Jerry Goldsmith's INCHON (1981) - 2024 Intrada 3-CD Complete

[Jay 38,847]

 

Coming 2/13.

 

Why is Intrada releasing INCHON again?

 

Intrada has visited Inchon several times since they initially released their first expanded version back in 1988 and each release has sold out owing to the score’s popularity with Goldsmith aficionados. Each release also has its own anomalies, owing to the oft-discussed less-than-ideal recording circumstances that took place in Italy as well as a number of disparate session master elements. Intrada had access to voluminous rolls of tape, including the 1” 8-track masters, which themselves were folded down from the 2” 16-track tapes, numerous ½” 3-track dubdown masters which contained the mixes made for stereo prints of the picture and the ¼” 2-track stereo print masters, which were primarily identified as “safeties” by session engineer Len Engel. We also had both rolls of the original Regency ¼” album masters that included all of the edits that Goldsmith and Engel had out together for the 1982 LP. So that all adds up to a lot of tape!

 

But each of those formats had audio issues that were compensated for by various means such as the DBX noise-reduction system championed by Inchon’s original recording engineer Engel back in the day, the Aphex Aural Exciter processing unit which he also utilized, and an artificial boosting of the high end to deal with issues on the multi-tracks that likely dated all the way back to the initial 1982 recording sessions and subsequent “dubdowns” made by Engel for the film soundtrack and subsequent record album.

 

All of our previous releases of Inchon have been assembled and mastered from the various multi-track formats. We have worked with both Goldsmith and Engel’s initial expanded elements that were approved for Intrada’s first release of the score by the composer as well as subsequent remixes for later reissues in which we dropped the Aphex Aural Exciter processing that seemed to create audio issues of its own. The only thing we did not work with were the ¼” stereo safeties, making the same assumption that Goldsmith and Engel had determined: everything in the massive chain of tapes ahead of the safeties would be superior.

 

But we were wrong. These ¼” mixes were leagues ahead of all the other elements we had gone through. So in all fairness to those two artists who had originally composed, conducted and engineered this powerhouse score, we simply had to go back to square one and reassemble and remaster our last 3-CD release, this time using those ¼” elements and allowing their work to sound better than it ever did before

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/95015405220/posts/10168742190290221/

[mstrox 6,818]

That Intrada… you give ‘em an Inchon they’ll take a mile.

[crocodile 8,372]

You know, I was this close of making a joke about this when they announced some Goldsmith. 😆

 

Karol

[Holko 10,020]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

The only thing we did not work with were the ¼” stereo safeties, making the same assumption that Goldsmith and Engel had determined: everything in the massive chain of tapes ahead of the safeties would be superior.

You have them, you worked on the score multiple times, how hard was it to just listen to them? Wouldn't that be step 0, determining exactly what you have and how usable it is?

 

This reminds me of the Varese Dracula situation with the better source being right there under their nose but nobody bothering to look, except maybe even worse because they did actually put a lot of work into all the other sources they did bother to look at instead.

[Brundlefly 2,392]

As insightful as this text is (I mean, they admit that they could have been more meticulous), having bought the highly deficient 2020 release I feel a little annoyed now.

 

This one really has to be the perfect release, absolutely complete, consistent volume, no clicks and a clear step up in sound - anything else would be galling.

[A. A. Ron 1,847]

They’re really incapable of running any sort of a tight ship over there, aren’t they?

[The Great Gonzales 6,048]

"Don't you dare use the 1/4" safeties or else!" - Goldsmith and Engel

[bruce marshall 1,351]

[Holko 10,020]

If they really know how fucked up this is, then this'll be 15-20 bucks max, or sent at a very discounted price of 5-10 to anyone showing proof of purchase and ownership for the previous one, or they'll send the digital files for free for the same. Let's see which one happens.

[Tydirium 1,228]

Well, now I’m regretting buying the 2020 one on the secondhand market just last fall… How many times are they going to redo this thing???

