Blade Runner 2049

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Don't forget Geoff Zanelli! He's awesome! Right Koray?

[Arpy 4,145]

Is Lorne Balfe Zimmer's protégé?

Or was that Powell? Or Djawadi? 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

46 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Powell is the only composer to come out of that corporate structure that has really set himself apart from the other Zimmer "elves".

 

Gregson-Williams used to be another one, but the promise he once showed has mostly vanished...

[Arpy 4,145]

Was Narnia what stoked the prospects of his future career?

3 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Gregson-Williams used to be another one, but the promise he once showed has mostly vanished...

 

[Thor 7,504]

Some of you make this out to be some new phenomenon. It isn't (although it's more prevalent these days).

 

 

Be that as it may, I always judge a work by its end result, not how many composers were involved or other behind-the-scenes shenanigans.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thor, Herrmann and Newman working together on a score is a rare exception and you know it.

[A24 4,334]

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised that more and more music of Johann will be replaced.

 

[Romão 2,274]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

Some of you make this out to be some new phenomenon. It isn't (although it's more prevalent these days).

 

 

Be that as it may, I always judge a work by its end result, not how many composers were involved or other behind-the-scenes shenanigans.

 

And that was purely a decision made due to time constraints.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I listen to composers the same way people listen to singers. To hear a particulier musical voice. That's harder when a score has been assembled by a whole bunch of people accorded to a certain house style.

[Romão 2,274]

Unless they collaborate from the get go, like it happened with the Egyptian, in which the score was organically written between the two composers, with each other's musical ideas seeping in and resulting in fully satisfying and coherent musical work. When composers are being used to patch up music that was previously written is much sadder, I think. It's the status quo, I suppose

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I thought Newman and Herrmann didn't collaborate? From what I remember, there are no cues credited to both of them on the CD I have. 

[antovolk 95]

The amount of Twitterati saying that JJ is off the project (damn FSR's report) is annoying as hell.

 

And so is people on FSR's forums saying that this is 100% a sign of a troubled production. Like, when did Hans work on this - June. 3/4 months before release. Which is when most films get scored anyway. Compare to GITS where they got Balfe in 3 WEEKS before release.

[Romão 2,274]

55 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

I thought Newman and Herrmann didn't collaborate? From what I remember, there are no cues credited to both of them on the CD I have. 

 

I didn't mean to say that they wrote cues together, but rather that each others thematic material was shared between them

[A24 4,334]

2 hours ago, Romão said:

Unless they collaborate from the get go ...

 

Exactly! Like with The Last Emperor where Sakamoto did the Westernized film music part and David Byrne composed the traditional sounding part. That's no problem for me whatsoever! However, that is not the case here!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

5 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

 

Exactly! Like with The Last Emperor where Sakamoto did the Westernized film music part and David Byrne composed the traditional sounding part. That's no problem for me whatsoever! However, that is not the case here!

Hans worked on that as well

[A24 4,334]

Merely as a programmer, Koray. 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

And producer. 

[James 119]

This is not such a strange situation in Scott's career.
Already happened to Goldsmith and the Tangerine Dream in "The Legend", Marc Streitefeld * in "Prometheus" with Harry GW and even Alberto Iglesias in "Exodus".
Certainly the contribution of these two will be limited to some tracks as happened in the most recent scores.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ridley Scott isn't directing this!

[James 119]

No, but he is one of the producers.

 

 

"I was trying to imagine something positive in this situation" 

[KK 3,307]

Ultimately, it still pains me that we're no longer getting a wholesome Johannsson take on Blade Runner.

[Fancyarcher 350]

17 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

It's probably more important for the producers. I mean, this was a producer's call. Villeneuve wanted to worked with his buddy Johhansson but the people who eventually want their money back think more in terms of Zimmer. Perhaps Johhansson went too far or too atmospheric. In any case, this must feel like an insult to Johannsson.

 

Main BR2 theme: Hans Zimmer

Filler music/background droning: Johann Johanssonn

 

That doesn't seem likely considering that modern Hollywood directors tends to prefer atmosphere above actual themes these days, and Villeneuve / Johhansson's previous collaborations have basically been all about sound / atmosphere anyway. If anything I'd expect a composer to get the boot for actual trying to have themes these days.

This doesn't make me any less interested in the film though. A composer added additional this late into production, may seem troubling, but that doesn't mean the actual film itself will be bad either. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Atmospheric film scoring is growing on me, but like anything that requires a skill, not everyone is good at it. It takes a talented dramatist like Zimmer to pull it off.

 

That said, I'm uncomfortable with the symphonic/melodic zealotry and dogma that fuels posts on my Facebook feed and message boards through some people's outright dismissal of modern scoring without giving it a second glance. It reminds me of classical music snobbery, only now the Williams/Goldsmith/Horner fanatics have now become the elitist snobs. They act like they feel threatened or something.

