Lincoln SCORE Discussion thread

[Hlao-roo 389]

James Taylor singing, huh, that is sure to irritate some around here.

And Chris Martin trying to play trumpet, too. Unbelievable. This will be a mess.

[Damien F 1,742]

CC has posted his initial thoughts on Filmtracks. Posting from a cell so cant paste it but he gave it a solid 4 stars saying it is exactly the type of sound we expended.

[Erik Woods 555]

CC has posted his initial thoughts on Filmtracks. Posting from a cell so cant paste it but he gave it a solid 4 stars saying it is exactly the type of sound we expended.

Here you go!

I'm not sure when I'll get time, as with Skyfall, to fully review Lincoln, so here's my first round of notes:

1. Exactly what you'd expect from Williams: restrained and noble orchestral tones, somber at most times and exuding all his Americana traditions heard in scores from Born on the Fourth of July to The Patriot.

2. Rather short album (under an hour) highlighted by extensive solos, led by piano with little accompaniment. Trumpet and clarinet also take turns.

3. The rest of the orchestra sometimes gracefully weaves in and out of the solos, and these moments, as always with Williams, are the highlights.

4. The fuller ensemble moments are not substantial in length or dramatic weight compared to Williams' previous efforts. The opening track does have the pulsating whole notes on key to denote gravity, but such usage is rather rare elsewhere.

5. No chime-banging heroism appropriate for the subject. The most "heroic" moment comes at the end of "Equality Under the Law," a string crescendo of noble intent as expected.

6. Tortured violins in "Elegy" rise out of the French horns, which are present frequently to bolster the patriotism factor.

7. One interlude of electronic dissonance (standard Williams technique) in "The Southern Delegation and the Dream."

8. One wordless choral contribution in the middle of "Appomattox, April 9, 1865"... I wish there had been more of this type of material, though given Lincoln's "mystique," perhaps that would have been overkill.

9. Two jaunty cues of playfullness in "Getting Out the Vote" and "The Race to the House" for fiddles, banjo, and spirited percussion. The first of the two has beefy bass strings as well, reminding of Far and Away.

10. Standout unique cue is "Call to Muster and Battle Cry of Freedom," opening with snare and flute stereotype for marching to war and continuing into vocalized song for male voices first and then with females added.

11. Aside form the opening track, the "powerhouse" in the score is "The Peterson House and Finale," which rotates through Williams' themes in 11 minutes with significant attention provided to each.

12. The themes are long-lined, which means that they can be somewhat difficult to latch onto given their somber, slow performances. Don't expect anyone in the mainstream (or even most film score fans) to walk away humming a melody from this one.

Overall, thie score is EXACTLY what everyone expected to hear from Williams for the assignment. No surprises here. On the upside, this means that Williams has provided yet another tender, throughtful, and pleasantly fluid Americana score for our collections. On the downside, there is nothing new, other than the song, to distinguish Lincoln from the rest of his career. It's the kind of situation where we'll love and respect the score because it is yet another Williams work, a bonus at this point that brings back fond memories of the 1980's and 1990's rather than a transcendent individual work. That said, it still puts to shame most current composers' music, especially when you consider the maestro's writing methodology.

There is no doubt that Lincoln is a solid four-star score and will garner an Oscar nomination, but I doubt I'll listen to it frequently for entertainment. It does not have the large-scale romanticism of War Horse or the technical brilliance of Tintin, and its themes are a bit derivative of Williams' prior ideas. Put together a suite of "The People's House," "Getting Out the Vote," "Appomattox, April 9, 1865," and "The Peterson House and Finale" and you'll have the twenty most essential minutes.

More than anything else, this score defines the word nostalgia.

Christian

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Sounds a perfect score for me. I can feel great soloists, brilliant orchestra, something same than in SPR.

[KK 3,307]

By CC's description, it sounds like Lincoln will be exactly what I expected and I trust his judgement. All the same, I look forward to this score. It may not be a significant addition to his career, but it sounds like it'll be a great Americana score nonetheless.

Can't wait for Erik's preview of Lincoln!

[chinaismine 64]

James Taylor singing, huh, that is sure to irritate some around here.

I doubt that it's refering to James Taylor (is he ever called Jim?), rather I'd expect it to be this guy: http://www.gourd.com/taylorj.html

[Jay 37,368]

Be sure to check out my review of the soundtrack album now on the main page

[pete 907]

Thanks Jason! Just one question about the choir you mentioned in track 15, is it wordless choir?

And you missed a little bit in the review for that track... unless you're deliberately teasing us: "First there’s a , then a quick piano solo"

Thanks again for the review. I find it hard to get a grip on scores with short samples. My initial impressions are usually completely different from our I view a score later on. Reviews like yours are much more helpful!

