Jerry Goldsmith's INCHON (1981) - 2024 Intrada 3-CD Complete

[JTN 2,031]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

Huh, given that track record and the randomness of the digital releases, I didn't even bother checking, but it is. Ironic Of course disc 2 track 1 and 2 are switched.

 

1 hour ago, JTW said:

I have it, can send it to you if you like.

Thanks for your reply, man.  Still holding a grudge, I see. Well, anyway, I tried. Should you change your mind, drop me a PM. 

[Holko 9,529]

10 minutes ago, JTW said:

 

Thanks for your reply, man.  Still holding a grudge, I see. Well, anyway, I tried. Should you change your mind, drop me a PM. 

No need to uselessly make a thing out of nothing again. I saw the post that basically answered my nonrequest completely, replied and missed yours after it. Sorry. Thanks but it's moot now.

[JTN 2,031]

I'm not making anything out of anything, just was curious why you ignored my friendly offer, that's all.  

 

Btw you're saying Intrada managed to screw it up AGAIN?

[Brundlefly 2,385]

The samples sound very well, some tracks are a noticable improvement. Still, I think of this more as a fix than a new release. People who bought the 2020 version should get a free copy.

[Holko 9,529]

35 minutes ago, JTW said:

Btw you're saying Intrada managed to screw it up AGAIN?

?

[Bespin 8,484]

I love Intrada's marketing line, "we reissue it AGAIN." Hehe. Perhaps it's my cue to discover this score for the first time.

[JTN 2,031]

4 hours ago, Holko said:

Ironic Of course disc 2 track 1 and 2 are switched.

 

[Holko 9,529]

9 minutes ago, JTW said:

 

Nah, that's on the streaming version, so they screwed up but years ago for the previous iteration.

[JTN 2,031]

21 minutes ago, Holko said:

Nah, that's on the streaming version, so they screwed up but years ago for the previous iteration.

Oh, I see.

[Jay 37,369]

Roger says:

 

Intrada Announces Inchon...again!

 

That's right! Intrada is putting out Inchon again! Since the previous release, Intrada has gained access to the original 1/4″ 2-track masters that were identified as "safeties" which are masters created "just in case" something happens to the full, multitrack session tapes. Composer Jerry Goldsmith and engineer Len Engel always preferred using these multitrack sources back when they produced the original albums, and Intrada continued to leverage these for subsequent releases. Once available, Intrada decided to review these safety copies and discovered that everyone was too quick to dismiss them back in the day as they had superior sound, allowing Inchon to shine better than ever. Faced with the quandary of letting these masters languish or putting out a new edition only four years after the previous one, Intrada decided to ignore any potential grumbling from collectors and offer a new release for those that missed it the first 20 times, as well as those who would appreciate the upgraded sonics.

This new edition includes the three programs from the prior release. A a quick reminder: The first two are the same as previously released—the original LP presentation as Goldsmith had initially presented his score, plus a second disc featuring the complete score, retaining all of Goldsmith's assemblies from the LP presentation. The third disc features the entire, unassembled score in film order. This allows listeners to hear openings and closings of many tracks previously unheard. As an added bonus, those insatiable listeners can now enjoy several new “extras” not previously released that contain early finished takes and slightly altered versions of cues that Goldsmith discarded. Technically, these new additions make minimal musical contributions to what was already available, but they now give listeners virtually everything Goldsmith recorded during those 1982 sessions.

Note that the digital release will only contain the contents of disc 1 and disc 2.

The film may be forgotten, but what lives on is Jerry Goldsmith's dynamic, colorful and percussive score. The score features an augmented percussion section, including snares, bass drum, cymbals, timpani, triangle, xylophone, woodblocks, boo bams, and many others. At the time of the film's release, Goldsmith had artfully assembled a 38-minute album capturing the highlights and delivering an irresistible listening experience. Intrada has since expanded the score to feature all of Goldsmith's powerful and colorful score.

