The Adventures of Tintin MUSIC Discussion thread

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say. Can you rephrase?

let me try....

Williams composed the 1st draft, using the same music for the haddoque-rackham fight and for the Haddock-saccharine (crane) fight.

Later he decided (or was asked) to rescore the hadoque-rackham fight and that the version in the film-OST. But he retained the crane fight with the reprised material from the original 'old enemies meet'

My reason to think this is that The ending of 'Escaping from the karaboudjan' and 'capturing the plane' are almost the same composition, and if they are two different recording, it means that in other parts of the film williams could have also reused material with none or slight orchestration.

Makes sense now?

[Jay 37,364]

Except that he never rescored the Francis Haddock/Red Rackham Fight. The sequence is made up of 3 cues:

1. Old Enemies Meet - covers Haddock "waking up" after Snowy brings him the alchohol, and he re-inacts Sir Francis while destroying the room and needing to be restrained in the present

2. At Sword Point - "Feather Knife" on the FYC - Haddock is tied up, him and Rackham talk, he escapes and pours gunpowder

3. Dueling Pirates - He lights the gunpowder, him and Raddock have their big sword fight

In the final film, most of Old Enemies Meet was replaced by music tracked in from Dueling Pirates - not a rewrite, an editorially created change.

At Sword Point has some inserts not part of his original 2009 cue added, but the overall idea of the cue is not majorly changed

Dueling Pirates is unaltered except for the removal of the Bagghar theme (which must have also represented the treasure in the 2009 cues)

As for the Crane Fight sequence, we simply don't know how he originaly scored it. All we know is that in the final film, large chunks of Old Enemies Meet are tracked in.over part of it.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

you are sure its tracked then.

then, forget what i said

[Jay 37,364]

Well - NO. I suppose its impossible to prove that it's tracked. I simply know that what I can hear matches the sheet music for Old Enemies Meet. However, it is possible he always intended to reprise that music there, and just recorded the same music twice. There's really no way to know for sure, I suppose.

If they hadn't replaced most of Old Enemies Meet in its intended spot, we'd be able to compare the two recording and look for subtle differences that would indicate they were different recordings. Maybe once the blu ray comes out, we can compare the bits that weren't replaced by Dueling Pirates

Alternatively, hopefully someone will leak the rest of the sheet music and we'll have all our answers

[Jilal 569]

Hahahahaha!

At 0:47 in 2m3 The Wizards Pub (the 1:23 uncut version from the recording sessions) from HP1 you can hear Snowy's theme!

Well - NO. I suppose its impossible to prove that it's tracked. I simply know that what I can hear matches the sheet music for Old Enemies Meet. However, it is possible he always intended to reprise that music there, and just recorded the same music twice. There's really no way to know for sure, I suppose.

If they hadn't replaced most of Old Enemies Meet in its intended spot, we'd be able to compare the two recording and look for subtle differences that would indicate they were different recordings. Maybe once the blu ray comes out, we can compare the bits that weren't replaced by Dueling Pirates

Alternatively, hopefully someone will leak the rest of the sheet music and we'll have all our answers

Allmost all of Old Enemies Meet is in the Crane Fight sequence. The 2010 version is in the file from the UK website.

[Nemesis 245]

Hahahahaha!

At 0:47 in 2m3 The Wizards Pub (the 1:23 uncut version from the recording sessions) from HP1 you can hear Snowy's theme!

Yeah, it has some slight similarity.

[Tom 4,658]

Perhaps this is old news, but I noticed in the liner notes to the Williams 80th birthday cd that "The Adventures Continue" was recorded July 26th, 2011. Presumably, then, it was not part of the original recordings.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

is there any performance differences?

[Tom 4,658]

Sorry, my earlier post was not all that clear. The recording is exactly the same as the soundtrack. I was alluding to an earlier discussion regarding whether the piece was part of the original sheet music people had or from the pick-up recordings in July. It is clear that it is from the pick-up recordings.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN-DKLqIG48

I just came across this the other day. The music at 0:10 sounds a lot like something JW would have done. I think there's even a reference to the Tintin theme at 0:19.

[Jilal 569]

To me it sounds more like the composer tried to mimick his style. The rythm at the end doesn't sound very JW to me, IMHO.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

Found myself whistling the Tintin theme walking home from walk, one of William's best motifs, also slightly unusual I might say? I don't know how but sounds different.

 

I somehow think this is the best modern Williams score that the collective consciousness somehow missed the boat on?

