A Rare Release of The Rare Breed?

[That_Bloke 115]

Reading the interview with Stéphane Lerouge on the Ecoutez John Williams 20 CD box release, I came across this...

 

"Likewise, I would have liked the western CD to open with The Rare Breed (Rancho Bravo) but given that a reissue project is already underway, it was a bit complicated..."

 

He says "reissue" but the article is in French and I'm quoting from the autotranslate. 

 

Does it mean JW changed his mind about releasing Rare Breed and we can expect a premiere release? Or did the "reissue project" mean the 20CD box set, which is to only include recordings already issued, not premiere.

 

I thought the whole interview was a good read. 

 

Cheers 🙂

 

https://www.underscores.fr/chroniques/disques/2023/10/the-legend-of-john-williams/

 

 

 

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

The translation is good. There could be a reissue coming soon which would be fantastic

[Thor 7,521]

If it's correctly translated as 'reissue', it perhaps means that they count the old, 20-minute Silva suite as the 'premiere issue'.  In either case, looking forward to the score having an album of its own, and not just part of a compilation.

[Bespin 8,484]

The Rare OST!

 

I bet @Jay knew that, but even under torture he would never acknowledge it!

[Richard Penna 3,695]

19 minutes ago, Thor said:

If it's correctly translated as 'reissue', it perhaps means that they count the old, 20-minute Silva suite as the 'premiere issue'.  In either case, looking forward to the score having an album of its own, and not just part of a compilation.

 

I have some of that suite (an 8 minute track). Is that 20 minutes not your absolutely perfect summation of the score, re-recorded and reconceptualised?

[Thor 7,521]

38 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

I have some of that suite (an 8 minute track). Is that 20 minutes not your absolutely perfect summation of the score, re-recorded and reconceptualised?

 

It is. I've seen the film a couple of times, and the suite really does contain all the major highlights from the score as it appears there. Still, it deserves a CD of its own, and I'm sure there's enough music to justify it.

 

Back in the day, I always wished for a THE RARE BREED/THE PLAINSMAN western combo CD, but I don't think THE PLAINSMAN is very likely any time soon.

[That_Bloke 115]

50 minutes ago, Thor said:

If it's correctly translated as 'reissue', it perhaps means that they count the old, 20-minute Silva suite as the 'premiere issue'.  In either case, looking forward to the score having an album of its own, and not just part of a compilation.

 

I have the Silva 20 minute suite and the film on DVD.

 

I found the film pleasant and well made, but nothing exceptional. The only thing keeping me watching was just to hear the score as used in the film.

 

Two things:

1. the score in the film is repetitive, and not in a "theme and variation" way. It's like Williams only recorded about three cues and the film just re-used those same cues for scene transitions. 

 

2. In the second half of the film we hear the famous Superman march ostinato, matched with a similar choral build up. However, when it came to creating the suite, the rhythm of the ostinato was altered so as not to be a direct copy of that used in Superman. Maybe Williams didn't want to be accused of self-plagiarism in creating the Superman March? 

 

Basically, I think the 20 minute suite is the best representation of the score, when I compare it to the repetition used in the film. 

 

But if a CD of the score was ever released, I'd still buy it. 😊 

 

[Thor 7,521]

You're right about repetitive. It's been a while since the last time I saw it, but I found this post on FSM from 2009, apparently right after I had first watched it:

 

Quote

OK, so this was the next Williams film I've just seen for the first time.

It's a good old-fashioned western that has charm and wit. However, it's stereotypical enough to carry a B-film quality, even though it stars A list stars Jimmy Stewart and Maureen O'Hara. You've got the "stiff" English women, the "howdy-doody" American cowboy and a hilarious Scotsman (with an equally overdone accent) that is pulled right out of a pirate movie or something.  Not to mention an unintentionally funny bar fight.

But Williams' music for this is really superb - from the folksy and "open" main theme to some fine string writing, in particular, here and there. For example, the scene where the bull that is going to spawn the "rare breed", the horn-less Vindicator, is let loose. Some haunting work by Williams there. In many ways, this is a really fullbodied orchestral work that must be one of the earliest examples of the Williams sound we would come to know. It's a shame that it has only been released as a 17-minute suite [sic.] on the Silva compilation (even though that's an excellent suite!). It deserves better.

By the way, does anyone know if Williams wrote the marches that are played onscreen by a marching band in the opening?