The 1982 epic chronicles the massive-force invasion of South Korea led by General Douglas MacArthur. The film had all the right ingredients: a cast that included Ben Gazzara, Jacqueline Bisset, and none other than Sir Laurence Olivier in the role of MacArthur; James Bond veteran director Terence Young at the helm; and a world-class composer— the unequaled Jerry Goldsmith, who gave the film its spirit. Nonetheless, the production was plagued with both natural and man-made troubles, resulting in a film that cost over $44M, was cut from its original 140-minute length to 105 minutes when it went into "wide" release in September 1982, closed relatively quickly, and fell into obscurity.

INTRADA ISC 501
Retail Price: $29.99
Bar Code: 720258550101
Starts shipping 2/14. Discs 1 & 2 available digitally 2/27
For track listing and sound samples, please visit the Inchon soundtrack page. https://store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.12981/.f

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/95015405220/posts/10168753039690221/

 

 

Doug says:

 

Intrada again reissues popular Jerry Goldsmith action score! Issued several times previously and selling out each time, Intrada yet again issues popular and exciting score for Korean War drama but with a change of face:. Master elements for the score, recorded in Italy, all survived in several formats with composer Goldsmith and engineer Len Engel working from and preferring the 1” 8-track masters for our initial CD release and reissue. Subsequently, Intrada created new masters from these elements in tandem with the 1/2” 3-channel stereo film mixes, including editing between the formats. Based on assumptions they would prove inferior, the tapes never utilized were the 1/4” safeties, which were stereo mixes made and stored simply as backups in case of damage to all the other rolls of tape. We finally addressed those tapes expecting more of the same notoriously thin dynamics. Happily we were wrong. Reasonably free from blemishes and noise, these rolls proved to have crisper and cleaner audio with improved dynamics, allowing us to rebuild the entire previous 3-CD program with what should be the best audio available… famous last words? There are few guarantees in life, but the excitement and power of this score remains one of them!

 

While the contents are ostensibly identical to the previous three-disc releases, we found a few additional early print takes and alternates were previously unreleased and, while offering no significant musical differences, might make Goldsmith completists just a little bit happier to take yet one more trip to the well. As before, the first CD offers the original 1982 soundtrack album in the best possible sound, the second CD presents the entire score utilizing the editorial assemblies created by the composer and engineer for our earliest reissue and the third CD carries the complete score in unedited fashion so bars at the end of cues previously edited together now play in their entirety. So three different presentations of this magnificent score, each with its own merits!

 

The film itself, chronicling events surrounding the Korean war, had a much-troubled production history that spanned two years, saw the death of cast member David Janssen and ultimately led to the editing of more than a half hour of footage prior to its general release. Happily Goldsmith scored the longer version and all of his music survived in beautiful condition. Other film production credits were top drawer, including Terence Young (of James Bond fame) at the helm and stars Laurence Olivier, Jacqueline Bisset, Ben Gazzara, Toshiro Mifune and Richard Rountree in the cast. Goldsmith’s “Main Title” opens in aggressive, declamatory fashion, an abundance of propulsive energy and jagged rhythm that puts it in a very small family of Goldsmith title music that includes Night Crossing, Capricorn One, Face Of A Fugitive and The Salamander. The score is thematically rich with ideas for not only the conflict, but the locale and specific characters (Lim’s theme is an emotional highlight) as well. A sparingly used love theme and powerful action material for the tank sequences are major assets! Len Engel engineers, Arthur Morton orchestrates, Jerry Goldsmith composes, conducts. Intrada Special Collection 3-CD set available while quantities and interest remain!

 

CD 1 1982 Soundtrack Album
01. Main Title (2:26)
02. Resignation (2:17)
03. The Bridge (3:37)
04. The Church (4:03)
05. The Mines (4:24)
06. Task Force (3:12)
07. Medley (2:18)
08. Love Theme (2:55)
09. The Tanks (3:47)
10. Lim’s Death (3:18)
11. The Trucks (2:58)
12. Inchon Theme (3:28)
Total Time: 38:45
    

