Josh500 1,615 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Now, depending on orchestration it can express awe, amazement, excitement, overwhelming happiness, a sense of staggering achievement ("Journey to the Island"). There's even a lullaby version that's meant to put people (maybe not us the viewers and listeners, but the characters in the movie) to sleep? But the version at the beginning of "Welcome to Jurassic Park" (the piano version).... what about that? It's thoughtful and slightly wistful, even a bit sad. Could it be that the melody itself, while eminently hummable and beautiful, doesn't evoke a particular emotion at all but that that's all, if not mostly, dependent on how it is orchestrated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Isnt that the case with most themes? Certainly in film music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Incanus 5,715 Posted November 27, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted November 27, 2016 The theme to my ears is first and foremost about wonder and awe of the dinosaurs. Williams of course gets a lot of different aspects out of it through the miracle of orchestration. Bespin, Cerebral Cortex, artguy360 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 27, 2016 Author Share Posted November 27, 2016 25 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Isnt that the case with most themes? Certainly in film music. Hmmm, yes. You might have a point! 25 minutes ago, Incanus said: The theme to my ears is first and foremost about wonder and awe of the dinosaurs. Williams of course gets a lot of different aspects out of it through the miracle of orchestration. Yes. I'm thinking (I don't know for sure, but maybe somebody can confirm this) that the main theme was first conceived when JW was scoring the brachiosaurus scene at the beginning. And that eventually became the theme for the park itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 I am uncertain. Because I have had little experience with emotion, I am unable to....articulate the sensation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 This one: Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 I've wondered for a long time exactly what the piano renditions are really telling us. My best guess is a sadness that it didn't work out for Hammond - he did this for kids, particularly his grandkids. If you include the dinosaur's howls, the crescendo in Journey to the Island I'd say is nearly as powerful as T-Rex Rescue. and that's one the most badass scoring moments ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 27, 2016 Author Share Posted November 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Selina Kyle said: I am uncertain. Because I have had little experience with emotion, I am unable to....articulate the sensation Exactly, how I feel. But I think it's a mixture of sadness, relief, disappointment, and dampened hope. Also, this theme is supposed to reflect the HUMANITY of the whole adventure, I think. It's what differentiates this movie from many other cheaper "monster movies." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 58 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: I've wondered for a long time exactly what the piano renditions are really telling us. My best guess is a sadness that it didn't work out for Hammond - he did this for kids, particularly his grandkids. If you include the dinosaur's howls, the crescendo in Journey to the Island I'd say is nearly as powerful as T-Rex Rescue. and that's one the most badass scoring moments ever. The lullaby setting of the hymn/dinosaurs theme at that moment is almost like a final quiet moment of reflection before the rousing end credits. We first see Hammond's cane and his despondent look, a man who has lost his dream. Then there is a sort of family feel that the piano evokes, intimate and quiet, which also ties to Alan Grant's plot thread of him initially hating kids and perhaps by extension being unsure of his relationship with Ellie and after experience in the park coming slowly to accept the idea of family and children as is evinced by the exhausted Lex and Tim sleeping beside him on the helicopter and Alan and Ellie exchanging those warm looks. Williams' music certainly enhances this feeling. Also there is such emotional release to the next phrase as the music blossoms when Grant sees the birds from the helicopter before it flies to the sunset to the magnificent variation on the JP hymn theme accompanied by bells and chimes. Will and Josh500 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 770 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 4 hours ago, Josh500 said: Now, depending on orchestration it can express awe, amazement, excitement, overwhelming happiness, a sense of staggering achievement ("Journey to the Island"). There's even a lullaby version that's meant to put people (maybe not us the viewers and listeners, but the characters in the movie) to sleep? But the version at the beginning of "Welcome to Jurassic Park" (the piano version).... what about that? It's thoughtful and slightly wistful, even a bit sad. Could it be that the melody itself, while eminently hummable and beautiful, doesn't evoke a particular emotion at all but that that's all, if not mostly, dependent on how it is orchestrated? "For myself I know that, as long as I can summarize my experience in words, I would certainly not make any music about it." (Gustav Mahler, 1896). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 1 minute ago, Score said: "For myself I know that, as long as I can summarize my experience in words, I would certainly not make any music about it." (Gustav Mahler, 1896). Good ol' Gustav. He was onto something here I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 1 minute ago, Incanus said: Also there is such emotional release to the next phrase as the music blossoms when Grant sees the birds from the helicopter before it flies to the sunset to the magnificent variation on the JP hymn theme accompanied by bells and chimes. Deliberatly less epic than the earlier version with full choir. Since the illusion of the park is now shattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 27, 2016 Author Share Posted November 27, 2016 There is something almost religious about the main theme. As if it's a bona fide miracle.... That first glimpse of the brachiosaurus is and remains an unforgettable experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 During the Brachiosaurus reveal, the choral element ensures that the theme achieves maximum Johnnygasm potential, one of a handful of times in his career oeuvre where Williams turned his 'grasp' of the symphonic handjob all the way up to 11, leaving me in a bit of a mess. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 The hymnal main theme is a stunt, though: as witnessed on countless recordings where they either get the tempo wrong or just emphasize the wrong notes/instrumental sections, it falls apart very easily. It's best incarnation still is the OST. The big fanfare is also hard to get right. Interestingly, these guys get it right with four hands: Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 You're right: I can't stand any other version in existence outside of the original score recording. If I went to a concert where JP was on the programme, I'd use it as an opportunity to go to the bathroom. Even the performance on his own Lost World score is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,195 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 7 hours ago, Incanus said: The theme to my ears is first and foremost about wonder and awe of the dinosaurs. That's what Williams said in the interview for the LSO concert. 59 minutes ago, publicist said: The hymnal main theme is a stunt, though: as witnessed on countless recordings where they either get the tempo wrong or just emphasize the wrong notes/instrumental sections, it falls apart very easily. The LSO and Strobel got it right yesterday. crumbs and Incanus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,368 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 8 hours ago, Josh500 said: Could it be that the melody itself, while eminently hummable and beautiful, doesn't evoke a particular emotion at all but that that's all, if not mostly, dependent on how it is orchestrated? 8 hours ago, Stefancos said: Isnt that the case with most themes? Certainly in film music. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 8 hours ago, Incanus said: The theme to my ears is first and foremost about wonder and awe of the dinosaurs. That is more or less how he answered the question in the interview during the LSO concert last night. It was about the wonder of dinosaurs... and also the wonder of modern filmmaking technology. It was about his reaction to the images as they were quite ready when he started scoring the film. Karol Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 It's a theme of wonder and awe, the kind that almost makes you want to tear up hearing it. Josh500 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 12 hours ago, Will said: It's a theme of wonder and awe, the kind that almost makes you want to tear up hearing it. Yes. In many ways, like the "Flying Theme" from E.T. as far as emotional impact goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 22 hours ago, Josh500 said: Could it be that the melody itself, while eminently hummable and beautiful, doesn't evoke a particular emotion at all but that that's all, if not mostly, dependent on how it is orchestrated? This is fascinating question. I'd posit that it's dependent on the harmonisation above all else, but other variables are at play too. A slow, fairly steady harmonic rhythm associated with hymns, a stepwise melodic line that's therefore lyrical and easy to sing, a melody that sits within the tessitura or comfortable range of both the average male and female voice, resolving and unresolving suspensions (the later imply quartal harmony) that suggest religious almost ascetic purity, and a reliance on hymnal cadences. It's really hard to isolate one of these. It's like removing a post from a beam, by taking it out you compromise the entire ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Teddy 3000 said: This is fascinating question. I'd posit that it's dependent on the harmonisation above all else, but other variables are at play too. A slow, fairly steady harmonic rhythm associated with hymns, a stepwise melodic line that's therefore lyrical and easy to sing, a melody that sits within the tessitura or comfortable range of both the average male and female voice, resolving and unresolving suspensions (the later imply quartal harmony) that suggest religious almost ascetic purity, and a reliance on hymnal cadences. It's really hard to isolate one of these. It's like removing a post from a beam, by taking it out you compromise the entire ceiling. I think the choir is meant to underline the sheer miracle (as well as ecstatic joy) of seeing real-life and moving dinosaurs for the first time.... It's not so much religious, as "miraculous." JW is very good (second to none, really) in not only scoring scenes and underlining them, but also in adding another dimension and slightly different meaning to them, thereby enhancing them. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 7 minutes ago, Josh500 said: I think the choir is meant to underline the sheer miracle (as well as ecstatic joy) of seeing real-life dinosaurs for the first time.... It's not so much religious, as "miraculous." I remember the reveal of the brachiosaurus has the direction "somewhere between pop and religioso." I don't mean religious in its most literal sense. I mean as a mood, a sensibility derived from the church tradition. Think of its as a wordless, secular humanist hymn to the natural world. Smeltington and Incanus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Teddy 3000 said: I remember the reveal of the brachiosaurus has the direction "somewhere between pop and religioso." I don't mean religious in its most literal sense. I mean as a mood, a sensibility derived from the church tradition. Think of its as a wordless, secular humanist hymn to the natural world. That is a good way of putting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, Teddy 3000 said: I remember the reveal of the brachiosaurus has the direction "somewhere between pop and religioso." I don't mean religious in its most literal sense. I mean as a mood, a sensibility derived from the church tradition. Think of its as a wordless, secular humanist hymn to the natural world. Yes, I get you. "Religioso" is a common musical direction: "A directive to perform a certain passage of a composition in a devout, solemn, or religious manner." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Loert 2,512 Posted November 28, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2016 I think that the Jurassic Park theme is essentially a hymn, or at least does a lot to create the impression of one. There are many factors which make me think this, but I think the biggest one is the usage of a verse - chorus - verse - chorus structure, which is not only exactly the structure you'd find in a hymn, but also a structure which Williams rarely uses for writing themes. The vast majority of his themes are written in chorus - "B section" - chorus structure. Star Wars, Raiders March, Imperial March, E.T., Superman, Somewhere in my Memory, Schindler's List, Across the Stars, Earthquake and Towering Inferno are all written in this structure. Hell, even the Island theme uses it. It's based on the very simple idea of stating a theme to the listener, giving them something new for a while, then bringing them back home again (in fact, I'm sure there's a proper name for it...). But a structure like the one used in the JP theme is much less common. The only other examples I can think of are "Hymn to the Fallen" from SPR and "The Reunion" from A.I., although neither of those has a 'hymnal structure' which is quite as prominent as the one in the JP theme. In addition to the structure, factors which augment the religiosity of the music are: The very first chord progression you hear in the theme is I - IV - I, which is also known as the Amen cadence, because it is the progression which is often used to accompany the "Amen" sung at the end of certain hymns in church. In other words, the audience listening to the JP theme subconsciously associates it with holiness, right from the outset. The choir, which obviously conveys the idea that this is a piece of music to be sung. But what is particularly interesting is how Williams delays the entrance of the choir by a full four bars. As far as I can tell this has three basic effects: 1) it makes the choir more noticeable than if it had been singing from the very beginning, because its effect as an addition to the orchestral texture is emphasised; 2) it creates a sense of momentum building up to the first chorus and 3) you get the impression that the situation is difficult to grasp at first, or even beyond the capabilities of the human mind to understand, so that they can only stand in awe of the situation (represented by the melody, let's say). It might also be interesting to consider that the choir never sings the melody, they only form a harmonic accompaniment which vaguely follows the melody at certain points. This is another way of treating them as "onlookers" to the situation who, at the same time, are trying to come to terms with what they're experiencing. Obviously this has parallels to a church congregation singing a hymn as an act of praise as well as a certain humility towards God. The pure power of the music at certain points, particularly when the Brachiosaurus stamps on the ground. The music is clearly meant to overwhelm the listener with its blaring horns, bells and timpani. Now compare this to the ending of Mahler's Resurrection Symphony. You've got that same sense of build-up, culminating in a huge swash of sound; but pay particular attention to the bells. Bells are often associated with churches and cathedrals, and here in both pieces they are used to create the sensation that you are in some sort of huge temple (or perhaps in Heaven itself, at least in the case of the Mahler!). By the way, note how the big swash of sound in the Mahler is made up of a string of Amen cadences, which is in fact similar to what is done in the JP theme, only that Williams uses a string of I - ii - I's, where ii is the parallel minor of IV! In the choruses, you might expect the strings to play the melody along with the rest of the orchestra. In fact, what they do is play chords in the high range. This creates a "sheen" of sound, almost as if the music were bathed in sunlight. I admit that at first I thought this was bad orchestration, but I think what Williams is doing here is giving the melody a space. Had the strings played the chorus melody, the theme would in fact have been too melodic and not as atmospheric. OK, so with that said, the final question is: what is the hymn actually about, if not God? Well, I think that in the context of the film, Williams is trying to bring about in humans a sense of religious awe and beauty with regards to nature, or "Mother Nature". And I think this applies to all nature, not just dinosaurs. And, really, there's nothing stopping you from extrapolating this to God, if you believe that He is the creator of the Universe. The point is, Williams is trying to connect the listener to nature in a very deep way, one which makes humans feel small and in awe of the dinosaurs and, by extension, nature in general (you might say). Anyway, here is what Williams himself has to say on that scene: Quote What I tried to do with the music is to create a sense of wonder and maybe even a slight sense of religiosity...almost as though you were entering a cathedral. I remember that particular musical moment as being one that was an opportunity for the orchestra to make a beautiful statement, and to create a sense that these animals were magnificent. By the way, his expression