• Announcements

    • Jay

      Donate to JWFan, win a CD!   05/30/17

      Hello!

      We are significantly behind on our funds for keeping JWFan alive, and need to collect donations again.
      As an incentive, I am offering a series of free CDS to anyone who donates over a certain amount!   Donate at least $10 and you will be entered into a pool to potentially win one of the following once we hit our $250 goal:   Tyler Bates - God of War; Ascension (OST, La La Land Records) Danny Elfman - Planet of the Apes (OST, Sony) Danny Elfman - Taking Woodstock (OST, La La Land Records) Christopher Lennertz - Identity Thief (OST, La La Land Records) Christopher Lennertz - Medal of Honor: Rising Sun (OST) Michael Giacchino - Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol (OST, Varese Sarabande) Dave Holmes & Various - Ocean's 11 (OST, WB Records) Joel McNeely & Various - Hollywood '94 (Varese Sarabande) Joe Kraemer - Jack Reacher (OST, La La Land Records) John Williams - Born on the Fourth of July (OST, MCA Records)   Donate at least $20 and you will be entered into a pool to potentially win one of the following once we hit our $500 goal:   John Barry - First Love (La La Land) Jerry Goldsmith - The Challenge (La La Land) Jerry Goldsmith - In Harm's Way (2009 Intrada edition) Jerry Goldsmith - The Red Pony (Varese) Alan Silvestri - Dutch (La La Land) Shirley Walker - Willard (La La Land) John Williams - Family Plot (Varese Sarabande) or, any of the above CDs if you prefer   Donate at least $30 and you will be entered into a pool to potentially win one of the following once we hit our $750 goal:   James Horner - Gorky Park (OOP Kritzerland Edition) James Newton Howard - Outbreak (2CD, Varese Deluxe Edition) Laurence Rosenthal - Clash of the Titans (2CD, Intrada) John Williams - The Fury (2CD, La La Land) John Williams - Jane Eyre (OOP, La La Land) or, any of the above CDs if you prefer   Donate at least $50 and you will be entered into a pool to potentially win one of the following once we hit our $1,000 goal:   Jerry Fielding - The Wild Bunch (3CD, FSM) Ira Newborn - The Naked Gun trilogy (3CD, La La Land) Shirley Walker and Various - Batman: The Animated Series Volume 3 (4CD, La La Land) or, any of the above CDs if you prefer     All shipping will be paid by me to anywhere in the world!   I will pull names from a hat for each pool, and you get to pick whatever CD set you want if I pull your name!   To be eligible, leave your JWFan username in the comments area of your donation.  If you want to donate but not be in the running for a free CD, mention that in the comment.   Use this link or the link on the mainpage.       Thank you!   Jason, Ricard, and Andreas.
KingPin

Youtube clips

3220 posts in this topic

Haha, well there should be less "artistic freedom" with comducting. Becuase sometimes...well I just don't think some of them are trying to communicate anything other than dynamics. Its annoying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Haha, well there should be less "artistic freedom" with comducting.  Becuase sometimes...well I just don't think some of them are trying to communicate anything other than dynamics.  Its annoying.

Aren't dynamics part of artistic freedom? Artistic freedom is why you become a conductor. The reason you like a piece in the first place is because of an interpretation of the conductor. You can like one one conductors intretation of a piece and not anothers. It brings freshness to a very tired repetoire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shows you how many people paid notice of the Youtube thread we had going...

Indeed.

- Marc, who'll move this there now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Haha, well there should be less "artistic freedom" with comducting.  Becuase sometimes...well I just don't think some of them are trying to communicate anything other than dynamics.  Its annoying.

Aren't dynamics part of artistic freedom? Artistic freedom is why you become a conductor. The reason you like a piece in the first place is because of an interpretation of the conductor. You can like one one conductors intretation of a piece and not anothers. It brings freshness to a very tired repetoire.

I understand what you mean comepletely and I agree that dynamics are a VERY important part, however I do not believe that clearly communicating the pulse and beat should suffer from it. Now maybe he did communicate that to some degree, but there are some that just...don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(regarding previous post: Uhm, that really doesn't sound like a youth orchestra (although the sound quality is a bit too poor to really be sure). The trumpet section is remarkably good, even by world class standards. The horns are doing a great job too. Some of the syncopation work is weird, though. Overall a pretty professional performance I'd say. If that's a youth orchestra I'm floored :thumbup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That Japanese clip is so funny! I kept thinking he was going to trip over and crash head first into one of the violinists.

I think JW would be a little disturbed if he saw that video.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't think the Japanese conductor was "that" bad. You do see him giving the beat and meter at least sometimes. For me, the worst I've seen was Claudio Abado (who is supposedly world renowned) conduct Dvorak's 9th symphony (my favorite non-film piece) on PBS a few years ago. I couldn't see anything logical in what he was doing... which is probably why the players just never looked at him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is SO much more to conducting than most think.

It is NOT all about keeping time and dynamics. That's what highschool directors, and a lot of "mediocre" conductors worry about.

The ones that transcend the medium, and become great don't neccessarily even show the beat. But they put forth the emotion or feeling they want out of the piece. I, personally, would much rather be conducting the mood of a piece than giving 1, 2, 3, 4. And most times, GOOD players would want that too. They can count. They don't need to be shown. You should only show the beats on intricate pieces such as the Rite of Spring or any very metrical pieces.