CD 2 2006 Score Assembly
01. Prologue And Main Title (3:53)
02. The Bridge (3:37)
03. The 38th Parallel (1:23)
04. Medley (2:18)
05. Love Theme (Album Version) (2:55)
06. The Aftermath (0:55)
07. The Tanks (3:47)
08. A Change Of Course (1:16)
09. The Church (2:29)
10. MacArthur’s Arrival (0:55)
11. The Harbor (1:20)
12. The Trucks (3:08)
13. Corpses (1:21)
14. The Children (Original) (0:51)
15. The Apology (2:43)
16. The Lighthouse (2:34)
17. The Clock Watcher (0:40)
18. The Mines (5:12)
19. Resignation (2:17)
20. The Landing (1:23)
21. Lim’s Death (2:12)
22. The Scroll (2:22)
23. Task Force (3:08)
24. Inchon Theme (3:24)
Total Time: 56:06
    

CD 3 Complete Score In Sequence
01. Prologue (1:41)
02. Main Title (2:26)
03. The Bridge (1:50)
04. The 38th Parallel (1:23)
05. MacArthur (1:00)
06. The Aftermath (0:55)
07. The Tragedy (1:14)
08. Tanks Arrive (1:59)
09. A Change Of Course (1:16)
10. The Church (2:29)
11. MacArthur’s Arrival (0:55)
12. The Harbor (1:20)
13. The Tanks (2:59)
14. The Trucks (3:08)
15. Lim And The Children (1:28)
16. Corpses (1:21)
17. The Pledge (0:39)
18. The Children (Original) (0:51)
19. The Apology (2:43)
20. The Clock Watcher (0:40)
21. The Lighthouse (2:34)
22. The Ships (2:23)
23. The Mines (4:31)
24. Resignation (2:17)
25. The Landing (1:23)
26. Lim’s Death (1:43)
27. The Scroll (2:22)
28. Task Force (Revised) (1:20)
29. Inchon Theme (3:24)
30. Love Theme (Album Version) (2:55)
Total Score Time: 57:17

 

THE EXTRAS
31. The Children (Revised) (0:48)
32. The Ships (Alternate) (2:26)
33. The Bridge (Early Take) (1:49)
34. The Pledge (Early Take) (0:42)
35. The Trucks (Early Take) (3:07)
36. Task Force (Original) (1:20)
Total Extras Time: 13:20
Total CD 3 Time: 67:40

 

https://store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.12981/.f

 

 

[JTN 2,031]

32 minutes ago, Jay said:

Intrada decided to ignore any potential grumbling from collectors and offer a new release for those that missed it the first 20 times

Hahahahaha!

 

At least they are aware how ridiculous the multiple releases of this particular score-issue is and address it with a sense of humor. Nice one, Rog, I hope this will sell out fast. 

[Jay 37,369]

4 minutes ago, JTW said:

Nice one, Doug

 

Read more carefully.  Roger said that, not Doug.

[Holko 9,529]

24 minutes ago, Jay said:

A a quick reminder: The first two are the same as previously released—the original LP presentation as Goldsmith had initially presented his score, plus a second disc featuring the complete score, retaining all of Goldsmith's assemblies from the LP presentation. The third disc features the entire, unassembled score in film order. This allows listeners to hear openings and closings of many tracks previously unheard. As an added bonus, those insatiable listeners can now enjoy several new “extras” not previously released that contain early finished takes and slightly altered versions of cues that Goldsmith discarded. Technically, these new additions make minimal musical contributions to what was already available, but they now give listeners virtually everything Goldsmith recorded during those 1982 sessions.

Note that the digital release will only contain the contents of disc 1 and disc 2.

How thoughtful of them, to lock the sessions-style assembly to the physical release where you can't assemble it properly for yourself without ripping first, and only digitally release the preassembled out of order programs with which you can do nothing. Makes total sense!

[JTN 2,031]

31 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Read more carefully.  Roger said that, not Doug.

Roger roger, Jay, Roger, not Doug. 

 

Btw Jay, I meant it as a compliment for Doug (and obviously Roger, to Intrada), and if Roger says something publically about one of their releases, clearly he speaks on behalf of Doug and the entire Intrada team as well, so you didn't have to be jay and correct someone yet again. But thanks anyway, man.

[Jay 37,369]

It's important to not credit quotations to the wrong person.

[JTN 2,031]

How important is it on a scale of 1 to 10?