[Matt C 454]

The samples sound amazing. There's just something in it that sounds pure and unforced compared to something like War Horse or The Patriot. I really think the Chicago Symphony Orchestra really added that extra umph that session musicians can't quite emulate.

I'm definitely buying this. Or asking for it as a Christmas gift.

[JamieC 13]

Really appreciated the review of the album, Jason.

I'm assuming the soundtrack also includes a note from Steven Spielberg about the material ?

[Jay 37,368]

I assume it does too, but I wasn't sent the booklet unfortunately

[JamieC 13]

Thanks, Jason.

[Jay 37,368]

I'll see if I can get Sony to send me a PDF.

BTW everyone, thanks for pointing out my booboo with track 15 in my review. I fixed that and a few other things in the review as well.

If anyone has anymore questions I'd be happy to answer them!

[Jay 37,368]

Apparently there's an FM radio station out of Houston that played the entire CD over the weekend:

http://www.classical917.org/articles/1350561394-John-Williams-Lincoln-Part-I.html

http://www.classical917.org/articles/1350562844-John-Williams-Lincoln---Part-II.html

I assume many people here have heard the broadcast. So what do you think about the CD?

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

So far I've heard the broadcast just one time, but I think it's truly wonderful.

It's okay if I had a soulful experience with the score here guys? Huh?

Will post a more detailed set of thoughts later. I want to listen to it a few more times before collecting all my thoughts.

[alicebrallice 134]

It's okay if I had a soulful experience with the score here guys? Huh?

[Brónach 1,302]

I had to take time to warm up to War Horse, but the effect of Lincoln on me seems to be instantaneous.

[Neimoidian 14]

Is it possible to listen to it now? Did anyone record it?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

Two dinosaurs eating a vagina. Duh.

...

[Brónach 1,302]

A vertebra.

[scissorhands 16]

Here is the first thorough review of the score in Spanish:

http://www.mundobso.com/es/verbandasonora.php?id=14216&fb_source=message

[Jay 37,368]

I just finished reading it and it's a wonderful review, pointing out some of the recurring themes in the score

[scissorhands 16]

I just finished reading it and it's a wonderful review, pointing out some of the recurring themes in the score

Yeah, right! I like the dissection of Elegy, so far my favorite piece from the samples.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Two dinosaurs eating a vagina. Duh.

...

Yeaaaaah...

[King Mark 3,631]

Apparently there's an FM radio station out of Houston that played the entire CD over the weekend:

http://www.classical...oln-Part-I.html

http://www.classical...---Part-II.html

I assume many people here have heard the broadcast. So what do you think about the CD?

The sound quality was so shit I stopped after the first track. Track 1 sounds like it will be really lovely on c.d.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

It's okay if I had a soulful experience with the score here guys? Huh?

It depends. Tell me what you see here:

Michael,

I think given how clingy you are about this whole soul thing here, your response to this ink blot, and given your soul-moving experience with this score...I grow even more suspicious about your mental well being!

Do you hear voices too?

Concerned,

Blume

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

Michael,

I think given how clingy you are about this whole soul thing here, your response to this ink blot, and given your soul-moving experience with this score...I grow even more suspicious about your mental well being!

Do you hear voices too?

Concerned,

Blume

You mean you hear them too? Oh thank goodness I'm not alone!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

This score is pretty disappointing.

[King Mark 3,631]

I hear the voices too

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

This score is pretty disappointing.

Yeah, no power anthem, no electric guitar there.

This score is brilliant.

[publicist 4,643]

Ahhh, the surprises never end....

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Like throwing pearls to the pigs.

[TownerFan 4,983]

I'll definitely stay out of the predictable fights over this...

I'll just say that for me it's a great score, genuine and heartfelt. Thank you , Maestro Williams.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I'll definitely stay out of the predictable fights over this...

Me too from now on.

[Incanus 5,715]

I'll just say that for me it's a great score, genuine and heartfelt. Thank you , Maestro Williams.

I very much share this sentiment.

[publicist 4,643]

I'll definitely stay out of the predictable fights over this...

Me too from now on.

I'll quote you on this.

[alicebrallice 134]

I'll just say that for me it's a great score, genuine and heartfelt. Thank you , Maestro Williams.

I very much share this sentiment.

so do I.

[Brónach 1,302]

I'm greatly expecting the release of the score.

[crumbs 14,317]

Is it likely the complete score? Ala Saving Private Ryan OST?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

This score is pretty disappointing.

Yeah, no power anthem, no electric guitar there.

Fuck off. This score is gonna be hailed genius by the fanboys, while it might be more of a retread than Tintin was.