[Holko 10,020]

Will they now redo notorious releases like Mummy and Sleepy Hollow with the same covers to confuse people? Can we trust them to do anything right?

[The Great Gonzales 6,048]

1 minute ago, Holko said:

Will they now redo notorious release like Mummy and Intrada with the same covers to confuse people? Can we trust them to do anything right?

Ironic (fitting?)

 

 

[A. A. Ron 1,847]

They won’t redo The Mummy because that one actually needs it.

[Andy 5,005]

@Holko @A. A. Ron What issues are there with the Mummy?  It’s on my wishlist. 

 

I have the second to previous release of Inchon.  I can’t say it left a dazzling impression. Maybe I should give it another listen. 

[A. A. Ron 1,847]

  

11 hours ago, Andy said:

@Holko @A. A. Ron What issues are there with the Mummy?  It’s on my wishlist. 

 

I have the second to previous release of Inchon.  I can’t say it left a dazzling impression. Maybe I should give it another listen. 

 

In brief, the Intrada album suffers from:

 

- A controversial and weirdly inconsistent new mix that brings some instruments forward at the expense of others that got reduced or maybe even outright omitted

- Multiple seconds of phasing where they edited between takes on "Night Boarders"

- Some nasty static near the end of "The Camel Race"

- Volume fluctuations within tracks and non-matching volume levels between the expanded program on Disc 1 and the OST on Disc 2

- Misspelled track titles

- Intrada's usual poorly done artwork

 

But the gravest sin is that they included tracked music in the main program, notably in "Airplane Fight" and the film version of the End Credits. Goldsmith's superior intended version of the latter cue absolutely should have closed out the main program.

 

As far as Inchon goes, I mostly just listen to the suite from Tadlow’s Blue Max album.

[Holko 10,020]

1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

Some nasty static near the end of "The Camel Race"

About which they said that they can do nothing, it's there in the source. Meanwhile the cue is right fucking there in the OST master on disc 2 without the static.

Step 0 towards fixing them would have to be admitting their fuckups, which they haven't done for Mummy or Sleepy Hollow. They even fixed the disc 1 gap issue for the latter while denying the existence of editing mistakes of the other discs.

[Trope 712]

45 minutes ago, Holko said:

About which they said that they can do nothing, it's there in the source. Meanwhile the cue is right fucking there in the OST master on disc 2 without the static.

Step 0 towards fixing them would have to be admitting their fuckups, which they haven't done for Mummy or Sleepy Hollow. They even fixed the disc 1 gap issue for the latter while denying the existence of editing mistakes of the other discs.

The more I hear about these mistakes on Intrada releases I came very close to purchasing, the more concerned I become about their upcoming releases. Maybe they should stick to releasing niche Goldsmith scores over and over again, and leave important scores by him and other major composers (Williams, Horner, Elfman, etc.) to La-La Land and Quartet, who seem to know what they’re doing. 
 

Oh, and Varèse can go bankrupt as far as I’m concerned. Maybe they could even sell their catalogue off to LLL and make life easier for the rest of us!

[Richard Penna 4,030]

On 10/02/2024 at 5:01 AM, A. A. Ron said:

  In brief, the Intrada album suffers from:

 

- A controversial and weirdly inconsistent new mix that brings some instruments forward at the expense of others that got reduced or maybe even outright omitted

- Multiple seconds of phasing where they edited between takes on "Night Boarders"

- Some nasty static near the end of "The Camel Race"

- Volume fluctuations within tracks and non-matching volume levels between the expanded program on Disc 1 and the OST on Disc 2

- Misspelled track titles

- Intrada's usual poorly done artwork

 

But the gravest sin is that they included tracked music in the main program, notably in "Airplane Fight" and the film version of the End Credits. Goldsmith's superior intended version of the latter cue absolutely should have closed out the main program.

 

I agree with most of these and disagree with some.