[Bespin 8,484]

12 minutes ago, JTW, This detestable little rebel that we'll soon put down!!! said:

How important is it on a scale of 1 to 10?

 

BAN HIM! BAN HIM!

[Holko 9,529]

7 minutes ago, JTW said:

How important is it on a scale of 1 to 10?

Probably less than having a profile picture!

[JTN 2,031]

2 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

BESPIN! BESPIN!

Fixed. 

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

36 minutes ago, Jay said:

It's important to not credit quotations to the wrong person.

 

35 minutes ago, JTW said:

How important is it on a scale of 1 to 10?

“On a scale of 1 to 10, I’d say the importance of crediting quotations to the correct person is an 11, especially on the internet.”

 

— Marcus Aurelius in his book Meditations

[JTN 2,031]

6 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

“On a scale of 1 to 10, I’d say the importance of crediting quotations to the correct person is an 11, especially on the internet.”

 

— Marcus Aurelius in his audiobook Meditations

fixed

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

My mistake.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

Have to admit that this feels like a "not really sure" purchase. I have to admit that I don't particularly understand the point of the 2006 sequencing being included. The original album. Fine. The full score in sequence. Fine. But some intermediate sequence which (I suspect) you could put together from the existing tracks if you so wished seems kinda pointless.

 

It's a bit like if they'd included the older re-release track orders of ET, CE3K or Star Trek:TMP (for example). Now, I'm the first to admit that I actually quite like those album sequences (ST:TMP trims a few of the shorter cues, ET has a couple of alternates that I like, and the Arista CE3K is just the one I got very familiar with so am glad I can recreate it) but am quite happy assembling them as an iTunes playlist (appreciate not everyone listens to their music like this...), and I certainly don't feel I'm missing out by those particular sequencings not being included in the later editions. Having said that, better sound is always a winner... plus it's hard to begrudge them releasing this again given the prior editions are long sold out. I'm sure there are plenty of new Jerry fans who'll be delighted to be able to pick this up.

[Holko 9,529]

7 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I have to admit that I don't particularly understand the point of the 2006 sequencing being included.

Same but at least they're keeping it at a 2CD price so it's only a waste of shelf space, not of customer money.

[JTN 2,031]

22 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I'm sure there are plenty of new Jerry fans who'll be delighted to be able to pick this up.

I think this release is mostly for die-hard fans, and chances are they already have one of the earlier releases, so it's highly likely that most of them, like me, won't triple dip, especially that I bought the 2020 3-CD Set which wasn't cheap back then, and I still haven't listened to it more than once, and not even all three discs. So other than the JG purists, I don't know who's going to get this expensive 3-Disc re-re-re-release of a hardly known JG score that was released with the same exact design and almost identical program a couple of years ago.

 

 

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

3 minutes ago, Holko said:

Same but at least they're keeping it at a 2CD price so it's only a waste of shelf space, not of customer money.

Haha, quite and that's fine. Although I forgot to say in my original post that any editorial assemblies or alternates in the 2006 sequence (seem to be only a couple as far as I can tell) could easily be added as bonus tracks given that the OST is less than 40 minutes and the full thing less than 60. Ah well... better sound is still better sound and I certainly don't begrudge them releasing on that basis (even if they did technically already have them... if I followed the thread correctly!).

[JTN 2,031]

10 minutes ago, Holko said:

Same but at least they're keeping it at a 2CD price so it's only a waste of shelf space, not of customer money.

It's still €53.95 with shipping at Music Box Records, so not too customer friendly for Europeans, but then again, what is nowadays?

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

For what it’s worth, my Goldsmith Odyssey cohosts are planning to record a short Inchon Redux Soundtrack Spotlight episode this evening. I know David is planning to feature some before/after comparisons on it, so anyone on the fence can probably hold off and check that out after it’s edited, to decide whether a re-purchase is warranted for them.

 

I confess I didn’t understand the need for a 3CD set in 2020 or now. One disc with the complete score in chrono film order, and one disc with the original album program + any unique edits from the 2006/1988 expanded program(s) would have worked just great for me. But at least it’s at a $30 price point.

