Pieter Boelen

Yeah, I made those. I guess I'll make one for DoD as well.

Nice! T-Rex has teeth.

THE LOST WORLD: JURASSIC PARK
EXPANDED AND REMASTERED (2-CD SET)
MUSIC COMPOSED AND CONDUCTED BY JOHN WILLIAMS
LIMITED EDITION OF 5000 UNITS
Coming From LA-LA LAND RECORDS AUGUST 8, 2023
 
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=778068147662581&set=a.484587307010668
 
https://twitter.com/LaLaLandRecords/status/1686435772700979200

I seem to like the movie better than the score.
It works just fine, but none seems to transcend that true magic that the best of Williams brings to the table.
Even KotCS had the alternate "Ugh, Vines!" which really grabs me.

I saw Midway on tv as a kid and, like SW and the other greats, I was absolutely enamored by the score, particularly this Yorktown theme, without knowing anything about JW.  Once becoming a fully conscious JW fan, I couldn't understand why there wasn't a concert version (although I did like the Midway March).  Finding that on the Lockhart album was a fulfillment of a childhood dream.  Plus, Williams went all out with the arrangement.  

i understand they sell vynils because they look cool, nostalgic and collectable, not for musical reasons. when will the era of nostalgia for music in cd or even dvd start? i would like that.

If as of 2023 nothing is currently happened, then the SW/Indy expansions, if they happen at all, are as far away as possible. They're still on ground zero.
 
If by tomorrow MM convinces Disney to let him work on that, then it'll be years and years of hard work and collaborating with a dozen people of different areas. 
 
Get ready to wait for at least a decade, I think.

Once again, Disney only care about money, they want money.
 
 
 
 
 
THEN WHY THE HELL ARE THEY REFUSING TO ALLOW US TO GIVE THEM OUR MONEY

These are the same fools who refuse to let Matessino touch Star Wars or Indiana Jones.
 

Disney has once again left its fans feeling disheartened as the CD for the latest Indiana Jones film is already out of print (OOP). This decision to make the soundtrack unavailable shortly after release makes it extremely difficult for fans who prefer physical copies or may have missed the initial release. Collectors and passionate fans of Indiana Jones' movie music are particularly affected, as they now face the challenge of finding the soundtrack at reasonable prices, if at all.

Moreover, Disney's pattern of making such wrong decisions regarding the availability of beloved soundtracks raises concerns about their approach to fan engagement. It appears that these choices prioritize short-term gains over fostering a loyal and satisfied fan base. By limiting access to cherished music and disregarding the desires of devoted collectors, Disney risks alienating its most passionate supporters. These decisions not only fuel fan frustration but also lead to a perception that Disney's priorities lie elsewhere, diminishing the trust and goodwill that fans once had for the company. As Disney continues to make such missteps, it becomes crucial for the company to reevaluate its strategies and prioritize the long-term satisfaction of its devoted fan base.

They should have said from the beginning if it was a limited run

I really hope they re issue this. I was waiting to order it from amazon without paying more for shipping than the cd

I wouldn't call Helena a Mary Sue.
She may be capable, but she bumbles at times as well and certainly isn't flawless.
 
Rey also has reasons to be the way she is, as explained in "Before the Awakening".

Deleted scenes. Cut for pacing.
Confirmed by Mangold that there used to be one additional room of puzzle-solving before reaching the Tomb.

Here's my take on this masterpiece
 

How is the general resonance of this movie on this forum?
 
I think that movie was nothing. There is simply nothing positive I can say about it: the mess of story that was leading nowhere, Ford's lukewarm performance, the naive and unfunny script, the generic and chopped-up score, the embarassing references to the older films. It was as much fun as riding a dead horse.
 
At the end, Indy gets punched in the face for preferring to stay in the past, and then gets dragged back to the present ... well, that punch in the face might be a metaphor for this pathetic movie.

Yep. Mangold's a capable director, but Spielberg's mastery of the frame is on a whole different level.