 

I'm going to defend the inclusion of the tracked Airplane Flight cue because we're not talking about a scene where the intended cue was dropped and another cue put there in which case obviously the intended cue should be there. It's even possible Goldsmith himself decided that that material worked and due to the insane time crunch asked the editors to drop that section in, instead of recording a new version. Had they gone the re-record route, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all - it just feels bizarre to me that in specific cases like this (or for example the Halloween cue in Potter 1) there's such antagonism towards a cue just because it wasn't written for that scene, despite that a re-recording to fit the scene would sound 99% the same. A cue early on in Sleepy Hollow turned out to be tracked from an alternate of another cue but I would guarantee that the first time any of us realised it was tracked was when it was missing from Intrada's set. It sounds like an original cue, it's not replacing Elfman's finest moment and hence I put it where it's heard in the film.

 

However...

 

That phasing in Night Boarders... yep, it's awful and given that only an edit point could produce such an artifact, how the hell do you not notice that?

 

The new mix is just all over the place - it's like the orchestra was rotated such that instruments that should be somewhere in the middle are pushed right into your earhole, the synths were pushed forward in the mix and all sorts of wonderful details are hidden. The isolated score is a more pleasant listen and I kept one cue from it due to the mix in this set.

 

The end credits - I can live with them including it for those who want it, but ideally Goldsmith's two original bits would have been presented cleanly in isolated fashion. In fact, I've kept the OSTs for both Mummy scores becuase of the issues both expansions have.

 

On 10/02/2024 at 6:25 AM, Holko said:

Step 0 towards fixing them would have to be admitting their fuckups, which they haven't done for Mummy or Sleepy Hollow. They even fixed the disc 1 gap issue for the latter while denying the existence of editing mistakes of the other discs.

 

Sleepy Hollow needed a second pair of ears on a ton of the edits, of which there are millions due to the hellish production of this score. Aside from the Final Confrontation, there are three or four other transitions which the OST does a lot smoother.

 

I'd also really have preferred Mike's approach of listening to what's in the film to choose the utilised takes where possible (given the materials) instead of relying on the circled takes on paperwork which in this case has proven to be one of the most unreliable indicators I've ever seen. I don't usually like to tell pros how to do their work, but any of us lot could've taken one listen to the album and immediately told them where their paperwork was wrong.

 

Having said all that, I'd rather have what we do have instead of only incomplete sessions. It's too easy to get distracted by the flaws and not recognise the 95% of goodness we do get.

[Davis 2,758]

I will instantly buy a newly remastered version of THE MUMMY. 
I’m not buying a

newly remastered version of the remastered version of the remastered version of Inchon…

[bruce marshall 1,351]

[A. A. Ron 1,847]

Always revelling in it whenever your fellow score fans are unhappy about something. Stay classy Bruce.

[Brundlefly 2,392]

17 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

 But the gravest sin is that they included tracked music in the main program, notably in "Airplane Fight" and the film version of the End Credits. Goldsmith's superior intended version of the latter cue absolutely should have closed out the main program.

The scandalous thing here is that it is not something to make up for the lack of a especially recorded end credits suite in order to elegantly close the main program - there already was an end credits suite, a really great one! Why on earth you need to replace it with that horrible compilation?! This decision is still baffling!

 

15 hours ago, Trope said:

The more I hear about these mistakes on Intrada releases I came very close to purchasing, the more concerned I become about their upcoming releases. Maybe they should stick to releasing niche Goldsmith scores over and over again, and leave important scores by him and other major composers (Williams, Horner, Elfman, etc.) to La-La Land and Quartet, who seem to know what they’re doing.

The concern is very justified, they got themselves into that and they have to get out of it by themselves. The Hollow Man release was just the big showdown of carelessness for me, cause it gives you a hundred reason to purchase it again, when a fixed version will be released one day. LLL would just have waited (as they did with Hook) until they got all the needed tapes to make it a complete release and have employed competent staff for mastering and artwork.