 

...Jeff E confirmed later on in the thread that the diegetic marches were also written by JW.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

Maybe the film has tracked music, repeting the catchy main theme? there could be unused music too...

[That_Bloke 115]

6 hours ago, Thor said:

...Jeff E confirmed later on in the thread that the diegetic marches were also written by JW.

 

 

Thank you. This does make the score more interesting, and would nice if these are included on any CD release of the score.

6 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Maybe the film has tracked music, repeting the catchy main theme? there could be unused music too...

 

Oh yes, that catchy main theme is sure given a workout in the film. 🙂 

 

As I said, even though I think the 20 minute suite is a great representation of the score, I'd still buy the score CD if one was released. 

 

Any unused or alternate cues would be icing on the cake.

 

But hearing the riff from the Superman March being used for some frisky cows was something else 😉😃

[1977 1,743]

I surely do hope that Mr Williams has changed his mind 'bout releasin' this one.

[Amer 2,117]

If this indeed comes out then Im sure STORY OF A WOMAN will not be far behind and perhaps THE REIVERS and SUGARLAND EXPRESS too! 

[crumbs 14,319]

2 hours ago, Amer said:

If this indeed comes out then Im sure STORY OF A WOMAN will not be far behind and perhaps THE REIVERS and SUGARLAND EXPRESS too! 

 

It's nice to imagine Williams, in his older age, having an epiphany that revisiting these earlier assignments might provide some closure on his early career and a chapter of his life he's been reluctant to revisit.

 

Next year's 50th Anniversary of Sugarland Express (and his collaboration with Spielberg) is probably as close as we'll ever get to convincing him to release that score, especially after the victory lap of The Fabelmans and the upcoming documentary (which makes perfect sense for the 50th anniversary of their first film together).

[Thor 7,521]

No one would be happier about those coming out than me (well, except maybe THE REIVERS, which I think is already sufficently represented), but please not NOW. Wait a year or two for the exchange rate for the Norwegian krone to US dollar to hopefully go down. Currently have to pay almost 12 NOK for 1 dollar. I know that doesn't say much to most of you, but that's a LOT. Can't remember it being anywhere near there in my lifetime (it has stayed between 6 and 8, mostly).

[Chewy 2,396]

20 minutes ago, Thor said:

No one would be happier about those coming out than me (well, except maybe THE REIVERS, which I think is already sufficently represented), but please not NOW. Wait a year or two for the exchange rate for the Norwegian krone to US dollar to hopefully go down. Currently have to pay almost 12 NOK for 1 dollar. I know that doesn't say much to most of you, but that's a LOT. Can't remember it being anywhere near there in my lifetime (it has stayed between 6 and 8, mostly).

If this release comes out, it will probably stay in print for a few years, you shouldn't worry too much about it.

[That_Bloke 115]

4 hours ago, Thor said:

No one would be happier about those coming out than me (well, except maybe THE REIVERS, which I think is already sufficently represented), but please not NOW. Wait a year or two for the exchange rate for the Norwegian krone to US dollar to hopefully go down. Currently have to pay almost 12 NOK for 1 dollar. I know that doesn't say much to most of you, but that's a LOT.

 

 

I certainly appreciate the sentiment behind your statement. The Australian Dollar c.f. the US Dollar is at the lowest it's been since last millennium. Currently AUS$1 = US $0.60 and no sign of rising. C'est la vie.   

[Jay 37,374]

I asked Mike Matessino about Lerouge's interview comment concerning The Rare Breed, and he gave me this to post here:

 

If there had been an inquiry with Universal about including The Rare Breed, the response would have been that it was a potential future title in their “Classics” series that they would be doing themselves. I suppose that information could have been interpreted as indicating that the title is “in the works,” which it’s not, but it’s not a good idea to discuss a project someone else might be doing. That comment shouldn't have made it into the published version of the interview.

[filmmusic 1,843]

I didn't understand a thing.

The Rare Breed is not in the works, but Lerouge said it is?

[Jay 37,374]

Lerouge said:

 

De même, j’aurais bien aimé que le CD western s’ouvre avec The Rare Breed (Rancho Bravo) mais vu qu’un projet de réédition est déjà en route, c’était un peu compliqué…

 

Translate that how you will.