marking for the Jurassic Park theme in the orchestral score is "Reverentially". If there was only one word which summed up the JP theme, I suppose this would be it. Will, Smeltington, Muad'Dib and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Jurassic Park Hymn Theory, by @loert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,507 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I cannot contribute much in terms of sheer musicology, but I do know something about musical application. The main theme (both parts) does indeed have a religioso quality; in fact, I count it among my 'religious sound' favourites, even if it's a more fanfaric version and doesn't have the kind of pastoral, Vaughan Williams-like sound that he nurtures in the more steretypical examples. It plays on many strings and serves many functions -- awe of science, awe of nature, awe of adventure, awe of spirituality. On a superficial level, it also has that kind of lofty, 'weightless' quality that likewise defines the "Flying" theme in E.T. Furthermore, it has a slightly melancholic quality, which may very well underline the ethical wrongdoings of the science in question. But JURASSIC PARK is first and foremost a visceral movie that relies on the constant ebb and flow between action setpieces and engrossing mood, it's an 'experience'-based film just as much as it is a narrative one. So Williams' music doesn't only underline the narrative flow, but also this aspect -- much like Horner's AVATAR. It's about 'envelopping' the spectator in a universe just as much as it is telling a story. So, for example, what seems like perfunctory suspense music (kitchen sequence, raptor sequence, T-rex sequence etc.) is about creating rhythm and 'corporal pulse'. Smeltington and Josh500 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 40 minutes ago, Thor said: Furthermore, it has a slightly melancholic quality. Indeed. That's what makes it so effective in the later piano renditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Thor said: I cannot contribute much in terms of sheer musicology, but I do know something about musical application. The main theme (both parts) does indeed have a religioso quality; in fact, I count it among my 'religious sound' favourites, even if it's a more fanfaric version and doesn't have the kind of pastoral, Vaughan Williams-like sound that he nurtures in the more steretypical examples. It plays on many strings and serves many functions -- awe of science, awe of nature, awe of adventure, awe of spirituality. On a superficial level, it also has that kind of lofty, 'weightless' quality that likewise defines the "Flying" theme in E.T. Furthermore, it has a slightly melancholic quality, which may very well underline the ethical wrongdoings of the science in question. But JURASSIC PARK is first and foremost a visceral movie that relies on the constant ebb and flow between action setpieces and engrossing mood, it's an 'experience'-based film just as much as it is a narrative one. So Williams' music doesn't only underline the narrative flow, but also this aspect -- much like Horner's AVATAR. It's about 'envelopping' the spectator in a universe just as much as it is telling a story. So, for example, what seems like perfunctory suspense music (kitchen sequence, raptor sequence, T-rex sequence etc.) is about creating rhythm and 'corporal pulse'. Very well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 The whole journey to the island sequence is also superbly musically choregraphed and thus it feels it never misses a beat of the scene while also never cutting the natural flow and progression of the music. Especially the Dinosaurs cue (the hymn section of the sequence) is a marvel as it catches the on-screen movements of the brachiosaurus, the awe struck feelings of the characters and celebrates this miracle of science and nature that is on display and I feel it never falters. I mean Williams pauses to catch the slow almost dignified walk of the brachiosaurus, the looks of Alan and Ellie and even finds that perfect spot to underscore so fluidly the tremor as the dinosaur reaches the for leaves and rises to its hindlegs and then comes back down before the chorus comes in full of that religioso majesty. Josh500 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted November 30, 2016 Author Share Posted November 30, 2016 On 28/11/2016 at 11:15 PM, Thor said: I cannot contribute much in terms of sheer musicology, but I do know something about musical application. The main theme (both parts) does indeed have a religioso quality; in fact, I count it among my 'religious sound' favourites, even if it's a more fanfaric version and doesn't have the kind of pastoral, Vaughan Williams-like sound that he nurtures in the more steretypical examples. It plays on many strings and serves many functions -- awe of science, awe of nature, awe of adventure, awe of spirituality. On a superficial level, it also has that kind of lofty, 'weightless' quality that likewise defines the "Flying" theme in E.T. Furthermore, it has a slightly melancholic quality, which may very well underline the ethical wrongdoings of the science in question. But JURASSIC PARK is first and foremost a visceral movie that relies on the constant ebb and flow between action setpieces and engrossing mood, it's an 'experience'-based film just as much as it is a narrative one. So Williams' music doesn't only underline the narrative flow, but also this aspect -- much like Horner's AVATAR. It's about 'envelopping' the spectator in a universe just as much as it is telling a story. So, for example, what seems like perfunctory suspense music (kitchen sequence, raptor sequence, T-rex sequence etc.) is about creating rhythm and 'corporal pulse' Very well said! Yes, the Theme from Jurassic Park even includes the music for the brachiosaurus getting back down on all four legs. I always found that (musical) moment the most exhilarating. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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