 

Yavar

[JTN 2,031]

I don't remember who said it already, that this feels more like a fix than a new release, and those who already own the 2020 Set, should get a free copy. 

 

 

57 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I confess I didn’t understand the need for a 3CD set in 2020 or now. One disc with the complete score in chrono film order, and one disc with the original album program + any unique edits from the 2006/1988 expanded program(s) would have worked just great

Or at least they should have made a definitive 2-CD Set with a new design like LLL did with Star Trek or JP, so that those who have the previous version would have had a real reason other than just the improved sound quality to get it without the feeling of getting screwed by the label.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

2 hours ago, JTW said:

I don't remember who said it already, that this feels more like a fix than a new release, and those who already own the 2020 Set, should get a free copy. 

 

Except there was nothing actually *wrong* with the 2020 set, any more than the 2013 or 2006 editions. Those all sounded way better than Intrada's original 1988 expansion! So by your logic, Intrada is obligated to send this new 2024 "fix" to all purchasers of those previous four editions of theirs, which all neglected to check/use the Len Engel "safeties" as a source? Yeah, sounds like that would be a great business decision for them.  At a certain point you've gotta let go of the entitlement and realize you aren't obligated to purchase this new version, but them offering an improvement when they become aware of an opportunity for improvement is better than NOT making that improvement available. If you remove the business incentive to put out a new release by kneecapping them with the expectation of them freely replacing all copies of 2020 purchasers, then golly they're just not going to bother offering this new and better sounding version. Surely you can realize that?

 

Hell, even if this new 2024 edition didn't cost them anything to produce and manufacture, the shipping costs alone of sending out your proposed free copies would be astronomical if concentrated on Intrada.

 

2 hours ago, JTW said:

Or at least they should have made a definitive 2-CD Set with a new design like LLL did with Star Trek or JP, so that those who have the previous version would have had a real reason other than just the improved sound quality to get it without the feeling of getting screwed by the label.

 

People who feel screwed are going to just have to get over it, but I suspect there are fewer people in that boat than you think and most previous purchasers are either happy enough with the version they have, or are mega Inchon fans like me and are just happy to have the score in better sound. New cover art to distinguish this version from the last version would have been nice, yes.

 

2 hours ago, JTW said:

So other than the JG purists, I don't know who's going to get this expensive 3-Disc re-re-re-release of a hardly known JG score that was released with the same exact design and almost identical program a couple of years ago.

 

You may not know who's going to get this but I'm guessing Intrada has some idea, since their previous four expanded editions of this score sold really well for them. (Actually I think their 1988 edition sold the worst, but every edition since then has sold better than it did!) When it's Jerry Goldsmith, it seems that it hardly matters if the film is hardly known. I suspect besides "JG purists" there are also some people out there who simply missed out on the 2020 edition and will want to grab this one since the score is rather unexpectedly available on disc again. But even if you're right and interest is limited to "JG purists"... I think that's a lot of people.

 

Yavar

 

[Stark 316]

Slightly late, but does Mummy Returns’ expansion have issues like Mummy’s?

[JTN 2,031]

2 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Yavar

Dude, this is Inchon, not Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

I don't know what that comment means, exactly. Both great scores in my view, and I actually hear quite a few similarities between them. They were, after all, composed and recorded only a year apart from each other. Parts of Inchon sound like the Klingons showed up and it's awesome.

 

1 hour ago, Stark said:

Slightly late, but does Mummy Returns’ expansion have issues like Mummy’s?

 

Botnick had no involvement with that as far as I know, so no. I think I read many people commenting that that release had very similar sound to the leaked sessions, but I haven't done any such comparison myself. That would indicate that a controversial new remix was not undertaken on that title though.

 

Yavar

[Holko 9,529]

7 hours ago, Stark said:

Slightly late, but does Mummy Returns’ expansion have issues like Mummy’s?

6 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

a controversial new remix was not undertaken on that title though.

Right, and the material from the late sessions really doesn't sound good in whatever mix they used. Don't know how good or bad that notoriously rushed recording was and how much a from-scratch mix could improve it though, as it is it's hot, distant feeling but loudened up to be in your face, and near-mono. But no real editing mistakes I think, many cues were not joined. In fact, the big bus setpiece in the movie is a combination of two full takes, and Doug just included both separately, one with a flub as the main version and the other as an alternate, without even attempting to join them as they should be - but I guess with that he at least reduced the chances of a crap edit.