While I really like this film and will grow to love it more over time, there’s no question Spielberg would’ve done this better, at least visually.  I watched Crystal Skull right after Dial of Destiny and the first thing that struck me was the vibrant color. The second was the visual language.  In the first moments you get Dovchenko tying his shoes to allow the other Russians to gun down the base guards.  Then you get the overhead shot of Jones on the ground and the Russians advancing in a circle around him. Then you get the hat put on in shadow.   The man knows clever ways to fill a frame in motion, simultaneously aesthetically provocative while efficient at storytelling.

Well said, @Romão.  I especially agree with your central thesis that they came up with some story ideas that fit surprisingly well into the franchise … but the execution falls kinda flat.
 
There wasn't anything in the film that made me roll my eyes like nuking the fridge or "I thought we were friends" or Mutt's Tarzan moment. But I actually left KOTCS with a smile on my face. This time I left the theater feeling like the whole thing had been kind of a dour, anticlimactic non-event, set to previous Indy scores. It certainly didn't feel like the finale of the franchise.

This will be a fairly long and scattered post with my thoughts on the movie, so please bear with me.
 
I ended up enjoying this more than I expected, but I reckon it’s much more due to the ideas and concepts it presents than the execution itself, which I actually found to be considerably lacking.
 
First of all, I used to think you cannot possibly make an Indy movie without Harrison Ford. And while that remains to me as true as ever, I feel even more strongly now that you cannot make an Indiana Jones movie without Steven Spielberg. And even accounting for the shortcomings of KOTCS, the fact is that his directorial flair, his camera setups, his cinematic language are so integral to what made those first three films what they are, that when you remove him from the equation, you might have something that occasionally looks like the real thing, but it definitely does not move like the real thing.
 
And that’s one of the main problems I have with this movie. It is bloated. It has quite a bit of fat that absolutely needed to be trimmed off. Scenes drag a bit longer than they should. Things are shown and never implied. Some subplots either go nowhere or serve no narrative purpose whatsoever. And say what you will about those first three movies, they don’t have an ounce of fat in them. They are 2 hour movie trailers, and I mean that in the best possible way. 
 
And one of the main reasons why those movies move so fast and feel so breezy without ever feeling rushed or that crucial scenes were left on the cutting room floor comes down to Spielberg’s visual storytelling, by which with just a few seconds of footage, important information is given to the audience. Or how he can accomplish in a single shot what lesser directors need 4 or 5 separate shots to accomplish, with the necessary accompanying cuts  A few examples:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
We had none of these camera setups in this movie. And it robs the movie of the energy, thrust and propulsive narrative that is so integral to the original trilogy. 
 
And it’s a bit of a shame, really. I’m among the ones that thought that making another Indiana Jones movie was an awful idea. And yet, on a purely conceptual level, I do think Mangold’s approach, story ideas and concepts are actually pretty solid. They would’ve sold me on the project:
 
The Macguffin is fascinating and interesting, while still being different enough from previous Macguffins and is tied thematically to the inevitability of incorporating Indy’s aging into the story.  They found a really ingenious way to have a Nazi villain in the 60’s, by making him a cryptonazi that was recruited through Operation Overcast and was instrumental in USA’s Space Program. The plan of the main villain and the way to achieve it was somewhat surprising and interesting. The opening sequence was really enticing on a conceptual level.
 
And yet, I feel like all these great ideas came up invariably short. 
 
The quest for the Dial felt like a series of fetch quests, getting from point A to B through almost instantaneous puzzle solving, with the villains chasing the heroes and catching up with them at each destination. And although I do give the movie credit for trying something really bold and different for the movie’s climax, I do wonder if it wouldn't have been cooler if they actually went back to the days of WW2. And one thing that really bothered me is that the last lesson Indiana Jones ever gave was about the Battle of Syracuse and Archimedes’ involvement in it. I mean, how convenient can you get? In all previous movies, the subject of his classes was always unrelated to the story’s main quest.
 
Voller’s role in the Space Program and his recruitment through Operation Overcast was barely alluded to. It would’ve been more interesting if he was spearheading a whole secret Nazi revival within Nasa itself or something. As it stands, he just seemed like a really prestigious scientist that had two goons at his service and that was the full extent of his influence. The rest of the devotees that joined him in that doomed final flight felt they came out of nowhere.
 
