BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 With the grandkids perhaps?I hear...similarities...here and there. In both what we've heard from Tintin and War Horse. And while none of it seems intentional...the culmination of these moments points to the possibility that the maestro watched the movies (possibly with his family while on retirement) and some music tunneled from the ears and burrowed into his brain stem.Granted this is not to disparage the great Maestro. Tintin wipes the floor with anything in PotC. But it's a curious possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I imagine it's more a case of temp-track of Zimmer into Tintin and War Horse, and Spielberg asking something similar to that... I suppose it could have been Williams first exposure to this particular kind of music, and I'd like to hear what he has to say about it."Those synths are AWESOME dude! I should totally use those more!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 214 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I highly doubt that a temp track for the film was Williams' first exposure to this kind of music! And I think it's highly likely he's seen at least one of the films with family, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 it was probably used in the temp track.Williams said he doesn't go to the movies or watch a lot of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 My grandfather is around the same age - watching loud blockbusters ranks not that high on his list of priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Ol' Johnny must have been in the theater with sheet music bundled around him, making copious notes of Zimmer's music for further use. "If I ever score another pirate film this is what I'll use. All this bass. How on earth have I missed all this?"Honestly I have no idea does Tintin have musical resemblance with POTC music at any point. I listened to those scores back when I saw the films and have not had any great urge to revisit that stuff. And before you go all antagonistic on me I have to say that of course I am a bloody JW fanboy and apologist who refuses to acknowledge the power of Zimmer's music. Brando and Jurassic Shark 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 How well you know me BloodBoal. You can read me like an unlocked messageboard thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 With the grandkids perhaps?I hear...similarities...here and there. In both what we've heard from Tintin and War Horse. And while none of it seems intentional...the culmination of these moments points to the possibility that the maestro watched the movies (possibly with his family while on retirement) and some music tunneled from the ears and burrowed into his brain stem.Granted this is not to disparage the great Maestro. Tintin wipes the floor with anything in PotC. But it's a curious possibility.Maybe he's seen the movie, maybe not. Who the hell can tell?But he knows the music, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 My grandfather is around the same age - watching loud blockbusters ranks not that high on his list of priorities.mine watched IndyIV and Avatar...But they did not like the POTC films on TV. Shite i think was the word used... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 John Williams has said in multiple interviews that he does not watch movies a lot. I don't really see him reserving tickets for the latest Bruckheimer flick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Dear God. Maybe he watched it on DVD when he learned Tintin deals in part with pirates and seafaring swashbucklers? Could be.But again, who can tell? And is it even so important whether he saw it with his grandkids or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Temp track people, temp track! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Temp track people, temp track!Or that, yes.I think we can say pretty definitely JW knows the music of PotC.Whether he saw it in the theater and with how many of his grandkids, is not really an issue, l'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 It's funny that no one minds when Williams is writing in a Korngold-esque style, which is no more his own, and no more authentic regarding the depiction of pirates then Zimmer's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 But hey War Horse has English folk song styled melodies. Obvious rip-off from Jack Sparrow's theme man. Obvious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I don't see Spielberg asking John Williams to sit there and listen to a temp track and potentially copy a sound. It's been highly documented that Williams watches the movie on its own terms, sight unseen, in order to get ideas or first impressions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,534 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 He either has, or he hasn't. It's as simple as that. I hope for his sanity, that it's the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I was really disappointed that it was the pirate music which played during Tintin's end credits, instead of The Adventure Continues...Maybe someone at Paramount thought it'd improve the ost cd sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Yeah true, what I meant is the music heard as the Unicorn cuts through the ocean, the music related to this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 It's funny that no one minds when Williams is writing in a Korngold-esque style, which is no more his own, and no more authentic regarding the depiction of pirates then Zimmer's. Because it's more interesting to witness him modernise his style while kicking-ass than regressing to Korngold. One is novel, the other well trodden territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinspace 8 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 You're on the money about the pirates of the caribbean motif in War Horse. What was Williams thinking?!!!!!! -> Track: No mans Land. @ 2:37 repeats about 5 times. All that comes into my mind is some kind of pirate sword fight! It occurs to me; Has Hans Zimmer ever used any JW motifs or themes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 There is NO WAY, Dinner with Amelia from "The Terminal" wasn't temptracked! (As good as it gets - H. Zimmer)Of course it happens on Williams/Spielberg, I think the part we know from "Bringing Joey Home" was tracked with Jack Sparrow music, or there is an original piece, which Williams and Zimmer copied independently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinspace 8 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 It's funny you mention Terminal. I hear a lot of this in both Tintin and oddly enough War Horse aswell. Now I know what people mean when they say film music is a pastiche artf form.Zimmer's music evokes a completely different (more modern) feeling, and has to be a good thing that he has his own voice (original or not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 It even permeates Tintin.The Adventure Continues has a strangely eery similarity with "Wheel of Something or Another" or whatever the hell it was from Dead Man's Chest....right down to that string diddy at 2:30 or so...there's a moment where you brain goes "wait this is about to burst off into Pirates music"It doesn't. But there's definitely influence there. My avatar is scarier than ever now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Of course it happens on Williams/Spielberg, I think the part we know from "Bringing Joey Home" was tracked with Jack Sparrow music, or there is an original piece, which Williams and Zimmer copied independently.Or it is just a little musical device quite common in the heritage of british music. Or Spielberg has really lost his mind and temptracks random parts of his movies with PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Spielberg is a Zimmer fan. Spielberg made Zimmer director of Dreamworks music. Sooooo....it's completely likely he tracks random parts of his movies with Pirates of the Caribbean.And Williams isn't Goldsmith or Herrmann. He wouldn't watch it and say "What the hell is this shit?" He'd passively go with it. Because he's 80. He's doing these movies because Spielberg is like PWETTY PWEASE?