 

17 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

 As far as Inchon goes, I mostly just listen to the suite from Tadlow’s Blue Max album.

If they would end up re-recording the whole thing, I'd never ever dare to just think of the original recording any more.

[Richard Penna 4,030]

1 hour ago, Brundlefly said:

The scandalous thing here is that it is not something to make up for the lack of a especially recorded end credits suite in order to elegantly close the main program - there already was an end credits suite, a really great one! Why on earth you need to replace it with that horrible compilation?! This decision is still baffling!

 

I don't understand this - I thought the compilation was exactly that - something to make up for the lack of a recorded suite. You say 'there already was an end credits suite' - what or where is that?

 

Goldsmith's original end credit pieces are the love theme statement (heard right at the start) followed by Rick's theme. All the tracked stuff begins with the Imhotep statement. I haven't listened to what's in the film in a little while, but is there another original piece that was intended to go there? I don't think there is - happy to be corrected.

[Brundlefly 2,392]

"The Sand Volcano" from 2:14 to finish is the end credits suite consisting of Rick's Theme and the Love Theme. Three and a half minutes rounding off the album in wonderful and musical fashion. The haphazard film edit of the end credits - I would not include that, not only because it has no new music to offer, but also because it has some very unmusical and jarring transitions, which are downright offensive to the creator of this music. The end credits of Total Recall, for example, are a different matter - there was no end credits music composed or recorded, so the recreation of the film edit served to round off the album and to include the transition between the tracked cues which was in fact recorded for this purpose only.

[Jay 38,847]

For Total Recall, Jerry actually did record a little transition piece for the end credits, so while the existing recordings are used, they are bridged with a unique bit that isn't heard anywhere else.

[Davis 2,758]

On 10/02/2024 at 11:41 PM, Brundlefly said:

and have employed competent staff for mastering and artwork.

I don’t understand why they can’t hire Mike or Chris to do their releases. And hire Jim Titus to do the artwork. Must be vanity and sparing money on Doug Fake’s part. 

[Richard Penna 4,030]

20 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

"The Sand Volcano" from 2:14 to finish is the end credits suite consisting of Rick's Theme and the Love Theme. Three and a half minutes rounding off the album in wonderful and musical fashion.

 

Ah yes, the two pieces at the end of that are Goldsmith's original cues. Both of those are in the film's credits; just the other way round, so my point was really that the tracked material itself is not replacing any intended material.

 

As for the rearranged suite, I'll still defend the content - the selection and ordering of cues I think is rather good. However Goldsmith only wrote those first 3 minutes of music so the remaining 5 minutes or so of credits music had to come from somewhere.

 

The editing in the film version - the final one from The Caravan to the first bit of Sand Volcano isn't very good I agree, and Intrada got it completely wrong. They also got the very first edit wrong too - it's overall a very poor editorial effort.

[Yavar Moradi 2,879]

On 11/02/2024 at 9:28 AM, JTW said:

I don’t understand why they can’t hire Mike or Chris to do their releases. And hire Jim Titus to do the artwork. Must be vanity and sparing money on Doug Fake’s part. 

They do hire Mike and/or Chris on some releases. They both were involved with Take Her, She’s Mine for example:

https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/6920147-odyssey-soundtrack-spotlight-take-her-she-s-mine-1963
 

Of course they hire Mike on all of the Williams scores they do, plus a few additional ones here and there when Mike has time (he’s a pretty busy guy!)

As for Chris, I think he works for Intrada on an even more frequent basis. He’s largely responsible for the Battle Beyond the Stars restoration sounding so good, for example. Doug often gives him a shout out in the product description when he works on a release. Here’s Chris and Doug talking about working together on the recent MacArthur 2CD:

https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/14140529-odyssey-soundtrack-spotlight-macarthur-1977
 

As for artwork, my impression is that Intrada stays with Kay Marshall out of loyalty more than budgetary considerations. She was their longtime designer Joe Sikoryak's assistant. (How many releases did LLL have David C. Fein do the art direction on, over the years? Remember Bad Girls and The Edge?)