His plan to try to assure Nazi victory by killing Hitler was a cool concept that really could’ve been further explored. And the revelation of this intent is done in such a matter-of-factly way that it really loses a lot of its potential impact. I wonder if they did indeed went back to 1939 and could have had some interesting moral dilemmas in whether to allow Voller to go through with his plan or not. Would murdering Hitler save more lives down the road or would it indeed bring the victory of Nazi Germany with the long term terrible consequences attached to it?
 
As for the opening sequence, it really won’t go in the de-aging process. It works mostly fine and it really was the only way to tackle this sort of sequence. The setting was great, the concept really cool, but it was simply overlong, overdone and a bit repetitive. And the whole thing with the Spear of Longinus being a fake and Voller suggesting his superiors to take the Antikythera instead felt a bit nonsensical. The sequence with the anti-air guns hitting the carriages as the train traveled through a large bend were admittedly exciting, but there’s no helping the feeling that Spielberg would’ve had a field day with this sort of material.
 
Another shortcoming I think the movie has is the humor. The verbal jokes rarely land, while the visual jokes, so integral to the Indiana Jones series, are few and far between. 
 
But again, the main problem is the bloat, the fat. And not only it is found in the sequences themselves, but also on totally irrelevant plot threads and characters. The CIA tailing Indiana Jones, the subway chase, Indiana Jones crashing the Apollo Astronauts ticker tape parade, Helena’s Short Round-like sidekick…all of those could’ve been totally excised without the movie really being any worse for it. In fact, I think 90% of the New York scenes could’ve been cut altogether. Plus, stuff like Helena’s ex boyfriend chasing them in Algiers. It just unnecessarily pads the movie and drags the whole thing down.
 
I must give the movie some credit for indulging far less in fan service that I was expecting, although I disliked every single moment they went for it: Salah’s scenes, the totally pointless bug tunnel scene in Syracuse, Indy casually mentioning drinking the blood of Kali, Indy and Marion replaying their kissing scene on the boat from Raiders. All of those could’ve been cut without any harm done to the movie.
 
The musical quotes, although I understand their purpose and dramatic effectiveness, bother me to no end and I find them particularly deflating as I considered that on a conceptual level, JW absolutely knocked it out of the park in giving musical identity to the various characters, objects, factions and concepts in the movie. The new themes are all fantastic and really provide an enormous extra layer of character, weight and significance to the movie. The frantic and never ending editing process of the action sequences probably didn’t give him all the opportunities for greater musical coherence. I absolutely love the music for the Siege of Syracuse scenes.
 
I’m probably coming across much harsher on the movie than I intended, but it irks me that the movie had a really good premise (something I thought beforehand was really hard to achieve given the circumstances), only to squander all the potential of the story with a somewhat lackluster and uninspired execution. There’s something off about the tone, about the pace, about the blocking, about the humor. It doesn’t really feel like an Indiana Jones movie. 
 
It mostly looks like one. John Williams ensures it sounds like one, for the most part. But it’s a sort of doppelganger. On the whole, it is a superior movie than Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. But as I read on the Mixnmojo forums, KOTCS was awful, but at least it was an awful Indiana Jones movie, whereas this one, while being, on the whole, a better movie, it is an above average movie wearing an Indy mask.

Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny - Andy's Head Canon Revised Ending:
 
Interior: Indy's Apartment
 
Helena:  You're meant to be here, Indy.  Here.
Indy: For Who?
 
The door to Indy's apartment opens.  To Indy's surprise, MARION enters along with TEDDY, and SALLAH.
 
Indy: Marion, what are you doing?
Marion: Putting groceries away. There wasn't a scrap of food in this place.
Indy: No, really.
Marion:  Someone told me you were back.
 
Before Indy can ask who, the door opens again.  The crew is joined by MUTT WILLIAMS wearing an officer's uniform, walking through the door with a wiggling ALASKAN MALAMUTE PUPPY in his arms.  Indy is in shock.  He rises in tears, and embraces his son by the shoulders, the puppy licking both of their faces.  
 
Indy: Junior!  I...
Mutt: Here, old man.  You're gonna need some help getting your strength back.
 