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Spielberg temps rough cuts of his movies since the beginning of his career. I guess Williams learned to accept it since The Sugarland Express, so it's likely it's not a problem for him. I guess he uses it as a sort of mere guidance for feelings and maybe colors, but never bends down shamelessly to it.It's more than likely that Spielberg uses a piece from Zimmer here and there in his temp tracks, but frankly I don't think he orders to JW "Write something like that!". He trusts his old friend enough to let him free to write whatever it's best for the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I agree with Maurizio, that's how I picture their working relationship to be as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Reality check: what absolutely will not happen is that Spielberg tracks a vaguely comedic incidental scene with one of the central themes from POTC.The example cited is just a bumbling figure in the low basses. It's a very common thing which has nothing to do with Zimmer - of all people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 And I should add that I for one was not able to hear a Zimmer influence in that track of Tintin. I think this is clearly a case where people here wants to see more than it really is. Sure, there are unison strings and horns playing a minor-mode motif, but Zimmer hardly invented it. It's likely Spielberg temped the sequence with some Pirates of the Caribbean music and that eventually Williams took just a slight nod from it, but he then went on his own route and wrote a piece that's purely in his own style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Yes, that's exactly what I have been saying all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alejandro 26 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Spielberg is a Zimmer fan. Spielberg made Zimmer director of Dreamworks music. Sooooo....it's completely likely he tracks random parts of his movies with Pirates of the Caribbean.And Williams isn't Goldsmith or Herrmann. He wouldn't watch it and say "What the hell is this shit?" He'd passively go with it. Because he's 80. He's doing these movies because Spielberg is like PWETTY PWEASE?!It was Geffen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 But Spielberg has been a Zimmer enthusiast since Crimson Tide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 186 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Well, in Crimson Tide the sound was still fresh...(Funnily, there's a lift from Crimson Tide in Zimmer's better pirate score (Muppets)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STORM 1 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 terrable thought when williams retires speilberg will probably use zimmer! thats not good at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 i think there is hope still, he is aware or giacchino Giacchino, and even praises his work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacius 7 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Well, let's see,If by chance you went by John's house and you saw James Horner's car parked outside, heard bottles of wine opening indicating a drunken night,the sound of Pirates of The Caribbean blearing out and James and John pissing them selves laughing at the ridiculously idiotic score, then yes,he did watch it. Other wise, NO. Williams is too busy 99% of his time and wouldn’t spent his 1% listening and watching a film that would unjared him with synth based crappy music. My 2 cents.terrable thought when williams retires speilberg will probably use zimmer! thats not good at all.That isn’t going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 That old Spielberg quote about Crimson Tide seems to have haunted a lot of people's paranoia. It was a long time ago, he's probably changed his mind since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 He also made Zimmer the musical head of Dreamworks, so I think he still admires him. I'd imagine he'd pick Giacchino, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Williams by his own admission doesn't watch a lot of films outside the ones he scores. He most recently said this in the AFI's series The Art of Collaboration when he and Spielberg had picked out some of their favourite scenes that contained in their opinion great music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 terrable thought when williams retires speilberg will probably use zimmer! thats not good at all.No, I'm thinking Spielberg will either go straight to Giacchino as his go-to guy, or he'll bounce from composer to composer each film. That could include hiring Zimmer if it's appropriate for the film, but I don't really see them becoming regular collaborators.I wonder, though, when the time comes that Spielberg and Williams must part ways for whatever reason, if it would lead Spielberg to actually start making more films a la SPR and Munich. Featuring minimal or even no musical score. He seemed to be heading down that road, anyway (at least until Indy 4) but it would be interesting to see him further explore those avenues of storytelling that do not require music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I don't really see them becoming regular collaborators.Spielberg has an incredible habit of doing that, however, with almost everyone else he works with. So I wouldn't put it past him to latch onto another composer as his "go-to" guy, unless the experience is just terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinspace 8 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I believe first and foremost JW (and he differs considerably from JG and other composers who think some directors don't know shit about music) realises he needs something that 1. Works even at the expense of some originality. Remember this is film music not some olympic theme or something thats going down in the books of history - at the same time films are about entertainment and 90% of the public don't wan't understand or need complicated music -eg. Transformers (a booming horn chord theme). Tintin is great music crafted to a particularly high level but the reality is to the general public it is not catchy nor memorable in the way Zimmer scored POTC. In a way Zimmer/Badelt created a new sound and concept for POTC and they should be rewarded. Williams is great but holistically there is much influence of Korngold, Steiner etc and all the composers round the Golden Age in his work. So it's up to him to put as much of his unique voice and style in as possible. He doesn't do a bad job at all- just not as memorable as Zimmer's Pirates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Tintin is not memorable in the wayStar Wars,Raiders and Harry Potter wasDistinction instead of comparing it to PotC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Tintin is not memorable in the wayStar Wars,Raiders and Harry Potter wasIt sure is comparing what the composing for the film now days is. Or maybe without that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 FWIW, I only heard the Pirates influences in War Horse - specifically, while Joey is being brought home for the first time, and in "No Man's Land." Obviously, both passages are excellent. It's a little hard to say exactly how the similarities came about, but I think these stylistic choices work well in the film and sound great on album as well, having been filtered through Williams' own musical styles and skills.I heard nothing reminiscent of Pirates in Tintin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 People think the track "Sir Francis And The Unicorn" is Pirates-ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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