 

Intrada has employed Jim Titus on more than one occasion, actually. I personally found his cover for Black Patch to be something of a rare misfire.

 

Yavar

[Davis 2,758]

Too bad they don’t work with them on all the other prominent releases, because when they don’t, we have fiascos like Inchon and others that have been mentioned. 

[Yavar Moradi 2,879]

I think it’s both extreme to describe Inchon as a “fiasco”, as well as acting like every Intrada release not worked on by Chris or Mike has issues. But starting out by acting like Intrada never works with Chris or Mike (or even Jim Titus) was already evidence of the criticism being as sloppy as Intrada is accused of being.

 

Not saying they’re perfect. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes. I hope they’ll revisit The Mummy some day — but it was hardly Intrada’s fault if you have issues with that. They employed none other than Bruce Botnick to do that program (I’m pretty sure he both supplied the masters and handled the new stereo remix that some people liked but many hated), so if you’ve got issues I think you’ll have to take it up with him.

 

Yavar

[Thor 8,114]

I've actually never owned INCHON in any shape or form. I assume no one has seen the track titles for this new release yet, but I'm hoping it would be possible to replicate the 1982 album via the track titles.

[Yavar Moradi 2,879]

Actually if this is 3CDs like their last version, Disc 1 will be the original LP album program: 

 

So you'll be all set. Seems like a good time to brush up on this really good score!

 

Yavar

 

[Thor 8,114]

Nice!

[Davis 2,758]

1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I think it’s both extreme to describe Inchon as a “fiasco”

Then how would you describe it?
And all the other cases that other members brought up? Like The Last Starfighter, Sleepy Hollow, Hollow Man…

[Yavar Moradi 2,879]

On 12/02/2024 at 2:36 PM, JTW said:

Then how would you describe it?

 

The fact that on previous editions of Inchon, Intrada opted to go back to the original mastertapes rather than Len Engel's old "safety" mixdown? I'd say that the decision makes perfect sense. I would have probably done the same thing. It's very rare (if not outright bizarre) for the earlier generation source(s) to not sound better. 

 

On 12/02/2024 at 2:36 PM, JTW said:

And all the other cases that other members brought up? Like The Last Starfighter, Sleepy Hollow, Hollow Man…

 

That's three titles. You and others are acting like EVERY Intrada release has some major error, and it's really tiresome the way folks smell blood in the water or something and just gang up on Intrada, while acting as if LLL is somehow the epitome of perfection. No complaints about all the versions of Die Hard they produced, as better sources were found to yield better-sounding albums? Not going to personally attack MV and Matt there for the sloppy issues with the original expansions of things like Home Alone or Hook (which we only know recently from Mike Matessino were largely the fault of Didier Deutsch)? Yeah, they fixed the missing mixing bowls on The Challenge, but even they occasionally put out releases with errors that don't get fixed. If Intrada had been the ones to expand The Mask of Zorro and left off the big "W" on the big opening page, somehow I have a feeling that many people here would be chalking it up on their Intrada shit list as another "fiasco". 

 

Now The Last Starfighter again has to do with which elements were used, and it seems a somewhat similar situation to Inchon in that the earlier generation elements for whatever reason just did not have the same punch. And were there any quality control issues with either edition of The Last Starfighter, or was it just people's taste about the mix? As it is it seems like some people were really happy to get an edition from the original master tapes, whereas others were very grateful to get the punchier edition taken from a mixdown.

 

The issue with Sleepy Hollow was the gaps that showed up on the original album presentation, right? The 2CD program of the complete score was totally fine right? And then once the issue was pointed out to Intrada with the original album program, they fixed it and sent out replacement discs for free. So what's your complaint?