[JTN 2,031]

8 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I don't know what that comment means, exactly.

It means that if this score was as good or famous as ST:TMP, nobody would be complaining about this rerererelase right now, all the comments would be like “Wow, a brand new remaster, improved sound quality, I don’t care about triple dipping, I have to have this new release, because I love both film and score, they are some of the greatest of all time.” Like what fans said when LLL rereleased ST:TMP and gave fans who already had the previous set, a good reason for purchase. I just don’t see it in this case. Sorry.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I don't recall much complaining when LLL redid Home Alone when new tapes were found. I didn't bother getting that, but partly for the reason you say - it's not a score that's important enough to me to need in the absolute best quality. The one I have is fine.

 

I think if you're a massive fan of this score and the samples sound good, it just comes down to another unfortunate case of there not being one obvious best set of tapes. And if you missed the prior releases, it's your lucky day  

 

Tbh the only moment of proper frustration I've had was with the JP reissues - it took me a long time to decide not to buy the first one, and a little less time to decide I did want TLW (stock management being a whole other current world of pain) and in that case I'd vastly prefer to buy a few digital bonus tracks but that option isn't available.

[crocodile 8,017]

Think I will wait to see what the sound differences are. I like the score but two releases I already have might be enough. We shall see.

 

Karol

[Andy 4,138]

I have the second to last edition, the 2CD set.  But honestly I don’t recall it wowing me. I will give it another listen and see if I think I need more of this. 

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

You should!

 

 

Yavar

[Brundlefly 2,385]

In the sample of "The Apology" I can hear the infamous digital clicking noises. Anyone else hear them (from 0:27 to 0:39 in the sample)? This is the same kind of clicks that they had on numerous releases in the past which is clearly not something that was in the source material all along. Are they serious? Again? They let this happen again?

[Trope 527]

3 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

In the sample of "The Apology" I can hear the infamous digital clicking noises. Anyone else hear them (from 0:27 to 0:39 in the sample)? This is the same kind of clicks that they had on numerous releases in the past which is clearly not something that was in the source material all along. Are they serious? Again? They let this happen again?

I did a comparison and the dreaded clicking noise is present in both the 2020 and 2024 versions of "The Apology" (audible and observable by spectrogram). You're sure this is a digital click that isn't present in the source material?

 

EDIT: OH WAIT! Check it out, the clicks happen at different points on the tracks, so it can't have been the source material! This is crazy.

[Chris Malone 49]

Hi Everyone! Having just checked the DDP—which is the package of data sent for CD manufacturing and is unalterable from the point it is packaged—there are no clicks present in this cue.
 

There were clicks, however these were removed prior to this step.

 

The Intrada website samples may not necessarily reflect the final data.

 

Chris

[Trope 527]

5 minutes ago, Chris Malone said:

Hi Everyone! Having just checked the DDP—which is the package of data sent for CD manufacturing and is unalterable from the point it is packaged—there are no clicks present in this cue.
 

There were clicks, however these were removed prior to this step.

 

The Intrada website samples may not necessarily reflect the final data.

 

Chris

Thanks for clarifying Chris! 

[Holko 9,529]

4 hours ago, Trope said:

EDIT: OH WAIT! Check it out, the clicks happen at different points on the tracks, so it can't have been the source material! This is crazy.

So their workflow somewhere has an "add random clicks" step and then later a "get Chris to remove the clicks if somebody notices" step? And then a "make sure we don't represent the actual product with the official samples" step?

[JTN 2,031]

And a “let’s not use the best available master tapes so that we can later re-release it and laugh at those fools who bought the previous release”  step.

 

This is really annoying honestly. I spent good money on Inchon day one in 2020, and now four years later it’s re-released again, only with improved sound quality and different bonus tracks.
Well thank you very much, Intrada for letting us know that our set is inferior, and the only way to get the new one is if we purchase the new set, again for good money, and we can use the old set as door stopper. Outrageous.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

6 hours ago, JTW said:

And a “let’s not use the best available master tapes so that we can later re-release it and laugh at those fools who bought the previous release”  step.