[Jay 37,368]

Is it likely the complete score? Ala Saving Private Ryan OST?

I highly doubt it, the movie is 2 1/2 hours long and if you remove the concert arrangements from the CD you're left with under 50 minutes of underscore (and end credits)

[Brónach 1,302]

This score is pretty disappointing.

Yeah, no power anthem, no electric guitar there.

Fuck off. This score is gonna be hailed genius by the fanboys, while it might be more of a retread than Tintin was.

Sometimes I think your considerations of retread are completely aleatory, and in a way, fanboystic.

Even if something was indeed a retread, that isn't necesarily a bad thing. There's the possibility of improving, of seeing what an older, more experienced John Williams does, of making it better. Or of giving us more of something some happen to love. Haven't you ever had that feeling with music, that feeling of "I wish there was more music like this?". Because I've had it. Lots of times.

To me the samples sound gorgeous. I can't tell if the rest of the score will be as neat as the samples but if one openly dislikes such completely inoffensive, well sounding music, well, I don't know what to tell you. Does it make your head hurt of anything? Did they give you the Ludovico treatment with it?

[publicist 4,643]

Haven't you ever had that feeling with music, that feeling of "I wish there was more music like this?". Because I've had it. Lots of times.

It's the same debate filmscoredom has with James Horner. There will always be people who applaud even the gazillionst repeat of the BRAVEHEART love theme or the APOLLO 13 drumbeat just because THEY happen to like tranquil reading music or 4/4 steel drums or whatever.

For me, that's below any sound debate of what scores like LINCOLN ultimately are, namely an adieu to once interesting and hungry artists (more Spielberg than Williams, really, since Sir Steven is calling the cards here) who have retreated to the anesthetic comfort zone of Grandpa telling the same old stories again and again with all his cuddly nostalgic posturing in place, which provokes not so much the question if it is 'good' or 'bad' but more when the children will move out of the house because fun and games are to be had elsewhere.

So will i add 3 or 4 tracks to my Williams-collection? Certainly i will, right between the AMISTAD/PRIVATE RYAN/WAR HORSE/PATRIOT selections it ultimately resembles, anyway. But to claim there would be any excitement about either movie or score would be just a gross lie.

That, on the other hand, all the usual grail keepers and courtiers here again take offense at any critical word on redundant stuff like this again is ample proof why i never really wanted to be a FAN of anything.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Like throwing pearls to the pigs.

Conversely, like throwing shit to pigs.

Oink, oink, YYYYUUUMMMM!!!!! :D

[Brónach 1,302]

For me, that's below any sound debate of what scores like LINCOLN ultimately are, namely an adieu to once interesting and hungry artists (more Spielberg than Williams, really, since Sir Steven is calling the cards here) who have retreated to the anesthetic comfort zone of Grandpa telling the same old stories again and again with all his cuddly nostalgic posturing in place, which provokes not so much the question if it is 'good' or 'bad' but more when the children will move out of the house because fun and games are to be had elsewhere.

Where is elsewhere?

[TownerFan 4,983]

That, on the other hand, all the usual grail keepers and courtiers here again take offense at any critical word on redundant stuff like this again is ample proof why i never really wanted to be a FAN of anything.

Honestly, the same could be said on the other way round, i.e. people who never miss the occasion to roll their eyes and put labels like "fanboy", "reactionary", "hypocritical", "blind enthusiast", whenever someone shows a kind of spontaneous joyful (and sometimes naive) reaction to Williams' new music.

I'll frankly never understand why, in a place called "JWFan", people should be so divisive and always on the respective trenches when it comes to the simple fruition of new music written by John Williams. That's what keeps me at distance from engaging any kind of discussion here.

[publicist 4,643]

Where is elsewhere?

Musically? Or filmically?

[Brónach 1,302]

Musically.

Of these I've heard The Tree of Life and True Grit. I enjoyed True Grit even though I wish Burwell had come up with his own theme. I like The Tree of Life, specially some isolated tracks, but it doesn't make any particular reaction on me. It's better than the film.

What's about these that makes them better than, say, War Horse?

Why is something small like The Tree of Life fun in it's Desplat ways but something small like Lincoln in it's Williams ways, isn't, even if it's also really beautiful?

Oh, Beltrami. I absolutely love Hellboy and Soul Surfer. I'll check that out.

[crocodile 8,017]

I'm not in love, but I really like it. It's not really about what the score is, but the execution. I like this more subtle Americanaound (just like in SPR), as opposed to the tired Tim Morrison things (which I'm not a fan of). Nice "home-like" type of score, with some beautifully executed (if subtle) detail. I'm sure I'll get more out of it with the passing time. We'll see.

Karol