 

As for Hollow Man, it's a fair point that there were some issues with that release even though I was very glad to get it, overall. Part of that has to do with what elements Bruce Botnick had on hand to provide to Intrada for the release. Similarly to Looney Tunes DE on Varese, there were a few alternate (sometimes film) versions missing on the material he provided. But my criticism of Intrada here would have more to do with not making a careful A/B comparison with the existing original Varese album, which contained at least one important unique alternate which Intrada omitted from their release. So yeah, I'll grant you this release wasn't perfect but calling it a "fiasco" again is over the top to say the least.

 

Yavar

[Richard Penna 4,030]

13 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

The issue with Sleepy Hollow was the gaps that showed up on the original album presentation, right? The 2CD program of the complete score was totally fine right? And then once the issue was pointed out to Intrada with the original album program, they fixed it and sent out replacement discs for free. So what's your complaint.

 

Not quite. There's a fairly major editing snafu in The Final Confrontation which, even if it were in the source they received, is something I'm surprised they didn't notice and fix. For us editors it's an easy fix so I'm not overly bothered, personally.

 

Otherwise the transitions between takes (and there are a motherload of them) are in one or two places a little bit in need of a smoothout. Other than that though it sounds fine to me and I'm very grateful to have it.

 

To be honest with The Mummy... 99% of my qualms are just the new mix by Botnik. It's very, very different to the film and the album and takes some getting used to. However, it's punchier and clearer overall than the isolated score so in most tracks I don't mind it. I'd say that only in three or four tracks are the positions/prominence of the instruments a negative impact on the sound.

[The Great Gonzales 6,048]

11 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

The fact that on previous editions of Inchon, Intrada opted to go back to the original mastertapes rather than Len Engel's old "safety" mixdown? I'd say that the decision makes perfect sense. I would have probably done the same thing. It's very rare (if not outright bizarre) for the earlier generation source(s) to not sound better. 

 

 

That's three titles. You and others are acting like EVERY Intrada release has some major error, and it's really tiresome the way folks smell blood in the water or something and just gang up on Intrada, while acting as if LLL is somehow the epitome of perfection. No complaints about all the versions of Die Hard they produced, as better sources were found to yield better-sounding albums? Not going to personally attack MV and Matt there for the sloppy issues with the original expansions of things like Home Alone or Hook (which we only know recently from Mike Matessino were largely the fault of Didier Deutsch)? Yeah, they fixed the missing mixing bowls on The Challenge, but even they occasionally put out releases with errors that don't get fixed. If Intrada had been the ones to expand The Mask of Zorro and left off the big "W" on the big opening page, somehow I have a feeling that many people here would be chalking it up on their Intrada shit list as another "fiasco". 

 

Now The Last Starfighter again has to do with which elements were used, and it seems a somewhat similar situation to Inchon in that the earlier generation elements for whatever reason just did not have the same punch. And were there any quality control issues with either edition of The Last Starfighter, or was it just people's taste about the mix? As it is it seems like some people were really happy to get an edition from the original master tapes, whereas others were very grateful to get the punchier edition taken from a mixdown.

 

The issue with Sleepy Hollow was the gaps that showed up on the original album presentation, right? The 2CD program of the complete score was totally fine right? And then once the issue was pointed out to Intrada with the original album program, they fixed it and sent out replacement discs for free. So what's your complaint.

 

As for Hollow Man, it's a fair point that there were some issues with that release even though I was very glad to get it, overall. Part of that has to do with what elements Bruce Botnick had on hand to provide to Intrada for the release. Similarly to Looney Tunes DE on Varese, there were a few alternate (sometimes film) versions missing on the material he provided. But my criticism of Intrada here would have more to do with not making a careful A/B comparison with the existing original Varese album, which contained at least one important unique alternate which Intrada omitted from their release. So yeah, I'll grant you this release wasn't perfect but calling it a "fiasco" again is over the top to say the least.

 

Yavar

What about the Hocus Pocus incident? (Or was it Return to Oz?)