 

And then they act all puzzled when you say it's possible to like both approaches. Sometimes I need some variety in my life, hence listening only to symphonic or melodic scores would send me mad.

 

Also, some of those Filmtracks reviews where otherwise decent Zimmer et al scores barely scrape past a one or two star rating might be due for some reassessment. Were they really that bad? Looking back on them, I just don't agree with those ratings anymore. And the reason I'm singling Filmtracks out is because that tends to be a lot of newcomers' first touchpoint they find in the online film music community, so CC's reviews are bound to influence what people feel is worthy of seeking out.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

 

[publicist 4,643]

#nothingtodowiththreadathand

[A24 4,334]

4 hours ago, Fancyarcher said:

 

That doesn't seem likely considering that modern Hollywood directors tends to prefer atmosphere above actual themes these days ...

 

 I don't disagree with that but I think the reason why Zimmer is brought on board is because it's possible a PRODUCER isn't really happy with something. The biggest adversaries Scott had to deal with during the making of Blade Runner were the producers who financed the movie. Maybe bringing in Zimmer (a magic word to any producer) at the end of the production is merely a way to appease a worrying mind. Maybe Villeneuve and Scott already had a lot of 'carte blanche' so making one concession (at the cost of Johannsson)  is a solution to them.

 

BTW, a "main theme" doesn't mean it has to be an actual (hummable) theme. 

 

 

4 hours ago, KK said:

Ultimately, it still pains me that we're no longer getting a wholesome Johannsson take on Blade Runner.

 

Trust me, Johannsson is not happy with that either. Johannsson was going to be the one who would create the followup to Blade Runner, and now that the movie is kind of finished, he gets to hear they are bringing in another guy. "It's great but we're bringing in Zimmer to add some finishing touches." Johannsson is no longer 'the composer' from BR2. Apparently it wasn't enough. Someone thought he needed help. This doesn't give an artist a good feeling.

 

 

Alex

[Fancyarcher 350]

26 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

 

 I don't disagree with that but I think the reason why Zimmer is brought on board is because it's possible a PRODUCER isn't really happy with something. The biggest adversaries Scott had to deal with during the making of Blade Runner were the producers who financed the movie. Maybe bringing in Zimmer (a magic word to any producer) at the end of the production is merely to appease a worrying mind. Maybe Villeneuve and Scott already had a lot of 'carte blanche' so making one concession (at the cost of Johannsson)  is a solution to them.

 

BTW, a "main theme" doesn't mean it has to be an actual (hummable) theme. 

 

 

Alex

 

Yeah, I imagine they aren't super pleased with Johansson's score. Perhaps he wasn't referencing Vangelis themes enough or something, to their liking.

 

Of course a main theme doesn't have to be hummable. Plenty of great themes I wouldn't consider hummable. I am looking forward to the Blade Runner 2049 score as well.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

#nothingtodowiththreadathand

 

I know, but I like ranting about this one lately.

[Bespin 8,482]

Don't know if this french interview with Villeneuve has been posted here before, use Reverso:

 

L’Islandais Johann Johannsson [avec lequel Denis Villeneuve a travaillé sur Prisoners, Sicario et Premier contact, NDLR] compose le thème principal comme prévu. Mais, au vu de l’ampleur de la tâche, Benjamin Wallfisch et Hans Zimmer ont rejoint l’équipe pour aider Johann. C’est difficile d’arriver à la cheville de Vangelis ! On a des sons atmosphériques ahurissants de Johann, mais j’avais besoin d’autres choses, et Hans nous a aidés.

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Typical PR babbling!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Translation: "I was happy with what Johann had written, but it was not very good, so we called Hans to provide us with some good music".

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

3 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Translation: "I was happy with what Johann had written, but it was not very good, so we called Gia to provide us with some good music".

 

Fixed!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Nah. What I wrote is what he said now. Of course, later, he'll say: "I was happy with what Hans had written, but it was not very good, so we called Gia to provide us with some good music".

[Bespin 8,482]

I find those multi-composers scores to be completely ridiculous. I don't get in.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

3 minutes ago, Bespin said:

I don't get in.

 

Argument with your husband again?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

4 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

The fact is I can't think of many scores composed by multiple composers where it feels like the voice of each one can be heard while still resulting in a unified, cohesive and ultimately solid score.

 

I would say Nolan's first two Batman films sound quite cohesive despite being done by two different composers. But yeah it's an exception.

[crocodile 8,016]

Unless, of course, you count pretty much every other Zimmer score out there.

 

Karol

[Bespin 8,482]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

 

Argument with your husband again?

 

Ta gueule, tu m'énerves toi.