 

So let's see if I have this conspiracy theory of yours right... you think Intrada knew that the Len Engel mixed-down "safeties" sounded better four years ago, and deliberately didn't use them on that release, so that four years later they could make the same "fools" (which is how they think of their customer base) buy it all over again. Is that about it?

 

7 hours ago, JTW said:

This is really annoying honestly. I spent good money on Inchon day one in 2020, and now four years later it’s re-released again, only with improved sound quality and different bonus tracks.

 

Would you have preferred they waited another couple of years? Would that have made it better? Or would you prefer they just keep the better-sounding source they embarrassingly discovered later hush-hush, horde it for their private use but never release it for Goldsmith fans to have the opportunity to buy it? (A source which original recording engineer Len Engel himself dismissed when he worked on Intrada's original expanded edition of the score in 1988, just eight years after he recorded the score for Jerry.)

 

THIS. HAPPENS. ALL. THE. TIME. (It's unusual for it to happen where the earlier generation source sounds worse, that's all.) But I didn't publicly whine about it when La-La Land found a better-sounding source for Danny Elfman's Batman, and then made me re-buy the same master of his Batman Returns as well, in a $60 4CD set when I already had spent that much money on two previous $30 2CD sets. And when the reverse recently happened for the two John Williams Jurassic Park scores, adding some new alternates and such (including previously unreleased film versions!) to the program making me tempted to double dip even though the 4CD set from just a few years earlier sounds almost as good and COULD have fit those alternates? I'm not throwing a public tantrum about that, even though I'm frustrated/annoyed I no longer have the most "definitive" release of those two scores that I thought I had.

 

And heck, I'm such a Goldsmith nut that to have the full set of spines line up on my shelf, I'm probably eventually going to cave and buy Vol. 1 of LLL's Goldsmith at 20th series, even though that volume out of all the volumes neither features new previously unreleased music (even alternates) OR a substantial sound improvement. But those dastardly folk at LLL knew what they were doing when they made THAT volume "Volume 1"... they knew it would nag at me to have Volumes 2-5 sitting next to each other on my shelf, and have that one missing. They're forcing me to spend more money on music I already have! They must be laughing at fools like me who bought their previous release of The Blue Max. Right?

 

7 hours ago, JTW said:

Well thank you very much, Intrada for letting us know that our set is inferior, and the only way to get the new one is if we purchase the new set, again for good money, and we can use the old set as door stopper. Outrageous.

 

Yes, so outrageous that they wouldn't go out of business in order to replace every 2020 edition purchased by people. Actually they should not only have to replace copies for all "duped" purchasers of the 2020, 2013, 2006, AND 1988 editions, all of which used the inferior earlier generation source when the better-sounding "safeties" were *right there* in Len Engel's possession, but I think Doug Fake and Roger Feigelson should be put in prison for fraud at this point, and Intrada auctioned off and the proceeds distributed to all of the victims they have robbed of their good money, over the years.

 

Thank you for taking a brave stand on this grave injustice. You truly inspire us, the victimized customers of Intrada, with your rallying cry.

 

Yavar

[Bespin 8,484]

I think Intrada should offer us a monthly subscription plan so that we can subscribe to 'Inchon'. This way, each year, we could receive the latest edition.

[Holko 9,529]

13 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

So let's see if I have this conspiracy theory of yours right... you think Intrada knew that the Len Engel mixed-down "safeties" sounded better four years ago, and deliberately didn't use them on that release, so that four years later they could make the same "fools" (which is how they think of their customer base) buy it all over again. Is that about it?

 

 

Would you have preferred they waited another couple of years? Would that have made it better? Or would you prefer they just keep the better-sounding source they embarrassingly discovered later hush-hush, horde it for their private use but never release it for Goldsmith fans to have the opportunity to buy it? (A source which original recording engineer Len Engel himself dismissed when he worked on Intrada's original expanded edition of the score in 1988, just eight years after he recorded the score for Jerry.)