[Yavar Moradi 2,879]

7 minutes ago, Faleel said:

What about the Hocus Pocus incident? (Or was it Return to Oz?)

 

So you had a major issue with something and you can't even be specific about what the issue was or which release it pertained to?

[The Great Gonzales 6,048]

7 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

So you had a major issue with something and you can't even be specific about what the issue was or which release it pertained to?

No, I just remember others having some issues, and then getting blasted and insulted by the label heads when they pointed them out.

[Richard Penna 4,030]

11 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

As for Hollow Man, it's a fair point that there were some issues with that release even though I was very glad to get it, overall. Part of that has to do with what elements Bruce Botnick had on hand to provide to Intrada for the release.

 

I did some extended sampling of Hollow Man and tbh couldn't really identify any of the alleged issues, sound-wise.

 

Although it reminds me of something that came to mind when listening to LLL's The Edge years ago when I was comparing the DVD with one of the later tracks and the expansion had very slightly muddier sound to my ears (I'm generally very sensitive to the position and prominence of instruments). It occurred to me simply that what went in the film or OST would've been fresh off the recording stage whereas the expansion materials had 15 years to lose their crispiness. Even Mike's new film version of Journey to the Island doesn't 100% match the film to my ears.

 

Hence I'm not going to queue up to attack a label if there are indications that a project had major challenges with finding elements, their condition and completeness.

 

I was actually really impressed by the clarity and rawness of the sound of Sleepy Hollow at first - it took several listens before I even noticed some of the editing flaws. I think Doug just needs to take a little bit more attention and care occasionally when moving between takes, generally.

[Trope 712]

Overall, I agree that all the specialty labels have their respective lists of fumbles/issues when it comes to expanded releases, in terms of sound quality, editing issues, artwork/design, etc.

 

However, from my limited understanding (as I've only been collecting expanded scores for 2-3 years) I've seen that people online seem to have consistent issues with Douglass Fake's editing and mastering work, an issue which only applies to Intrada. I have enormous respect for the excellent work the company has done, and he should be respected and applauded for being its CEO and founder. But if his editing/mastering skills are not up to scratch with others in the same field who work on these expanded scores (and many of whom have worked on Intrada's expansions), it seems like a foolish (or selfish even) thing to decide that he will go ahead and do this work anyway, when there are others who are simply better at the job.

 

Given that these labels are so niche in the wider scope of music releases, and given the extreme amounts of time and effort that go into each release, you would hope the priority would be on creating the best presentation (and preservation) of each and every score (both for composer and consumer sakes). But when it so happens that after the bulk of the work has been completed in financing, sourcing, retrieving, remixing, approvals, etc. the CEO decides that he likes doing a little bit of editing and mastering here and there, even if he's not the greatest at it, and ends up tarnishing (or at the least, diminishing) the final product, that doesn't sit right with me as a consumer. There's nothing wrong with admitting that there are others better than you at a particular task and allowing them to perform that task instead of you; in fact, more people would respect that decision as it shows a commitment to producing the best product, rather than doubling down and continuing to haphazardly do the work yourself. 

 

SIDE NOTE: The same goes for Kay Marshall as design director; I (and it seems many others too) don't find her designs for Intrada add value to the premium products they are selling, and actually lessen their visual appeal. I know this is nowhere near as important as good sound quality, but again, Intrada are creating exclusive, limited releases, so why shouldn't they look as good as possible? Imagine going to buy a new high-performance sports car; all the specs are incredible and it feels amazing to drive, but it's got a terrible paint job. I understand remaining loyal to someone who has been with the company since the early days, but if there are others who can do the job better, they should be hired instead.

 

I don't work for Intrada, so I don't know the ins and outs of the business and why certain decisions are and aren't made. I'm just speaking as a consumer. Blast and lambast me all you like, but I've supported this label with plenty of my own money, and several of their releases I really do love (like Apollo 13, Cocoon, and The Land Before Time). I hope they are able to address and solve these ongoing issues so that I will have greater confidence in the quality of their products going forward and continue to support their work.