 

Two reasons

1. The film was a washout frankly, atleast in North America. Can be called a flop and not widely seen or known.

2. And the second more important reason - this is perhaps, note for note, the most complicated score that Williams has written - apart from Adventure continue and some other samples, it is simply too complex to play at concerts - too intricate. 

 

Scores also gain popularity through piano transcriptions and such - again too complicated for that. There are just too many notes, the tempo is often very fast and there's a lot going on.

 

Also the music is brutally chopped in the film. It STILL manages to make a big impact in the film, but it is still fairly chopped. (the amount of syncing Williams is trying in this film jeez - almost mickeymousing but again it is very difficult to hit SO MANY sync points in the score to match the images).

 

I think all these factors lead me to believe that somehow people slept on this masterpiece. I think it is his best score since Harry Potter 1. It has over a dozen themes and motifs all incorporated in a very complex web. And the technical sophistication is in someways the highest in his career.

 

[Alex 2,835]

Certainly from a technical standpoint, I think it's his best score since POA. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's very very good.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I like Tintin. Both score and film too.

Very much, in fact. One of the most surprising and good films I've seen in a long time.

Bring on the sequel already!

[Gurkensalat 340]

1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Found myself whistling the Tintin theme walking home from walk, one of William's best motifs, also slightly unusual I might say? I don't know how but sounds different.

 

I somehow think this is the best modern Williams score that the collective consciousness somehow missed the boat on?

 

Two reasons

1. The film was a washout frankly, atleast in North America. Can be called a flop and not widely seen or known.

2. And the second more important reason - this is perhaps, note for note, the most complicated score that Williams has written - apart from Adventure continue and some other samples, it is simply too complex to play at concerts - too intricate. 

 

Scores also gain popularity through piano transcriptions and such - again too complicated for that. There are just too many notes, the tempo is often very fast and there's a lot going on.

 

Also the music is brutally chopped in the film. It STILL manages to make a big impact in the film, but it is still fairly chopped. (the amount of syncing Williams is trying in this film jeez - almost mickeymousing but again it is very difficult to hit SO MANY sync points in the score to match the images).

 

I think all these factors lead me to believe that somehow people slept on this masterpiece. I think it is his best score since Harry Potter 1. It has over a dozen themes and motifs all incorporated in a very complex web. And the technical sophistication is in someways the highest in his career.

 

 

 

Agree on all accounts. And waiting for the time that people start recognizing The BFG score also for the overlooked masterpiece it is (but Tintin is still better).

[BloodBoal 7,538]

1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

There are just too many notes

 

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

It's a real mystery why this score isn't more appreciated around here.

[Loert 2,511]

It's definitely one of Williams' more musically inventive scores, with some relatively complex writing, but still very fun to listen to. And I have a feeling that JW had a lot of fun composing it. Definitely among my top favourite 21st-century scores.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,364]

War Horse?  Boring?  BB, you really feel that way?

 

I for one LOVE both scores.

[Jilal 569]

36 minutes ago, Jay said:

War Horse?  Boring?  BB, you really feel that way?

 

I for one LOVE both scores.

 

Hear hear!

[Jonesy 55]

2011 was an excellent year for JWFan 

[Faleel 5,348]

I don't really get Tintin.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What's there to get?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

23 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

this is perhaps, note for note, the most complicated score that Williams has written - apart from Adventure continue and some other samples, it is simply too complex to play at concerts - too intricate. 

 

 

Come again?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not even the LSO would be able to play it properly!

[tannhauser 101]

It's simple compared to some of Richard Strauss' stuff!

[Jay 37,364]

16 hours ago, Fennel Ka said:

I don't really get Tintin.

 

The film or the score?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The film is good, the score is good!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

It's a great listen on album but in-context, there's too much music.  Aside from a couple of 1 minute stretches, the film is scored completely wall-to-wall.  The frenetic pacing doesn't help but there are also several scenes that could have benefited from some breathing room.

[Faleel 5,348]

I liked the film, the score... I like bits and pieces...

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

On 10/8/2016 at 1:09 PM, Not Mr. Big said:

It's a great listen on album but in-context, there's too much music.  Aside from a couple of 1 minute stretches, the film is scored completely wall-to-wall.  The frenetic pacing doesn't help but there are also several scenes that could have benefited from some breathing room.

 

This is one of the things that makes it a rather elaborate score. There is ALWAYS something going on musically. Its like Williams is pulling out tricks from his bag non stop. Specially impressive when you think most composers impress once in 4-5 scores.