Mutt hands the puppy to Indy, who looks to Helena, puzzled.
 
Indy: How?
Helena: I brought you back to avoid changing the course of history.  Seems somehow, we were there long enough to do just that.
Indy:  But -
Helena:  That's the thing about Destiny.  It can't be predicted or explained.
 
Marion looks at Mutt and then to Helena.
 
Marion:  Someone told me you were back.  Are you back, Indy?
The puppy begins to squirm in Indy's arms.
 
Helena:  Looks like he doesn't know what he's got there.
Marion: Well I know what I've got here.
 
Indy and Marion embrace with a gentle kiss.  Mutt wraps his arms around them both.  The others are beaming, almost breaking into applause.  The puppy barks, breaking the awkward silence. 
 
Mutt:  He's gonna need a name, pops.
 
Indy lifts the dog, staring into its eyes.  His own welling with tears.
 
Indy:  George.  He seems like a George to me.
 
The others laugh.
 
Helena:  Why don't we go get some ice cream, kid?
Teddy: Marion just bought some.
Helena: I know a better place.
Sallah:  You can never have too much ice cream.  Are you well enough to walk, Indy?
 
Exterior: The streets of New York.  A flute and snare version of the Raiders March is heard.   POV is ground level, following the puppy walking.  We draw back to see a makeshift collar to which Indy's bullwhip is attached as a leash.  Indy is dressed in his hat and jacket, but still bandaged and in some pain as he walks George.  Marion, Mutt, Sallah, Helena, and Teddy are all walking together chattering and enjoying the day.  Indy regards the dog, who is yanking on the whip impatiently wanting to walk faster.
 
Helena:  Don't yank the collar so hard!  You'll strangle him, Indy!
 
Voice (Offscreen): You call him Doctor Jones, Doll!
 
The crew stops to see they are in front of a 1969 kung fu dojo.  In the doorway we see SHORT ROUND.
 
Short Round:  Indy!  You're back!
 
Short Round's arms are wide as he runs to join the group.  They all laugh and embrace.  The camera POV is above and rising slowly higher.  We see the whole crew exchanging stories and laughing.  Teddy attempts to pick Short Round's pocket, who stops him with lightning speed.  George is barking as the RAIDERS MARCH rises to its full glory.  Credits begin to roll over the happy gathering in the streets of New York.
 
END
 
 
 
 
 

I bet the original ending had Helena steal Indy's hat and run off with it.That's what they re-shot

Yeah I don't deny it's cheap.  But on-brand cheap.
 
If anything it makes KOTCS's ending sad now. The amount of arguments all 3 of them must have had leading up to all of the DoD drama
 

 
edit: now it's funny to me that JW decided to play Mutt's theme at the showing a couple weeks ago that had everyone there.
 
lol maybe JW didn't like Mutt dying either 

It is not all that true to life.  I know many, many people who have lost children to war, sickness, accidents.  In all cases, it either drew them closer together or made no substantial impact on their relationship.  It feels like cheap writing to me (more so the second time after TFA). 

Mutt defying Indy and going to Vietnam is very on par for the character.
 
Now could there have been a better catalyst for Marion and Indy to finally split up?  Who knows.
 
But we shouldn't forget that KOTCS set the ground-work for Indy's dysfunctional relationship with Marion (and vice-versa)  I mean going that long without telling Indy he's the biological father? lol...yeah i dunno.  But who could blame her?  He walked out before their wedding.  Not to mention all the adventures he was still probably going on at the time of Mutt's birth.
 
Also, Indy's mom died when he was very young, and also had a very poor relationship with his father growing up.  He has all the luck in the world----just not with family stuff.
 
I will say this, as someone who never hated Mutt and kinda enjoyed KOTCS, that character was set up to fail to begin with.
 
Shia (for all his personal issues that i really have never took the time to look into) did have a sort of an acting-renaissance, similar (but smaller scale) to Robert Pattison.  It's obvious he distanced himself from future Indy projects but I really think he could have been brought back in some fashion in DoD and been redeemed.   He was still too 'Even Stephens' Shia during KOTCS.
 
But I'd say, my overall point is atleast they had his death be very on-brand for him.