 

@BloodBoal You're right, it's the fact that it's not an artistical choice or a team work from the beginning, it's more a 911 call when things go wrong.  I would have problems to have an hero or idol who participate in such masquerade. And its says long about the movie itself, the director and the productors. For me a good movie, it's a sum of many mastered talents... not a sum of best efforts. Ah.... today's movies....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

6 hours ago, crocodile said:

Unless, of course, you count pretty much every other Zimmer score out there.

 

Karol

 

That's different. those are mainly Zimmer, with a few parts done by some of the people who work for him. the first 2 Nolan Batmans were two composers of more or less equal stature working together.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Any score featuring John Powell and a co-composer would fit that bill. His voice stands out, but the whole score is cohesive.

[Quintus 5,399]

11 hours ago, Bespin said:

I find those multi-composers scores to be completely ridiculous. I don't get in.

 

How do you fare with bands and stuff? Must be a struggle.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

The pop bands that have more than one songwriter are few and far between.  The pop bands who have multiple songwriters whose songs are true collaborative efforts are even rarer.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Really? 

[A24 4,334]

On 31-7-2017 at 0:29 PM, Bespin said:

Don't know if this french interview with Villeneuve has been posted here before, use Reverso:

 

L’Islandais Johann Johannsson [avec lequel Denis Villeneuve a travaillé sur Prisoners, Sicario et Premier contact, NDLR] compose le thème principal comme prévu. Mais, au vu de l’ampleur de la tâche, Benjamin Wallfisch et Hans Zimmer ont rejoint l’équipe pour aider Johann. C’est difficile d’arriver à la cheville de Vangelis ! On a des sons atmosphériques ahurissants de Johann, mais j’avais besoin d’autres choses, et Hans nous a aidés.

 

 

 

 

Villeneuve: “Johann Johannsson of Iceland composes the main theme as planned. However, given the scale of the task, Benjamin Wallfisch and Hans Zimmer joined the team to help Johann. It’s hard to get to Vangelis’ angle. We have Johann’s breathtaking atmospheric sounds, but I needed other things, and Hans helped us.”

 

 

I guess this is what we all suspected, only it's Villeneuve who takes the responsibility ("I needed other things").

 

One day the truth will come out (when Johannsson spills the beans).

 

 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

8 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

The pop bands that have more than one songwriter are few and far between.  The pop bands who have multiple songwriters whose songs are true collaborative efforts are even rarer.

 

Can you cite some examples? You seem to know the figures.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

4 hours ago, Quintus said:

 

Can you cite some examples? You seem to know the figures.

 

It's probably some kind of psychological bias of mine, but most of my favorite pop bands are either the vision of a "chief" songwriter or they have multiple songwriters but each one brings their own distinct songs to the table with collaboration limited to arrangement choices.

 

Good examples of the former: The Kinks (Ray Davies), Wilco (Jeff Tweedy), The Who (Pete Townshend), The White Stripes (Jack White), Thin Lizzy (Phil Lynott), The Jam (Paul Weller), The Replacements (Paul Westerberg), Weezer (Rivers Cuomo), The La's (Lee Mavers), Pulp (Jarvis Cocker), Modest Mouse (Isaac Brock), The Smashing Pumpkins (Billy Corgan), Nirvana (Kurt Cobain), The Shins (James Mercer)

 

Good examples of the latter: Queen, CSNY, Teenage Fanclub, Sonic Youth, The New Pornographers, The Pixies

 

Of course there are the famous songwriting duos, like Lennon/McCartney, Jagger/Richards, Morrissey/Marr, Fagen/Becker, Bono/The Edge etc.  And there are definitely bands whose song writing was true collaboration, REM is my go-to example.  I just think they're less common.

 

I dunno, I've never thought bands were a particularly good comparison to film composing because bands are songwriters who are also the definitive performers of their own songs.  Very different from what Williams does.

[Quintus 5,399]

19 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

It's probably some kind of psychological bias of mine

 

I see.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Very interesting.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

On 8/1/2017 at 2:35 AM, Alexcremers said:

 

 

Villeneuve: “Johann Johannsson of Iceland composes the main theme as planned. However, given the scale of the task, Benjamin Wallfisch and Hans Zimmer joined the team to help Johann. It’s hard to get to Vangelis’ angle. We have Johann’s breathtaking atmospheric sounds, but I needed other things, and Hans helped us.”

 

 

I guess this is what we all suspected, only it's Villeneuve who takes the responsibility ("I needed other things").

 

One day the truth will come out (when Johannsson spils the beans).

 

What do you think, Alex?  Are these "other things" that Denis needs worthy of Blade Runner, or is there a push for more blockbustery antics that Hans can deliver like no other?

 

I believe, but could be mistaken, that there was a fair amount of orchestral or at least ensemble recording done.  I think it's entirely possible that what they originally had in mind was more organic than it turns out everyone now wants.  Was the attempt to stray from the original and make this its own thing folly?

 

Enter Hans, Zebra in hand....