[Holko 10,020]

47 minutes ago, Trope said:

The Land Before Time

Ah that was another one, where they told us they had a better more flexible source but stuck with the premixed preedited one because it was quicker, easier and lazier, even though it has a really nasty hard performance edit or two between very differently done takes.

[Yavar Moradi 2,879]

… and they fixed it, and sent out replacement discs to anyone who wanted one. So… good example of Intrada responding to fair criticism with excellent customer service?

 

Yavar

[Holko 10,020]

8 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

No complaints about all the versions of Die Hard they produced, as better sources were found to yield better-sounding albums?

Did they have those better sources in front if their noses when doing the previous editions and did they choose to ignore them?

8 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Not going to personally attack MV and Matt there for the sloppy issues with the original expansions of things like Home Alone or Hook (which we only know recently from Mike Matessino were largely the fault of Didier Deutsch)?

What sloppy issues in HA? For Hook they were stuck with Sony's lazy producer who made sure only he can only do the project and then fucked it up, also Sony couldn't find shit. Not much to do with MV and Matt  it's not like they were unhumble enough to do it themselves and mess things up, they know others will do a much better job, the other in this case happened to have had to be an idiot.

8 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

If Intrada had been the ones to expand The Mask of Zorro and left off the big "W" on the big opening page, somehow I have a feeling that many people here would be chalking it up on their Intrada shit list as another "fiasco". 

Obvious printing plant/final layerwork accidents are made fun of like the JP missing teeth, but they're a completely different league to consistent shoddy clone tool/mirroring/stretching work on the front cover with no proper colour grade and mismatching font choices, in addition to uninspired formulaic design elements everywhere else and consistently really weak image choices in prominent places where iconic shots would fit.

8 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

The 2CD program of the complete score was totally fine right? And then once the issue was pointed out to Intrada with the original album program, they fixed it and sent out replacement discs for free.

Hahahahahaha

1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

… and they fixed it, and sent out replacement discs to anyone who wanted one. So… good example of Intrada responding to fair criticism with excellent customer service?

 

Yavar

Oh, did they? I missed that. Reading back through the posts, it seems to me they only addressed an other, separate issue, a performance edit that was NOT recreated.

[Davis 2,758]

Instead of rererererereleasing Inchon, Intrada should’ve made more copies of JAWS. 

[Holko 10,020]

On 09/02/2024 at 6:05 AM, Holko said:

If they really know how fucked up this is, then this'll be 15-20 bucks max, or sent at a very discounted price of 5-10 to anyone showing proof of purchase and ownership for the previous one, or they'll send the digital files for free for the same. Let's see which one happens.

well...

 

https://store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.12981/.f

 

samples don't sound bad at all but they of course removed the old release from the store so I can't compare until I'll get home and pirate

[HunterTech 1,163]

47 minutes ago, Holko said:

well...

 

https://store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.12981/.f

 

samples don't sound bad at all but they of course removed the old release from the store so I can't compare until I'll get home and pirate

 

Is the 2020 edition not on streaming in your country? Given your track record, I'm gonna guess no.

[Davis 2,758]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

samples don't sound bad at all but they of course removed the old release from the store so I can't compare until I'll get home and pirate

I have it, can send it to you if you like.

[Holko 10,020]

57 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

 

Is the 2020 edition not on streaming in your country? Given your track record, I'm gonna guess no.

Huh, given that track record and the randomness of the digital releases, I didn't even bother checking, but it is. Ironic Of course disc 2 track 1 and 2 are switched.

[The Great Gonzales 6,048]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

Huh, given that track record and the randomness of the digital releases, I didn't even bother checking, but it is. Ironic Of course disc 2 track 1 and 2 are switched.

WOULDN’T THAT BE STEP 0!!!!??!?

 

 

 

😉