Naturally, a good conductor also shows cues...but meter is secondary. Really it is. I've seen some good conductors leaning one hand on the back rail of their podium with their baton moving wildly in the fashion they want the music played. I suggest watching Bernstein and seeing how much he really conducts the meter.

I mean, otherwise, without conductors' interpretations...what's the point of having over 100 versions of Beethoven's 9th? If all conductors just showed what was on the page with rhythm and dynamics...they'd all be carbon copies. That's why the greats all put in their own interpretations of lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you calling Williams a mediocre conductor?

At least with him, most of the recordings and performances sound alike, unlike some conductors that play pieces that slow down or speed up unnecessarily and musicians don't all follow at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you calling Williams a mediocre conductor?

Absolutely! I know I will probably get screamed at for this one...but he IS only a mediocre conductor. The guy is a performer, and a composer. He gets the job done with his conducting...he goes into the studio and records his music perfectly to the screen. In no way am I saying he can't get the job done.

However, if you watch him conduct for a whole piece up close...there are hardly any inflections in his conducting. He usually only conducts the beat. And in his old age, he is a bit "wobbly" with his pattern in the first place.

So before you freak out on me...YES I am a huge Williams fan. But is he an amazing conductor in the field of Bernstein and Toscannini? Nope. Not even close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although I like his conducting, I totally agree. He is at best a performer and BRILLIANT composer! From taking Conducting in college it seriously involves way more than what he does at concerts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you calling Williams a mediocre conductor?

Absolutely! I know I will probably get screamed at for this one...but he IS only a mediocre conductor. The guy is a performer, and a composer. He gets the job done with his conducting...he goes into the studio and records his music perfectly to the screen. In no way am I saying he can't get the job done.

However, if you watch him conduct for a whole piece up close...there are hardly any inflections in his conducting. He usually only conducts the beat. And in his old age, he is a bit "wobbly" with his pattern in the first place.

So before you freak out on me...YES I am a huge Williams fan. But is he an amazing conductor in the field of Bernstein and Toscannini? Nope. Not even close.

So what would Toscannini have done with the Superman March and the LSO? Bettered Williams' effort? By your estimations I'd love to hear it, even though its not possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Undoubtedly the Superman March would be better. Absolutely undoubtedly. And yes, I too would love to hear it. I really would. I mean, there are some aspects of a March that just are prime by the time the orchestra even reads them. But the love theme, and other aspects of it...even if they are just subtle. They would be better.

Again, please don't get me wrong. Williams does a good job for what he has to do.

By the way, I might note that JMan and I have both been spoiled by probably the best Wind Ensemble conductor in the country. :spiny:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clip from Austin Wind Symphony's August Tribute Concert to

"The Music Of John Williams" (Star Wars)

(Hhmm, I see a blurb attached that says The Austin Wind Symphony plays music strictly from the movies and television beerchug)

Heh, news clip-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8E5tZxXD5M

Hollywood Bowl live performance (Don't know what year, hard to tell if that's JW way down there...)

Medley of Spielberg Movies set to film, good sound quality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=464oRpDlf_A...related&search=

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Williams' defense, I've never seen him conduct any of the more intimiate scores, that would actually require inflections in the beating pattern.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Undoubtedly the Superman March would be better. Absolutely undoubtedly. And yes, I too would love to hear it. I really would. I mean, there are some aspects of a March that just are prime by the time the orchestra even reads them. But the love theme, and other aspects of it...even if they are just subtle. They would be better.

Again, please don't get me wrong. Williams does a good job for what he has to do.

By the way, I might note that JMan and I have both been spoiled by probably the best Wind Ensemble conductor in the country.   :)

Correctamundo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't that john candy?

But seriously, I always thought his best performance was in the Wing Commander games. :-D

"Is that the guy from star wars?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Just get in the car, Butthead"

"Who you calling a Butthead, Butthead?"

Best BTTF. line. ever.

But "Get the hell out of my car old man!" is a close 2nd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's great. 2001 never worked for me because of the use of those classical pieces.

There is too strong association to other images in my head with the R.& J. Strauss etc. music.

Only the Ligeti stuff worked for me.

Other overrated scene is the Ride of the Walkyries in Apocalypse.Now. Bland.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try to watch that clip with the original sound off and play the the Planet Kryton at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow - it syncs up perfectly! :|

I'll try and upload a version to YouTube, if I can figure out how.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With all due respect to Alex North, I don't think that works at all. It's nice music, but completely wrong for the film IMO.

It's far to busy and fanfaric for that opening, and it doesn't build as well to it's climax as the Strauss piece does.

Nice music, but it sounds like a 1950's film with Gladiators.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice music, but it sounds like a 1950's film with Gladiators.

Strauss: And I looked at the film, and it was -- I don't even know how to describe how atrocious the music was.

It was like a 1950's Hercules movie.

And it wasn't because Alex's not a gifted writer, it's because he just doesn't have any knowledge of writing film scores. Real film scores like that. And it was like -- It was so corny. It was unbelievable.

ttbk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh great, My musical taste is the same of that of a Nazi symphatiser!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now