was hoping his return to fantasy movies would give us something closer to Narnia, but in a Chinese setting. But that was probably a fool's hope, for current day HGW is different from 2000s HGW.

 

And yeah, the movie is terrible even by "Disney remakes of their animated classics" standard. 

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