[Thor 7,504]

OK, this fares a BIT better than INDY 4, but still 'whimsy galore', which is the keyword for almost all of JW's post-2005 film scores.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

That's actually notated by Williams in the sheet music.  "Whimsy Galore"

[Thor 7,504]

[Jay 37,364]

On 4/1/2017 at 1:48 PM, Thor said:

OK, this fares a BIT better than INDY 4, but still 'whimsy galore', which is the keyword for almost all of JW's post-2005 film scores.

 

Huh? "Almost all"??

 

Indiana Jones 4 - has a bit

Tintin - has some

War Horse - no

Lincoln - no

Book Thief - no

TGA - no

BFG - has some

 

"Almost all"?

[Thor 7,504]

LINCOLN is the only exception there, as far as I'm concerned (that score has a whole set of other issues).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What are your issues with Lincoln?

[Thor 7,504]

First and foremost the "vanilla Americana" -- to quote Randy Newman -- that he's done a thousand times before. It's excellent for what it is, of course, but doesn't give me anything I've heard in more gripping format before (JFK, BOT4OJ, concert works etc.). I'm also not a big fan of the folksy fiddle stuff, but that's my personal preference.

[Jay 37,364]

There's only one cue in the score with a "folksy fiddle"; The other track is an existing piece Williams had nothing to do with that was licensed for the CD.

[Thor 7,504]

OK, then. Still not my cup of tea.

But I loved the film. Not upon first viewing, but after the second and third.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

My favorite Spielberg film of this century.

 

Oooh, now I'm gonna rank 21st century Spielberg for no reason.

 

1. Lincoln

2. A.I.

3. Minority Report

4. Bridge of Spies

5. Catch Me If You Can

[Thor 7,504]

Gutsy choice! For me, LINCOLN can't even touch the feet of A.I., which is not only my favourite Spielberg film of this century, but my favourite film of this century, period. But I do like it. After the first viewing, I was put off by endless, information-heavy dialogue (not a big fan of that in movies), but especially after the second viewing, I noticed a number of visual details that both underlined story elements and provided autonomous atmosphere. Kaminski & Spielberg were on fire in this one (light through windows, the visceral 'mud-and-blood' scenes, play with mirrors etc.).

 

I liked TINTIN too (just to keep things slightly on-topic), but was put off by the endlessly moving, virtual cinematography, which -- in 3D -- made me nauseaus at some point.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

2 minutes ago, Thor said:

I liked TINTIN too (just to keep things slightly on-topic), but was put off by the endless virtual cinematography, which -- in 3D -- made me nauseaus at some point.

 

I agree, despite really liking that movie overall.  Spielberg had so much freedom of camera movement that he took it a little far.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sigh....

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

It's interesting hearing the opinions of Tintin, particularly the freedom of the camera movement. Both Tintin and The BFG really play with film conventions and push them past what's possible with real life filming, distorting gravity but remaining in reality just enough to not feel cartoonish. Maybe he did Tintin too late, too far into the life of CGI animation, for people to notice what he was trying to do.

 

I think if those films were made by a director by any other name they'd seen as far more revolutionary. I'm not defending Spielberg here, as he's distinguished enough to not really need it, but I do find that even when he does take risks and continue to contribute to the cinematic vocabulary people don't really care that much anymore. He's become an institution where he was once a rebel. You could probably say the same for Williams actually.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes!

[Thor 7,504]

6 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

I think if those films were made by a director by any other name they'd seen as far more revolutionary. I'm not defending Spielberg here, as he's distinguished enough to not really need it, but I do find that even when he does take risks and continue to contribute to the cinematic vocabulary people don't really care that much anymore. He's become an institution where he was once a rebel. You could probably say the same for Williams actually.

 

Which is refreshing in many instances. I remember thinking that when I saw BRIDGE OF SPIES, it was like watching the movie of an old, experienced professor in terms of tempo, creative visual solutions etc. It was refreshing in its 'retro' approach, made by a man who has total command of the cinematic language.

 

As opposed to, say, Martin Scorsese, who keeps putting out films with wild energy and/or experimentation. I mean, WOLF OF WALL STREET comes off as it's made by a 30-year-old!

 

Perhaps Spielberg was trying to "pull a Scorsese" with TINTIN, but I don't think he succeeded on that level. The best parts of the film are the 'moody' sequences, IMO.