 

THIS. HAPPENS. ALL. THE. TIME. (It's unusual for it to happen where the earlier generation source sounds worse, that's all.) But I didn't publicly whine about it when La-La Land found a better-sounding source for Danny Elfman's Batman, and then made me re-buy the same master of his Batman Returns as well, in a $60 4CD set when I already had spent that much money on two previous $30 2CD sets. And when the reverse recently happened for the two John Williams Jurassic Park scores, adding some new alternates and such (including previously unreleased film versions!) to the program making me tempted to double dip even though the 4CD set from just a few years earlier sounds almost as good and COULD have fit those alternates? I'm not throwing a public tantrum about that, even though I'm frustrated/annoyed I no longer have the most "definitive" release of those two scores that I thought I had.

 

And heck, I'm such a Goldsmith nut that to have the full set of spines line up on my shelf, I'm probably eventually going to cave and buy Vol. 1 of LLL's Goldsmith at 20th series, even though that volume out of all the volumes neither features new previously unreleased music (even alternates) OR a substantial sound improvement. But those dastardly folk at LLL knew what they were doing when they made THAT volume "Volume 1"... they knew it would nag at me to have Volumes 2-5 sitting next to each other on my shelf, and have that one missing. They're forcing me to spend more money on music I already have! They must be laughing at fools like me who bought their previous release of The Blue Max. Right?

 

 

Yes, so outrageous that they wouldn't go out of business in order to replace every 2020 edition purchased by people. Actually they should not only have to replace copies for all "duped" purchasers of the 2020, 2013, 2006, AND 1988 editions, all of which used the inferior earlier generation source when the better-sounding "safeties" were *right there* in Len Engel's possession, but I think Doug Fake and Roger Feigelson should be put in prison for fraud at this point, and Intrada auctioned off and the proceeds distributed to all of the victims they have robbed of their good money, over the years.

 

Thank you for taking a brave stand on this grave injustice. You truly inspire us, the victimized customers of Intrada, with your rallying cry.

 

Yavar

So you're still not getting the "problem"? It's not that they now have a newly discovered source that is better than everything they had previously, they had it all this time and never bothered to do their work properly and check it through numerous releases, even for the last, supposedly comprehensive "last word" the previous expansion was presented as. I'd say people who bought it are pretty justified in feeling ripped off.

[Faleel 5,356]

9 minutes ago, Holko said:

So you're still not getting the "problem"?

Obviously he doesn't see it as a problem.

 

16 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

would you prefer they just keep the better-sounding source they embarrassingly discovered later hush-hush, (A source which original recording engineer Len Engel himself dismissed when he worked on Intrada's original expanded edition of the score in 1988, just eight years after he recorded the score for Jerry.)

 

THIS. HAPPENS. ALL. THE. TIME. (It's unusual for it to happen where the earlier generation source sounds worse, that's all.)

 

9 minutes ago, Holko said:

So you're still not getting the "problem"?

 

It's not that they now have a newly discovered source that is better than everything they had previously

It's that they had it all this time and never bothered to do their work properly and check it through numerous releases, even for the last, supposedly comprehensive "last word" the previous expansion was presented as.

 

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

It's unfortunate, and I certainly wish I didn't have to spend $30 + shipping on Inchon again, as I already spent full price on the 2006 and 2020 editions, myself. But I understand why it happened (I too would assume it to be a waste of time and money to transfer tapes later mixed down as backups, rather than the earlier generation source), and I for one appreciate Intrada's honesty about it since they could have just said that a better-sounding source for the score newly turned up, rather than admitting that it was sitting there under their noses the whole time.

 

And again, this isn't the first time this has happened to a label. See Star Trek II.

 

And even if a better source hasn't been uncovered one way or the other, labels have revisited popular selling titles over and over, as with The Blue Max or the Williams JPs I mentioned. The latter had additional alternates/film versions added, similar to how Intrada has now added a few more alternates on Inchon. Of course the labels try to entice some repeat buyers. They have to make a profit on these things in order to keep going.

 

 

But what really pisses me off is the suggestion that Intrada deliberately withheld a better sounding source all these years, just so that they could dupe customers into buying yet another version.

 

Yavar