[ciarlese 251]

8 hours ago, Thor said:

No one would be happier about those coming out than me (well, except maybe THE REIVERS, which I think is already sufficently represented), but please not NOW. Wait a year or two for the exchange rate for the Norwegian krone to US dollar to hopefully go down. Currently have to pay almost 12 NOK for 1 dollar. I know that doesn't say much to most of you, but that's a LOT. Can't remember it being anywhere near there in my lifetime (it has stayed between 6 and 8, mostly).

You have no guarantee whatsoever that it will go down. In fact, it could even go further up, and potentially next year you will need NOK20 for $1...

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

I asked Mike Matessino about Lerouge's interview comment concerning The Rare Breed, and he gave me this to post here:

 

If there had been an inquiry with Universal about including The Rare Breed, the response would have been that it was a potential future title in their “Classics” series that they would be doing themselves. I suppose that information could have been interpreted as indicating that the title is “in the works,” which it’s not, but it’s not a good idea to discuss a project someone else might be doing. That comment shouldn't have made it into the published version of the interview.

Sure Mike, sure

[Thor 7,521]

Damn! Got my hopes up there for a moment. Oh well....

 

2 hours ago, ciarlese said:

You have no guarantee whatsoever that it will go down. In fact, it could even go further up, and potentially next year you will need NOK20 for $1...

 

True. Even scarier.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

Shame then.

 

 

[crumbs 14,319]

This was one of the scores we were told was found and transferred for protection years ago, right? Same as  Sugarland, even though Williams wanted neither released commercially.

[That_Bloke 115]

11 hours ago, Jay said:

I asked Mike Matessino about Lerouge's interview comment concerning The Rare Breed, and he gave me this to post here:

 

If there had been an inquiry with Universal about including The Rare Breed, the response would have been that it was a potential future title in their “Classics” series that they would be doing themselves. I suppose that information could have been interpreted as indicating that the title is “in the works,” which it’s not, but it’s not a good idea to discuss a project someone else might be doing. That comment shouldn't have made it into the published version of the interview.

 

 

Thank you @Jay and Mike for clarifying and explaining. I can see how - taken without context - Lerouge's comment can be interpreted to mean a release is on its way. 

 

But once you add the background perspective to it, then it makes sense that Lerouge meant a release isn't happening, but merely that another label has rights to the release if that day ever comes.

 

If it happens: great! If not, we still have the suite, and an easily found DVD. 

 

Regards,

Peter

[crumbs 14,319]

What's the audio quality like in that isolated score/SFX track?

[The Lost Folio 183]

11 hours ago, Jay said:

Lerouge said:

 

De même, j’aurais bien aimé que le CD western s’ouvre avec The Rare Breed (Rancho Bravo) mais vu qu’un projet de réédition est déjà en route, c’était un peu compliqué…

 

Translate that how you will.

 

I understand Mike's response. But the French text has no ambiguity: it clearly states that someone is already working on a release. There's no other interpretation possible for that sentence. So if that's not true, then it's a very bizarre statement to make! He might have mixed it up with another title, or he is just misinformed, or whoever edited the interview didn't understand the statement. Instead of asking Mike, someone should ask Lerouge directly.

[That_Bloke 115]

16 hours ago, crumbs said:

What's the audio quality like in that isolated score/SFX track?

 

There is no isolated score on the dvd (I found it for $5 at Kmart, back when Kmart used to sell dvds). However, nearly all of the score happens as "scene filler" or scene changes, i.e. when there's no dialogue nor too many sfx, so the score can still be clearly heard. 

[Jay 37,374]

9 hours ago, crumbs said:

This was one of the scores we were told was found and transferred for protection years ago, right? 

 

Yeah

[Bespin 8,484]

8 hours ago, The Lost Folio said:

 

I understand Mike's response. But the French text has no ambiguity: it clearly states that someone is already working on a release. There's no other interpretation possible for that sentence. So if that's not true, then it's a very bizarre statement to make! He might have mixed it up with another title, or he is just misinformed, or whoever edited the interview didn't understand the statement. Instead of asking Mike, someone should ask Lerouge directly.

 

I think Lerouge doesn't know anything else than what was told to him: we can't give you permission to use a track from "The Rare Breed" as there's already a project planned for it. Whether this project is potential or real. Period.

 

Matessino's comment seems to be that of a frustrated individual because a secret project has been unveiled (and perhaps because he was not involved in the 20 CD project...); sorry for him.